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Number of victims to unknown virus growing! State of emergency to be imposed in Ukraine?

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posted on Nov, 22 2009 @ 08:02 PM
Oh, holy crap. Just thought of another theory.

Theory 2:

I thought of how much money this will cost the insurance companies, too, if 30% of the population gets ill, and many of them are serious cases....think of how much an average ICU stay costs....we're talking over $1000 per day, bed alone, not even counting meds, supplies, etc...

Ok, anyone notice what's happening in Congress right now? The battle for health care reform.

What if this is an effort to bankrupt all the insurance companies? If 30% of the population got seriously ill and landed in the hospital.... so many health insurance companies would go broke paying all those claims.

Thus...we would have to go back to fee for service (out of pocket) or we'd have to go to nationalized healthcare. Or perhaps a new system of insurance or a new group of insurance companies would fill in the void.

Hmmm....who would stand to benefit the most if this was man-made?


So, what do you think....theory 1 or theory 2?



[edit on 22-11-2009 by nikiano]

posted on Nov, 22 2009 @ 08:32 PM

Originally posted by Kailassa

Originally posted by nikiano
I was keeping an open mind I think my mind is made up. This is a man-made virus. Because keeping media silence doesn't make sense if it's a natural epidemic.

The CDC didn't go to all the trouble of getting the 1918 virus dug up from Alaska and resurrected for nothing.

At the time the story was that this virus no longer existed, therefore they had to recreate it, breed it, send it all over the world and experiment with it, in order to make us safe from it.

Somehow that story didn't quite add up.

Too true!

Hey, thanks for the stars. lol! I'll take them!

Ad astra per aspera!

[edit on 22-11-2009 by nikiano]

posted on Nov, 22 2009 @ 09:46 PM
I very rarely post as I prefer to read the ideas of others, so sorry if this seems a bit disconjointed.

I have been reading this thread from day one and found it to contain some of the most interesting ideas from many people far more educated than I, especially those with a medical background. It has had many theories added from many knowledgable people from all parts of the world which I think makes this thread more relevant than most when it comes to reading about the current H1N1 issues and the possible NWO agenda. For what it's worth, here are my 2 cents.

Nikiano - I like your first theory regarding money for big pharma, it plays into the same theory that over the past number of years different sectors of "industry" have received a windfall/ bailout in the US. You have:
9/11 - Arms manufacturers & US construction firms in Iraq and Afghanistan
Enron/ Nortel type accounting scandals - Auditing firms making money through SOX controls
Sub-Prime Fiasco - Banks bailed out by taxpayer
US car makers - bailed out by taxpayer
Big Pharma - sicken the population - huge windfall from vaccine and other medical products.
From a financial perspective why wouldn't they want to get a piece of the pie before it's all gone? The US cannot keep falling further into debt without dire consequences for all. The best way to "ride out the storm" for any industry is to get some big bucks and fast.

But back to the topic. In Alberta at the start of the vacination for H1N1 in late October, early November, they decided to give the vaccine to all with an emphasis on the pregnant, young, and infirm/ non-healthy, but most interestingly the homeless. The local news networks did special features for H1N1 and the vaccination plan the provincial government had. They showed all the local homeless people happily lining up to get there shots.

With what has been discussed on this thread regarding depopulation and somehow using the vaccine against the population, especially those who are the most vulnerable, in poor health and as seen by the elites as a "burden on society", why would they be the first in line to be vaccinated?

The sections of society being "vaccinated" first leaves something nagging at the back of my mind. The provicncial government here has been crapping on the disadvanteged people all year with cuts to the elderly, healthcare, cutting frontline hostpital staff and the proposed closing of mental health facilities. They have been fully aware of the H1N1 since spring but still continue to try and cut healthcare spending at a time when we should have been ramping up if the Ukraine is anything to go by.

