I wouldn't recommend masonry to any one.

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posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 11:40 AM
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I understand your point. The rituals of this world reinforce the master/slave wheel. They seek freeDOM, the ruthless manipulation and domination of the other in a bloodlust as if it is some sort of virtue. Get people running in circles, always ending up where they started. Weave a drama for them to mindlessly follow, and they shall have "character" in resolving your drama. Diabolical. This system inevitable leads to the craftiest, most ruthless dominator and manipulator rising to the top of the pyramid. It is an upside down matrix if you will, one in which the lesser are made the greater and the greater are made the lesser. The animal alphas rule in all their vainglory while stomping on the spiritual alphas. However, the animal alphas are now falling, mortally wounded, and the spiritual alphas are prepared to soar for the good of all.

It is all beyond good in the end, as the second that androgynous goat (it is metaphor, people) sits on the throne, it is game over. But the game ends with the reconciliatory spirit of what you might call Christ sweeping the world. Bless.




posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 11:42 AM
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Interesting post, and I totally agree w/ you, if someone was talkin smack on my lady not a thing in the world could stop me from defending her.



posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 11:46 AM
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I am shocked by this as have only ever been offered friendship, help and support by my lodge and other lodges as I moved from Glasgow to Edinburgh. I hope there is other lodges in your area that you could try as this seems to be a terrible lodge that has lost its way, that is taking you at face value. On the other hand you seem to have a poor choice in bars and if I was taking my girlfriend to the lodge and she had tatoo`s I would ask her to cover them up out of respect so you seem to be at fault as well.



posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 11:50 AM
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reply to post by W3RLIED2
 


The Masonic Lodge is a JOKE !

My Grandfather and my father are 33rd degree Masons and after reading material on the internet and from a book "exposing" the lodge, I have never had an inkling to join even though one of my best friends did.

Your problem with the lodge brothers is not uncommon. They act like a bunch of little gossiping girls without a backbone to stand up for what's right, ethical and moral.



posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 11:53 AM
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Originally posted by Bunker or Bust
It is things like this described in the following article which give those slithering Mason's as you put it massive room to play god with other peoples lives. So tell me this, if you know there is wrong and corruption in you society why dont you remove it. Unlike the real world you can very easily..

Justice for all? or Just Mason's

If nothing underhand is happening then why the requirement for secrecy?

So when a judge rolls over a non Mason in favor of a brother and flies in the face of justice, can you explain how that is better for mankind? And don't say it doesn't go on because I personally know it does! Alot!
Except your own article says there was no proof of such favoritism taking place within the courts. Just because you want to tattoo serial numbers on all the Jews because you're afraid of them doesn't mean they're conspiring to get you. Oh wait, substitute "register" for "tattoo" and "Freemasons" for "Jews". There. My mistake. Sorry for the typo.



posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 11:55 AM
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Originally posted by Evisscerator
My Grandfather and my father are 33rd degree Masons and after reading material on the internet and from a book "exposing" the lodge, I have never had an inkling to join even though one of my best friends did.
Sorry your relationship with your elders is so strained. Is it because they are Masons that you think they're buffoons? Or do you have other issues with them for other reasons? I'm guessing that best friend who joined also became instantly evil, changed his life radically and now eats babies for breakfast?



posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 12:12 PM
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reply to post by W3RLIED2
 


W3RLIED2, YOU have the power to change the nature of your lodge. While my first instinct to your post was, find another group of guys to hang out with, upon further reflection I'd recommend an alternate route: you're younger than these guys. They won't live forever, and if you don't do something stupid like letting your temper get the better of you, you'll outlive them. So who among your friends and coworkers would make good Masons? You don't have to invite them to join, but you can certainly invite them to dinner. You can say "Hey, did you know I'm a Mason" and give the sales pitch of what living on the level means to you. Maybe some might want a petition, maybe some won't. But it seems to me that if the lodge grew with more of your own peers, that in the end, some will take officers' positions, and as the old men die off, you're in a perfect position to make it YOUR lodge. It just takes patience and thick skin.

