I wouldn't recommend masonry to any one.

reply to post by Molan27


I wasn't trying to be a bad dude. I was trying to stick up for a friend and brother. If some one you looked up to and respected was in the same situation would you run and leave them there to face it alone, or would you stand next to your friends and take the beating with them. In this instance i just happened to come out on top. It still put in a bad way with the members of my lodge but i assure you i had no other intentions other than getting out of there with out taking a beating. And in no way shape or form would i ever leave a friend or a brother alone in a situation like that.



[edit on 29-11-2009 by W3RLIED2]

reply to post by Bunker or Bust

"What we believe, shapes what we see"

from me signature.

It's a very true statement.

Can joining the masons put me closer to raising the venture capital I need? From a business perspective does it make sense to join?

reply to post by Bunker or Bust


1st: no one is excluded from Masonic Charity, in regards to helping a man in need. So if someones wife and child needed safe haven they should be safe if left in a Masons home. This goes with the assumption all Masons are good. As this thread stated early on, not all Masons are good. It is to be expected by a Mason, if indeed the man is a Mason at heart, they can be counted on to assist a Brother, or anyone else, that asks for help, or is in need of help and it comes to the Masons attention.

2nd: Masons are taught that they can count on another Brother unconditionally. This is to mean they will not defame you behind your back, you will not disrespect another mans wife with words or action, it means you are suppose to be able to trust another Mason above other men. The reality is that Masons are men, and with any group of men you have the low, lousy, sorry excuses among the group. The ideal is that all Masons are good, they were good before becoming a Mason, all Masonic teachings do it highlight the goodness within them. Unfortunately some Masons are bad.

3rd: In the dark of the night, in unknown areas, in trouble who do you turn to for help? A Mason is suppose to be someone that can be trusted anytime, anywhere, with any problem, for another Brother and for society in general. But within the Masonic Lodge we all take an Obligation, and if a man takes the Obligation to heart then without a doubt that man can be counted on. I like to think that if I get in trouble, lets say out of town, no money only a check book, that if I locate another Brother he will take my check for car repairs, cash, or whatever when in general he would not.

4th: I have no doubt that Masons get some favorable treatment at times by Brothers in power. The same is true of University Alums, the Moose Lodge, the Eagles, The Chamber of Commerce, The local Police Department, The Knights of Columbus. The fact that favors take place does not justify the actions, it is simply a fact that people that associate through a society will favor their own when given a choice.

If I have to choose a stranger to help me or my family and I have a choice, I will chose a Mason because somewhere in his history at some point he was a good man. His actions may not show this to be true, but at some point he took an Obligation of the same kind I took, and that is at least common ground.

You can seek goodness or evil or corruption in any group you choose. Demonizing Masons is as good a group as any to go after. They all have flaws because they all are just men, nothing more, nothing less. Those that act in unjust manners are wrong, those that act as good citizens are equal to all other men that act in the same manner.

reply to post by network dude


Uh, look man I just bought this laptop lol.

I have a superstition about being the last post on a page. It's weird and it might be ECD lol.

Hmm.. just had one of those realization moments that screams "Your a NERD!"

==how ironic that this was the last post on a page..

Originally posted by EMPIRE
Can joining the masons put me closer to raising the venture capital I need? From a business perspective does it make sense to join?

OMG, NOOOOO ... From a business perspective I cannot lie, it has networking benefits to an extent. But for capital, it's the last place.

Freemasons are notoriously stingy about giving money even to Masonry. Joining and then asking for a few hundred K or whatever is going to alienate you right off the bat. Everyone will think "Ah, that's why he joined"

Join a country club.

Or go to a bank.

Now I would have respect for Freemason's if they truly showed the same loyalty and compassion to all human beings and not just brothers. If that was the case you would not have to be a secret club for the elite or "better members of society". Why should a judge or political figure hide his membership? Surely if you practice what you preach to all of humanity then what is the problem, the truth is you don't which is why you like to keep it hidden away.