As another poster mentioned, little news of the outbreaks has been shown in the MSM in the west. With the biggest week in the US for travel coming this week, it looks to me that TPTB trying to spread the infection to as many people as possible.
Whether the passing fo the H1N1 causes mass hospitalization or death to many, the NWO will either achieve their objective of depopulation or make billions in medical care or both.

posted on Nov, 22 2009 @ 11:20 PM
"H1N1" is far from the only disease that can cause hemmorhagic conditions. Tuberculosis is a classic and consistent hemmorhagic disease. Proof of this (besides the well known symptom of "hemoptysis" or coughing up blood) lies below:

Probl Tuberk Bolezn Legk. 2005;(1):40-3.
[Pulmonary hemorrhages of different etiology: diagnosis and treatment]
[Article in Russian]
Ventsiavichus V, Tsitsenas S.
Hemorrhage is one of the most pressing problems in lung diseases. The paper analyzes the results of medical and surgical treatments for pulmonary hemorrhages. A total of 724 patients with hemoptysis and bleedings of various etiology were treated at the Thoracic Unit in 1985-2003. Pulmonary hemorrhages occurred in 442 (61%) patients with pulmonary tuberculosis and in 282 (39%) patients with nonspecific lung diseases.

And here is the way TB (a mycobacteria) causes its bleeding hemmorhagic state, by secreting Mycobacterial Trehalose Dimycolate.

Interstitial and Hemorrhagic Pneumonitis Induced by
Mycobacterial Trehalose Dimycolate

posted on Nov, 23 2009 @ 12:15 AM
Well, since we're talking theories here, here are my 3 cents:

1. Nikiano - the one you've mentioned about getting us sick to profit off of us has been mentioned before. I think that's a possibility;
2. They want to kill a large portion of us. If it is true that they have been exhuming victims of the 1918 flu I can see only two practical reasons to do so. This is one. The other is #3;
3. They actually truly believe a killer pandemic was on the way like the 1918 flu and were trying to research it to help protect us. I know, I know.... they would never. Anyway, it is possible they were researching to help us and screwed up and accidentally released something. Or, went to far and lost control of it.....

Those a my 3 cents.

posted on Nov, 23 2009 @ 04:36 AM
With respect to the theory about the reason for the pandemic being to bankrupt insurance companies, just a reminder that the virus is a global issue, not USA specific. So this is extremely unlikely.

posted on Nov, 23 2009 @ 04:42 AM
Situation Update No. 48
On 23.11.2009 at 03:47 GMT+2

According to analysis of genetic testing done by the World Health Organization, the Ukraine flu virus is an H1N1 mutation that is similar to the 1918 Spanish flu epidemic. The two flu virus outbreaks both have changes in the receptor binding domain D225G, and similar symptoms, which include bleeding in the lungs. Current estimates of the deaths attributed to the Ukraine flu outbreak is as many as 400, and increasing daily.

Spanish flu pandemic

In 1918, the Spanish flu pandemic killed between 20 million and 40 million people. The pandemic took place during the end of World War I, but ten times as many Americans died from the Spanish Flu as died in the war - nearly 700,000. The most severely struck regions were in areas of high humidity. Some speculation existed that the Spanish flu was an early attempt at a biological weapon due to the extremely high death rate, and symptoms that included bleeding in the lungs.

H1N1 Mutation in the Ukraine

The H1N1 mutation in the Ukraine also includes the symptoms of bleeding in the lungs, and has been described as an infection that completely destroys the lungs. The receptor binding proteins present in the Spanish flu and in swine flu mutations that result in bleeding lungs and death are the same. A virus attaches to charged molecules on cells. Some attach to proteins and others to lipids, but the type of molecule differs between viruses. The virus samples analyzed by the World Health Organization from the Ukraine flu showed a different receptor binding pattern than the original swine flu virus, but the same as the receptor binding pattern as the 1918 Spanish flu.

posted on Nov, 23 2009 @ 05:52 AM
The same groups of wealthy tycoons that control the big banks, big oil, and the armament industry, also control big pharma.

The goal of these groups is to destroy the middle class--economically--so that there are only two classes in society: (i) the ultra wealthy controlling class, and (ii) the impoverished controlled class.