Or heck, continue to pay your dues, or get an endowed membership, and just not go for a few years. Let the lodge change on its own and check in on it from time to time. An endowed membership in a Blue Lodge is the ultimate trump card... so long as you don't commit any Masonic offenses that would have you stripped of membership, your Grand Lodge has your money and there's nothing anyone can do to kick you out.



posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 12:29 PM
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reply to post by JoshNorton
 


I've thought about what to do with this situation for a long time, JN. I honestly believe that the best way to solve this is for me to leave this current lodge. Am I still open to joining another lodge at some point in the future??? I'm leaning towards yes. I never once said any where in my posts (not to be confused) that i have problems with all masons. My beef is with my lodge brothers and thats where it will end. The best course of action is to put some distance between me and them. Not physical distance but it's time for me to leave this lodge.

I know myself better than any one does, my fience is a close second but i even surprise her sometimes. With the emotional toll all of this has taken on me it's the best decision.

I know that I'm not perfect, but who is? The only perfect man was nailed to a cross 2000 years ago. I know that when you read about a bar scrap it seems out of line but please believe me when i say the situation left me little to no choice. And i don't leave friends behind, let alone the fact that he's a brother. In my mind that's all the more reason to see that less harm came to him than me. I just didn't realize that it come back around to kick me in the chest with BS.



posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 12:41 PM
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Masons, Triad, Mafia...

Just a gang of bored, rich people.



posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 12:46 PM
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reply to post by JoshNorton
 


Excuess me?!? It's called a conflict of interest, if your not seeing it then maybe the following petition that went to the Scottish Parliament will make it clearer for you. Now either you take your oath as sacred, or its a pile of the steaming stuff so which is it?

Petition

The reason there is no "proof", is because it is a group of men in positions of power or wealth. Both of those things are well known to make problems go away. You know as well as I do Mason's are everywhere and look after their own at the cost of others if required and will not stand against each other. Might have a bit of a quite word in the old lodge but no harm no foul, hey old chap!

So rather than in a round about way of accussing me of being a Nazi, answer my original question please. (That was offensive by the way)

The question which I might add is fair and reasonable in the context to freemason's within the legal system.

"A Masons wife and child shall be treated as ones own always by all Brothers. We as Masons should never have doubts about this. We all carry the knowledge that in a time of crisis that a Brother can be counted on to protect and give aid to our loved ones."

Now answer me this, does that come at a cost to a non Mason?

The OP has a chance to get out before getting sucked in to deep and compromising a good view on life, I suggest he take it.

PS: By the way secret organisation meeting at static "lodges" not a real great idea that.. What bright spark come up with that one! Oh and if its not a "secret" organisation and only there to do good for mankind then why not be proud of membership and declare it? Your honour..



posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 01:07 PM
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Originally posted by Bunker or Bust
Excuess me?!? It's called a conflict of interest, if your not seeing it then maybe the following petition that went to the Scottish Parliament will make it clearer for you. Now either you take your oath as sacred, or its a pile of the steaming stuff so which is it?
Shows you how well you know that oath... We "agree to be a peaceful subject, and cheerfully to conform to the laws of the country in which you reside". Felons do not make good Masons. Criminal Masons brought before a Masonic judge would probably get a harsher penalty because they have violated their oath by being bad citizens.


So rather than in a round about way of accussing me of being a Nazi, answer my original question please. (That was offensive by the way)
What, and asking an arbitrary subclass of people to register their identities with the government isn't offensive? What good is it for the judges to register their membership if you don't also ask EVERY SINGLE PERSON who appears before that judge? Every barrister, lawyer, bailiff, witness, accuser, defendant. Sounds like a lot of work to ask that question of every person who walks in the courtroom. Better to just brand all the Masons or force them by law to wear a colored scrap of cloth pinned to the outside of their clothes, no?


