I wouldn't recommend masonry to any one.

Thank you for your heart felt story. I'm sorry you were betrayed. I doubt that all Masons are that disloyal, there wouldn't be any Masons if that were true. I think this relates to the old saying "You can count your true friends on the fingers of one hand." Such is life and such are people.

Just to lighten the mood, I leave you with a favorite quote from Groucho Marx:

Please accept my resignation. I don’t care to belong to any club that will have me as a member.

Whoa is me....

I joined the Freemasons last year. I worked for months to get my Master Mason. After one meeting I have not been back. It's just creepy. The final ritual is pure death cult BS!

What are these mysteries of the letter "G"? It's quasi-philosophical occultism under the guise of a fraternity.

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix

Originally posted by W3RLIED2
reply to post by danman23

 

I was refering to masonic recognitions, grips and words. Nothing that I would reveal to a non mason.

I am having problems with my lodge but no mason would ever reveal the grips or words of a master mason.

[edit on 29-11-2009 by W3RLIED2]

I won't ask you those words. but please tell me.. why is it so important to keep this secret? Other than just you giving your word not to tell...

Are those things they taught you so secret and powerful and important that no one else but a Mason can ever know about them?

Any of the Masons here may answer this question. Why is it so important to keep secret?

Im guessing because non masons would be able to pick masons out of the crowd as they greeted each other, spoke to each other, helped each other up.. etc etc. Why that would matter is beyond me.

reply to post by RuneSpider


Read the Scottish Petition in my previous thread again will you.

The "Black" man and the "Christian" have not taken a secret oath to protect one another have they? An oath so secret and powerful you can't talk about it even after you leave. THAT is the concern, do I worry about Judges being members of a knitting circle? nope. How about leader of boy scouts, nope thats all good too.

Just the secret cult of back scratchers

I can go on for days if you like of what is ok and is not a conflict of interest but I get the feeling I am talking to cleverbot in this thread.

Seriously don't drag religion or colour into it, that's sad.

Originally posted by Jordan_The_Maori
S & F mate, interesting thread.

It's horrible that the people you called 'brothers' would do such things behind your back.

I also congradulate you for having the self control for not beating the living Sh*t out of the person who called your fiance a whore. To be perfectly honest, if I was you, I would have beat his ass down right then and there for his disrespect.

At least your out of the main game now man.

Good luck in the long run.

To be fair though you can't expect one bad lodge to mean they are all like this.
You get in-fighting and bickering in any group usually. Not as bad as that but it's always there on one level or another.
Individual 'bad' masons are one thing to isolate and deal with, I wouldn't let it offend you too deeply as a whole though...

reply to post by JohnPhoenix


The reason i choose not to reveal them is because i took a solemn oath over a Bible. That is a promise between myself, God, and the order. I don't break promises especially not one thats as important to me as an obligation i took on a Holy Bible.

The problems i have with my lodge were published in my OP because I felt that the readership of most ATS members is mostly constructive weather it's criticizm or support for any given toipic. Today the topic happens to be my personal experience with a lodge of masons.

reply to post by Violater1


I understand your skepticism. As i said in the OP at the very top, this article is my personal experience with a lodge of masons, along with my opinions of the situation I'm in right now. I'm not pleading for sympathy, nor am i trying to belittle the order as a whole. In my personal experiences over the last year or so I've been put in situations with brothers that i never thought would happen. And in my very personal and honest opinion at this very moment in time i could not with a clear conscience recommend a man for masonry. Yes i know the rules say 2b1 ask 1 but after a man asks that question he still need a recommendation, a vouch if you will, to become a mason. I will not do it.

reply to post by danman23


That video is hilarious.

Originally posted by Bunker or Bust
reply to post by RuneSpider

 

Read the Scottish Petition in my previous thread again will you.

The "Black" man and the "Christian" have not taken a secret oath to protect one another have they? An oath so secret and powerful you can't talk about it even after you leave. THAT is the concern, do I worry about Judges being members of a knitting circle? nope. How about leader of boy scouts, nope thats all good too.

Just the secret cult of back scratchers (sic).

I can go on for days if you like of what is ok and is not a conflict of interest but I get the feeling I am talking to cleverbot in this thread.

Seriously don't drag religion or colour into it, that's sad.

Exsqueeze me, but,
Have you ever heard about The Good Samaritan.
Christians don't have to take an Oath to protect one another.
Although we are not perfect, The Lord Jesus Christ instructed us to Love one another. To forgive is to be forgiven.

reply to post by Violater1


Key part of the sentence was "have not" taken an oath which you confirm you don't have too, so thanks but your point was? So now your going to tell me that Christian's look after only Christian's are you? That kind of goes against the good book itself does it not? Not wishing to derail so lets leave it at that shall we.. As I said please don't bring religion to my comments.

Been trying to spell it out and if you look at some of the comments in the thread there are clues. Brotherhood before honour, charity and all the other stuff they go on about. Hence a Judge can't be a Mason and be objective all of the time.