Carrol Quigley, the Georgetown University history proffersor, who was Bill Clinton's mentor, and author of the 700+ page tome "Tragedy and Hope", makes this point very clear. He had acess to the secret archives of the Council on Foreign Relations, and was authorized to write the history of the ultra wealthy controlling groups, which he simply referred to as the "Powers".

According to Quigley, the goal is a feudalist society, asimilar to that which emerged after the fall of the Roman empire--where the middle class did not exist.

At the top of the social-economic hierarchy sit the Central Banks, which in turn are administered by the Bank of International Settlements in Switzerland. The controlling groups control the Central Banks, and the various mega corporations around the world--and through them all the governments of the world, which are in bed with the Central Banks and the mega corporations.

This is not make believe or fantasy. The history of the elite controlling class and their covert organizations, is very well documented. If it is a "conspiracy", it is now a very open conspiracy, which no longer attempts to hide its globalist agenda to destroy all notions of national sovereignity, and all means of economic support for the middle class.

The H1N1 pandemic is just a piece of the puzzle. It serves many purposes simultaneously. Prior to the pandemic, big pharma was in trouble. Now it is doing very well due to the sale of some 6 billion vaccine doses to the governments of the world, along with all the other side benefits associated with an increased number of hospital patients.

I suspect that the pandemic, if human engineered, is primarily designed to funnel revenues to big pharma. It may be just a first stage, to be followed by much more deadly forms of disease, designed for genuine depopulation.

There is no doubt that the elite controlling classes want to depopulate the planet. This is necessary. But before the depopulation begins in earnest, there has to be a huge transfer of wealth from the middle class to the elite upper classes and their corporate vehicles. We are still in phase One. Phase Two will begin once the middle class is fully emasculated as a potential threat. The worst is yet to come.

[edit on 23-11-2009 by Angiras]

[edit on 23-11-2009 by Angiras]

[edit on 23-11-2009 by Angiras]

posted on Nov, 23 2009 @ 06:21 AM

Originally posted by nikiano
...Call me stupid, but what I don't understand is why the crack down on the media? Why silence the media on this?

If they wanted us to get scared and take the vaccine, you would think you'd want to hype the cases.

I can understand not wanting to panic people, but there are ways of reporting things without panicking. For example, you could say "there are now isolated reports of hemorrhagic H1N1 throughout the united states. Please be aware, but do not be panicked."

I don't know....there's just something about this whole thing that doesn't make sense to me. What am I missing?? What is the missing piece of the puzzle?
[edit on 22-11-2009 by nikiano]

As you mentioned in a follow-up post, all of the Big Pharma companies do a lot more than make drugs and vaccines. It's all the ancillary equipment they produce as well. So, as you said, there is a lot more money to be made from people who become seriously ill or even chronically ill and who therefore require intensive and expensive treatment in the short term, or fairly costly treatment in the long term.

I don't know how it works in the USA, but in some countries, people who are sick cannot be registered as looking for work. Because they're too sick to take any employment. Instead, they go on some form of "sickness benefits" rather than "unemployment benefits".

Neither the public nor the financial markets' decision-makers get regular updates on the number of people who are sick and therefore not able to seek work. The only figures they get are for people who are fit for work and seeking work.

So, that might be a factor in the whole mix: it helps to keep the "unemployed" number down. (Maybe: depending on how a country does its statistics.)

As to why the msm are saying next to nothing new about the flu at the present time, well -- this week is Thanksgiving in the US. The biggest travelling week of the whole year as I understand it.

All that travel means money for the companies that provide the transport. Airlines, bus companies and so forth. Even car rental companies. If the govt via the CDC announced that due to the risk of spreading the epidemic, it would be wise for people to delay travel, it could impact the gross income for those companies. So that might be a factor.

Then there's the concept you and others have referred to. "They" would perhaps prefer this epidemic to spread as much as possible and as soon as possible. So it's better from their perspective to do nothing that would deter US citizens from traveling to go home and be with their families.

After all, some people will travel long distances to "go home" for Thanksgiving. Even from other countries. Then after a few days, the infection now seeded in thousands of communities that didn't have it before, they go back from whence they came. Either that, or they go to places where the infection already exists and then carry it back with them.