"A Masons wife and child shall be treated as ones own always by all Brothers. We as Masons should never have doubts about this. We all carry the knowledge that in a time of crisis that a Brother can be counted on to protect and give aid to our loved ones."

Now answer me this, does that come at a cost to a non Mason?
Why should it? Most of the charity money we raise goes to families of non-Masons...

[edit on 11/29/2009 by JoshNorton]



posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 01:14 PM
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Here are my thoughts after reading the OP.

1. Is he being tested?
2. Is this how they are trying to force him out of the lodge?
3. Was sticking up for the old man in the barroom fight and then being shamed for it a testerone thing on the part of the old man feeling ashamed that a young 'buck' felt that he was too weak to stand up for himself? I know several old men who take it as an affront for anyone to think that they aren't still 'man enough' to stand up for themselves (even if they are obviously physically weaker than they feel).


[edit on 29-11-2009 by gazerstar]



posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 01:24 PM
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Hey W3RLIED2,


First off... sounds like those guys are all pricks. Screw them.
Secondly.. Can you explain this?

"should I ever see certain signs or hear certain words I will respond the way any other mason would"

What signs or words? and how are you supposed to respond?



[edit on 29-11-2009 by danman23]



posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 01:36 PM
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reply to post by danman23
 


I was refering to masonic recognitions, grips and words. Nothing that I would reveal to a non mason.

I am having problems with my lodge but no mason would ever reveal the grips or words of a master mason.

[edit on 29-11-2009 by W3RLIED2]



posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 01:36 PM
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When I read the opening post I could not help but think about a joke regarding an Old Bull and a Young Bull and a group of nearby cows that ATS probably would not enjoy me repeating on its hallowed pages.

I have never belonged to a secret society though I did once belong to a 20/30 Club Chapter and even served as the Chapter’s President for a spell. I would add that distinction was thrust upon me because most of the active members were past members over the age of 39 and could not be President as a result.

I believe that it’s safe to say most fraternal groups are about time honored traditions being handed down from older/elder generations to newer/younger generations to carry on those traditions.

As a person getting a bit long in the tooth myself I can tell you I worry about the youth of today. I worried about the youth of my day too and as a direct result often sought out mentors who were much older, more experienced and wiser than I to learn the ins and outs of life and business.

It is a rarity and an oddity when a younger person chooses to learn through other means than hitting their head against the wall and trial and error. Most people insist on finding out the hard way as did most of the older people who having found out the hard way themselves who then make excellent mentors for those younger people who realize that it hurts to ram your head into a brick wall and that errors more often than not are things that can be avoided with a bit of patience, self discipline and wise counsel.

It takes a certain leap of faith though to look to ones elders for guidance on navigating some of life’s most treacherous shoals. In part because the shoals being navigated are often previously uncharted ones for the young person and might not even seem treacherous or fraught with dangers at first, second or third glance. Having not sailed them before it’s not always possible for the novice to spot or even imagine unseen and unforeseen dangers.

So when an older person who has been there, done that, and bought a few t-shirts offers their navigational advice based on having sailed those waters or recognizing what otherwise seemingly harmless signs mean and begin to offer advice or explain it can be hard to accept that what lurks out there really does lurk out there since you aren’t seeing it with your own two eyes and have never experienced it before.

Chances are most of what is frustrating you are born out of this discrepancy in perspective and appearance. Those older members often see the potential pitfalls in some of your actions and outlooks that you don’t yet see. They are likely to be a bit chagrined you don’t see more benefit in their counsel and previous experiences and you are likely more than a little bit put off as you seek to prove to yourself via first proving it to them that you are every bit as intelligent and capable as they are. In all fairness you likely are every bit as intelligent or capable as they are but are simply not as experienced in some of the world’s humorous and deceptive tricks and ways as they are.

You want to prove something to them that you imagine they don’t know because of their age and their lifestyles. That there are areas of life and the universe that it would be wise to defer to your council and have faith in your decisions.