Why do you need a special handshake or sign to help someone that needs help? What's wrong with the word help? I am sorry it is sad, by your very words you reveal yourselves to be the elitest self serving individuals you are. How can you argue against this very fact, take a long good deep look inside yourselves. Some "Mason's" wouldn't know good if it run over them in a ten tonne truck! "But there are bad people in every group" well remove them then, its a private club after all.

People don't need to be part of a group to do good, a single person can help the homeless, prevent cruelty or any other wrong they come across. A ring does not make a man, his deeds do. And I don't restrict my help to brothers, or anyone regardless of colour, race, nation or whatever.

So in answer do I "feel" good, no. I know that I am good based on my deeds every single day, there is a very big difference my friend and I sleep soundly understanding the differnce.

Just be careful, one day you might be judged..

[edit on 29-11-2009 by Bunker or Bust]

Shriner's have cooler hats...

2nd line.

reply to post by Wolfpack 51


It is based on what you state and the fact a Judge or Political figures are human and may be influenced by Freemason oaths is why I say its wrong. Can you argue with that honestly?

I understand what you are saying but its your group, you got bad apples then deal with it. Come out into the open and stop hiding if you are what you say you are.

Originally posted by Bunker or Bust


People don't need to be part of a group to do good, a single person can help the homeless, prevent cruelty or any other wrong they come across. A ring does not make a man, his deeds do. And I don't restrict my help to brothers, or anyone regardless of colour, race, nation or whatever.

So in answer do I "feel" good, no. I know that I am good based on my deeds every single day, there is a very big difference my friend and I sleep soundly understanding the differnce.

Just be careful, one day you might be judged..

[edit on 29-11-2009 by Bunker or Bust]

see, you get it. you can drop all the hate towards a group. Look at the individuals. There are good and bad in any group, and within masonry, I can meet a stranger in a strange town, and immediately trust him and feel at ease. I might be disappointed, but only on rare occasions. You don't need a group to sleep soundly, but it's nice to know that they are always there for you. And my judgement will come from one and only one. He is the only one I have to live up to. All others I do in hopes that they will do the same for me.

reply to post by Bunker or Bust


You obviously know nothing about Masonry. Most of our charities are for non-Masons, sometimes anonymously. In fact, aside from Masonic Homes I don't personally know of any large scale Masonic charities for Masons.

However the Freemasons (at least in Ohio where I have experience) is the single largest donor to the Special Olympics. Shriner Hospitals are one of the largest charities in the World for children. Most lodges have designated charities, and assist with local ones like Toys for Tots, buying school supplies for children, and I've seen several lodges that partake in a program to buy clothing for children through the schools anonymously so the children and their families never know who assisted them aside from the school did it.

Ya, we are really all about compassion for Masons, and tell the rest of the world to screw off alright.

reply to post by network dude


Don't get me wrong, I have no hate towards the principle of doing good or the group as a whole. Although I do get upset sometimes and can be a little childish due to my experience with masons. See a good man knows his weakness and can admit them. (By the way I am dyslexic)

A prime example would be Christian's there are some that are good and some that are bad, I don't hate the Christian faith. I hate the wolves in sheeps clothing, feeding off the good will of other in that group. I could tell you an interesting story about a christmas dinner where I had four ministers round my table. They dont like to debate thats all I can say, and get a little nasty about it which is sad.

The problem is when a group is involved that does not do its house keeping. Pick one, you are correct they are all the same.

As I said I would help anyone regardless, because I am on my own I still get to do the good stuff without any negative impact. I am not in a group, no-one owes me anything different from anyone else walking this planet, there is no impact to justice or politics or the lives of anyone only the person I help. I am not a bad apple, as you state your group has plenty as do all. It is your responsibility to do something about it, but what do you do when they are at the top? If you know please tell me, the world needs a real change.