Both of those scenarios are guaranteed to happen. The infection will be spread to almost every community in the US. Then after Thanksgiving it will be carried by expats to many other places around the world.

All in the space of about one week.

If you wanted a "perfect storm" to spread a virulent pathogen, Thanksgiving is it.

The Big Pharma companies will make billions out of this. Without Thanksgiving (and a virtual news blackout on the epidemic), they'll still make billions. But this way, they'll make even more.

And, in a few weeks, a lot less people will be looking for work. They'll be too sick to do so.



posted on Nov, 23 2009 @ 06:22 AM
It looks like everyone is on the same page right now; or at least in general agreement that the resurrection of the 1918 virus in labs followed by its re-emergence in pockets around the world is more than just a coincidence. The fact that Big Pharma has benefited financially is without a doubt.

The fact that this strain of flu has popped up in various places could be because it is spontaneous or more likely is just good planning on the part of the perpetrators to make it appear like a natural thing. An outbreak in only one place would have looked like an accidental or intentional leak and the guilty parties would have been highly scrutinized.

The fact that the WHO has underplayed and even tried to hide this mutation's appearance, saying the Ukrainian flu was not much different, just adds to the notion that they have been co-opted by Big Pharma to help keep the truth of the matter from the public.

Awareness hurts. The kind of deviance displayed by today's corporate leaders is something you only saw in B horror movies or cartoons when I was a kid. No-one thought such people actually exist, but I am afraid there is no other way to look at it. Not only do they exist, they seem to be part of a rather large club.

They say awareness of a problem is the first step. Well, we are becoming more aware than ever, so what now?

First, resist -- the drugs, the immunization programs.
There surely must be more to do. Any ideas?

edit to add: Since all of the problems, from the financial sector to the health sector seem to have the same dynamic of funneling as much $ as possible away from the middle class, up to the super rich, methinks there might be a common approach to resolving things.

[edit on 11/23/2009 by wayno]

posted on Nov, 23 2009 @ 07:33 AM

Originally posted by wayno
First, resist -- the drugs, the immunization programs.
There surely must be more to do. Any ideas?
[edit on 11/23/2009 by wayno]

Well I for one am stocking up on alternative remedies... (Echinacea, Astragalus, mineral suppliments etc).

Depending on how they implement Codex after December, your options to self medicate might well become somewhat limited, if not downright illegal !

posted on Nov, 23 2009 @ 07:45 AM

Originally posted by fieldfly

Originally posted by wayno
First, resist -- the drugs, the immunization programs.
There surely must be more to do. Any ideas?
[edit on 11/23/2009 by wayno]

Well I for one am stocking up on alternative remedies... (Echinacea, Astragalus, mineral suppliments etc).

Depending on how they implement Codex after December, your options to self medicate might well become somewhat limited, if not downright illegal !

Also stock food and ammo. If it comes to marshall law it won't be fun.

posted on Nov, 23 2009 @ 07:48 AM
reply to post by fieldfly

Depending on how they implement Codex after December, your options to self medicate might well become somewhat limited, if not downright illegal!

Funny how that Codex thing just fits in so nicely with this whole scenario. Make people sick so that they need medication but prevent them from using anything but what Big Pharma manufactures.

They really do seem to have this thing locked up and water tight. At what point does it not just get too obvious what they are doing, and people start to resist.

I am with you on the natural remedies as an adjunct to general good health practices like diet, exercise, hygiene (not overdone) and rest.

posted on Nov, 23 2009 @ 07:52 AM
reply to post by JJay55

This is a reply to fieldfly.
Oh please not Echinacea. That can cause a cytokine storm. Please go back and check the items that are recommended to reduce the respiratory effects.

[edit on 23-11-2009 by sickofitall2012]

posted on Nov, 23 2009 @ 08:11 AM

Originally posted by sickofitall2012
reply to post by JJay55

This is a reply to fieldfly.
Oh please not Echinacea. That can cause a cytokine storm. Please go back and check the items that are recommended to reduce the respiratory effects.