They are trying to prove to you through comity and fraternal bonds that it’s wise to heed your elders in some circumstances they feel they can’t easily broach with you because of your own self assuredness and headstrong ways and belief in yourself.

You both appear to be struggling towards that endeavor and you are inclined to believe the whole process is dysfunctional as a result.

I don’t know if I would throw the baby out with the bath water, and I am not going to suggest to you how I would have personally likely viewed the instances you have cited as examples in a very different way. After all the post is about your perspectives and feelings not mine.

I will say this that my humble ability to take on faith instruction and guidance from older far more experienced people who first gained my trust and respect based on their overall knowledge, experiences and wisdom has been an invaluable aide to me throughout the course of my lifetime and has paid huge dividends in accepting such peoples advice on faith when my own perspective would have caused me to take a very different approach to situations and circumstances.

It has led to me being wise beyond my years which is why I now have to ask you…why are we pretending today that there are widespread dysfunctional elements at play within the lower ranks of Rome’s Knights?

You guys are such kidders!



[edit on 29/11/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]



posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 01:42 PM
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Originally posted by W3RLIED2
reply to post by danman23
 


I was refering to masonic recognitions, grips and words. Nothing that I would reveal to a non mason.

I am having problems with my lodge but no mason would ever reveal the grips or words of a master mason.

[edit on 29-11-2009 by W3RLIED2]


I won't ask you those words. but please tell me.. why is it so important to keep this secret? Other than just you giving your word not to tell...

Are those things they taught you so secret and powerful and important that no one else but a Mason can ever know about them?

Any of the Masons here may answer this question. Why is it so important to keep secret?



posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 01:43 PM
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[deleted]

[edit on 29-11-2009 by RuneSpider]



posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 01:46 PM
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reply to post by JoshNorton
 


Sorry but its a conflict of interest, common sense and logic is all that is needed to work that out.

"What, and asking an arbitrary subclass of people to register their identities with the government isn't offensive?"

No offense intended at all, personally I dont feel a Judge should be a Freemason at all due to a conflict of interest. I think that a Judge has a position to uphold the law fairly and justly without any outside influence. That cannot happen when he is a Freemason, because if faced with a Mason or family member he has to offer "aid and protection" was it? Oh but the law of the land comes first does it?

As I said first hand experience, and no I am not a criminal in any way shape or form. But I do know a criminal that walked away laughing, but you know how it goes don't ya brother


Oh and of course you help non Mason's just not as much I would suggest based on your own publication, I might be out of line with that but a ten second look on the internet found something. But hey you like to paint a picture, so can I


And I quote:- "The Housing Corporation would not allow MCH to restrict its residents to those qualified through Freemasonry, and at present well under half the residents have had no previous connection with the Craft."

Would NOT allow, which would suggest that was the aim then which was refused.

Masonic Housing Association

I gotta keep away from these Masonic threads, puts me right off my dinner


PS: Oh and OP, if you have anything more to do with this group then you are actually the one showing a lack of honour to your good lady. The fact that you now state you would even consider going back means the brotherhood is more important than honour. A point I have been trying to make so thanks for that. If it had been me, I would have got up and walked out and never given them a second thought again.

[edit on 29-11-2009 by Bunker or Bust]



posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 01:59 PM
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reply to post by Bunker or Bust
 


Would a black judge sentencing a black man be a conflict of interest? Or a Christian Judge sentencing a Christian man?

From the way you present your opinion, I would think it would be, as a Christian is taught to forgive, and of course, black men look out for brothers.



posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 02:08 PM
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Freemasonry, New World Order, Globalists, I don't trust any of them. I question your openness and dedication. It seems that your attempting to "normalize" Freemasonry by providing a "little ol me" story and that your the exception and not the rule. I detect a nefarious side to your story, with recruitment overtones. As You implied, you will always be a mason.
I will always distrust you.





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