Originally posted by Bunker or Bust
No offense intended at all, personally I dont feel a Judge should be a Freemason at all due to a conflict of interest. I think that a Judge has a position to uphold the law fairly and justly without any outside influence. That cannot happen when he is a Freemason, because if faced with a Mason or family member he has to offer "aid and protection" was it? Oh but the law of the land comes first does it?

What about collegiate fraternities? Many of their rituals are based on Masonic ritual and will incorporate oaths to help another Brother in case of distress. Should all fraternal relations become mandatory declarations prior to sitting on the bench?

That law seemed extremely paranoid and Orwellian. People constantly talk of the New World Order, if there is one, this is the type of laws they would want on the books, goodbye privacy, hello forced admissions.

They set you up, for the ultimate test and you failed. It was a test of faith to the order. Something along the lines of how far you would go. It was meant to be something bigger than your wife and they wanted to see your reactions.

It is a fake ceremonial test, that shows the worth of brothers to the true knowledge. You failed.



[edit on 29-11-2009 by DarkCyrus]

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


Yes it should be declared, a judge has to be above such things surely?

The law is paranoid and orwellian, Patriot Act hello?!? Think you missed the boat there.

reply to post by W3RLIED2

That is a goofy video huh? What rite are you in? I dont have a problem with most Free Masons.. I mean, my Grandpa was. Just something about the Scottish Rite. I stumbled upon them and figured out some dirty things that they "may" be doing... or at least a part of the doings. Read this thread I put together almost a year ago.
The Initial Bailout and the Connections to Rockefellers, Freemasons, 12/21/2012 and the End Times

I really did not try to make these connection.. it just happened.

reply to post by W3RLIED2




So basically you don't like the Mason's because your experience exposed them for what they really are: Human beings. Humans full of all the little annoying things most humans have or succumb to.

Great.

Given in your entire dissertation slamming the Masons not once did you suggest "ymmv" or that they're simply human beings, I would think that you were never right for the Masons, and would question your motives for ever having joined them to begin with- you do not seem like the sort of person who would make a good Mason.

It also suggests you don't hold an office job, or a job wherein you work with several hundred people in teams on projects, usually in modular furniture. Otherwise you'd be more than accustomed to people gossiping, and know how to handle it. Further, that your fiance chose to display her tattoos at Mason functions shows considerable lack of taste.

...but see, that's based upon my experiences in the sort of society where I dwell. You probably live in some rural area, and accordingly, were initiated into a rural lodge. Right?

People are people- making one a Master Mason, the President of the U.S., an Eagle Scout (which I am) changes very little about who we are- they're titles. People often expect that someone with a title act in a certain manner, with a certain air, and in many cases they're not wrong in their feelings, but often, too, people (such as in your case) forget that the society in which they and their peers come from dictate their mores.

In short: you're crying over nothing. Grow up, grow out.

reply to post by W3RLIED2


I think you were caught up in what I call a "Group Consciousness", it exists anywhere you have a group and it can be good or bad. I've had these experiences at work before I retired, these people were the nicy nice guys and suck-ups, it didn't matter if you screwed up the job as long as you were a 'nicy nice suck-up' your job would be safe. Back in the 70's I thought of joining the VFW, these people looked down at Vietnam War Vets, you weren't going anywhere unless you were a WWII or Korean War Vet. After a few years they realized the membership was dying off and started sucking up to Nam Vets, these people could 'stick it' as far as I was concerned. There's a group of retirees I have coffee with 3-4 times a week in the morning, if one member of the group doesn't show up they could very well start talking about him and it can be good or bad, just like a bunch of gossipy old women. I caught this 'Group Consciousness' right off the bat and have never revealed much at all about my personal self and I'm always vague when asked questions about myself and it's fun imagining the frustration in their minds. Sure there are groups out there that do have a good 'Group Consciousness' you'll find compatible with your but they may be hard to find. I remember something an old friend told me many years ago and I've never forgotten it, "In your lifetime you will be able to count the number of true friends on one hand", I've never forgotten that and at 68 years of age I've found that to be true.

I'm not a Mason, my Grandfather was a 32nd or 33rd degree (don't remember which) but from what others have told me he was in a fine lodge and the members were great people. If I were in your shoes I would find another lodge that adheres to the true tradition of Masonry.

Originally posted by Bunker or Bust
Yes it should be declared, a judge has to be above such things surely?

So then, where does it stop and who decides when and if it does?

reply to post by DarkCyrus


If that truly is the case, which hasn't crossed my mind before, than it's a sad way to test loyalty. Lets take our newly raised mason and bash him and his old lady and see how he reacts.... Seems a little far fetched. I'm more inclined to believe that the members have nothing better to do than sit around and stir the proverbial pot. It would be much more upsetting if what you say has any truth to it, but i don't think thats the case here, or else there would be a lot more pissed off masons in the world.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


I am talking about Judges and to be honest Political representives, thats where it stops because that is the correct level of scrutiny that those roles should have.

Stop fear mongering

Sounds like highschool to me. Here we are thinking that the Masons are guardians of the republic and what not(Historically they are) and they just turn out to be a bunch of overage highschool kids with a penchant for gossip.

I feel for ya.

[edit on 11/29/2009 by Rockpuck]