They use the influence and power of the group to their own gains and goals. On my own I can't do that, does that deminish my work or efforts? No not in the least but it means if this apple did turn bad and people do change, I cannot harm others using the influence and power of a group and its oath. Hence why do you need to be a mason, if you have the goodness in you to help anyone can you not trust a stranger? Why do you need that brother backup?

I am sticking with it, I have nearly walked away from this thread a couple of times but I think we are slowly getting under the hood. Which is good news, hope you don't get smacked for it.

You're right, one man can make a difference.
However, unless you are particularly wealthy, intelligent, or driven, it's more effective to work with groups. You don't have to limit yourself to one group, but the effort done, well, a landslide is made of many rocks.

Originally posted by Bunker or Bust
reply to post by Violater1

 

Quote from Bunker or Bust, "

So now your going to tell me that Christian's look after only Christian's are you?"

Its sad that you are not knowledgeable of the Christian bible, yet attempt to illicit feelings of knowledge about it. You truly show your nefarious ignorance. I don't where you contrived your comment about Christians only looking out for Christians. So allow me to very briefly explain the Samaritan parable. A Samaritan, who was collectively hated by the Jews, found a beaten and robbed Jew beside the road. He took care of and paid for, the Jews recovery, knowing full well, that he would never be repaid. He did this, not by taking an oath, but by love towards his fellow man. Christians, although not perfect, will take care of, and pray for, even their enemy's. That includes, all men of all religions or non-religions. And yes, even you.
Peace.

[edit on 29-11-2009 by Violater1]

reply to post by Violater1


It was in the context of the point I was making, trust me I know the bible and a wide range of texts.

Please read the post and understand the context of what I am trying to put across before telling me what I do and don't undertand. This is not a debate about Christian ethics, start one up I will be right over!

reply to post by RuneSpider


I agree totally, but most groups have an agenda and it is not always good.

If that was really the case with Freemason's then why the secrets? Why the funny handshakes, it does not add up.

reply to post by Bunker or Bust

I have started a thread. But the powers that be placed it in RANT, hence the first line after my name in my avatar.
Here is the link:
www.belowtopsecret.com...
Peace out (thump, thumb sound of my fist sign and then peace sign on my chest)

reply to post by Bunker or Bust


lol, nobody is gong to smack me for my view. We are all just people. Why I "need" masonry, well I think of it as we need each other. Anyone can live a masonic life without being a mason. But with a group, you can achieve great things. Much more than you would as an individual. maybe I am not a great leader and I need that structure. I don't know. But I am very comfortable being who I am and doing what I do. I enjoy my friends in the lodge and look froward to every chance I have to meet with them. In a nutshell, it makes me happy. And in this day and age, happiness seems to be in short supply too.

What I would say to anybody who lived the live of a good person but didn't like the idea of secrets, is that you don't need anything to make you that person. some people need a little help to be that person. masonry is but one path among many that lead to the same place. If it's not for you then fine. But if it is for you, then that is even better. You sound like that kind of person and the world will be a better place with you in it no matter what. I hate to sound like a motivational speaker, but that is the truth. It is what you asked for.

My father used to be a mason and he got out about 20 years ago.

He mentioned many of the same things you did.

Backstabbers and a cliquey old boys club.

reply to post by Bunker or Bust


The secret in Freemasonry is the handshakes.

From reading about it, and discussing Masonry with Masons, the way I understand it is this.

While in the Stats Masonry has become mostly a charitable organizations, it's original intention, while still chraritbable, had more to do with philosophy and the study of the occult.
Not the demonic interpretation, but the study of old faiths, ideas, and religions. Keep in mind, rituals used to be a main way of transferring knowledge.
In a way, I find it similar to doing kata in martial arts.

A Masons is asked to give his word to not share the secrets of Masonry, the grips and rituals, with others.
That's not to say they haven't, Duncan's Ritual Guide is a obvious example of it, as have some television specials from what I recall.

That also harkens back to old ways of preserving knowledge and sharing.

In my opinion, and the opinion of those I've talked with, Masonry holds nothing special. It is one path a man may walk to get to the same destination as others.