[edit on 23-11-2009 by sickofitall2012]

Yes, good point, I should have thought more clearly before that 'quickie' post.

I do not and would not take Echinacea to combat an already present infection, and anyone considering using it should do their own research on how suppliments can be used effectively without causing more harm than good.

I personally only take Echinacea for a week or so every couple of months to help me NOT catch a cold/flu etc. It should not be taken as a regular 'daily' suppliment.

posted on Nov, 23 2009 @ 08:36 AM
I use homeopathy myself....quick, cheap, and very effective if you know how to choose the right remedy for your symptoms.

But Wayno, surely, you're right. We can't keep RE-acting to everything. There must be a way for us to PRO-actively do something. I just have no idea what it is, other than drastically changing my spending habits, which I am currently doing.

I personally think we should start going back to a barter system. On a barter system, you don't need money, therefore you don't need banks, and therefore we don't have someone getting rich at the top of the money chain.

Also, corporations.....they've gotten out of hand, and the system only rewards the rich and powerful. I have decided to make a concerted effort to not spend my money with corporations/chains any more than I absolutely have to. (Do you know how hard that is? But it can be done.)

But still, these ideas are only a drop in the bucket. Too bad there isn't a way that ATS could be a force for change, other than being a place where people come to find answers and discuss.....if would be interesting if we could start a "movement" of some sort.

[edit on 23-11-2009 by nikiano]

posted on Nov, 23 2009 @ 08:55 AM
reply to post by nikiano

I have decided to make a concerted effort to not spend my money with corporations/chains any more than I absolutely have to. (Do you know how hard that is? But it can be done.)

I think that is a start. I also have been changing my spending. Interestingly an informal barter system seems to be in place here where I recently moved. Neighbours here are always lending a helping hand, for free or next to nothing; sharing veggies and surpluses. Its not planned but now that I think about it, it is keeping money "out of the system".

Unfortunately, for more to start bucking the system they would have to have a conscience and sense of responsibility. I don't see that being the case a lot of the time which is why big business is having their way.

I think we are overdue on some front line reports from Ukraine about how things are going over there and what is working, if anything, for them. I hope the government arrests of bloggers aren't being a deterrent. Then again their safety is primary, so how about those in neighbouring countries?

posted on Nov, 23 2009 @ 09:46 AM
The anti-panic brigade are certainly in full swing in regard to Ukraine specifically, the following excerpt from the UK Foreign Office is almost suggesting that we shouldn't worry because it is no worse than seasonal flu.

Note how according to them, the figures may only be high because they include illnesses that are not all flu (read ARI !);

On 12 November, following a ten day visit to western Ukraine, a World Health Organisation field mission reported that the official Ukrainian figures included all deaths from flu and acute respiratory illnesses and should therefore be handled with care, and that the outbreak may not killing more people than normal seasonal flu. For further details, go to the website of the World Health Organisation at You should also continue to monitor this Travel Advice and the Ukrainian Health Ministry website ( in Ukrainian only).


So we have nothing to worry about... our government says so
Yeah, Right !!!

[edit on 23-11-2009 by fieldfly]

posted on Nov, 23 2009 @ 02:43 PM
Latest Ukraine Statistics (WHO manipulation of death totals still in effect)

1,635,654 Infected

97,192 Hospitalized

388 Deaths

posted on Nov, 23 2009 @ 02:47 PM
Ukraine Fatalaties Linked to Mutation (Houston, TX)

The receptor binding domain (RBD) for the Ukraine H1N1 mutation, D225G, has been linked to fatal cases of swine flu infection. Demographic and genetic analysis for the H1N1 mutation taking place in the Ukraine virus has been published by Mill Hill, the London laboratory that performed testing on samples from the Ukraine. D225G is the same RBD that was found in the virus that caused the 1918 Spanish flu outbreak.

H1N1 mutation fatalities

According to this analysis of the Mill Hill lab information, each of the fatal cases of flu from the Ukraine virus contained this marker. D225G is the name for the receptor binding domain of this particular virus. A virus attaches to charged molecules on host cells, but each type of virus attaches to a different type of molecule, in a different way. The H1N1 mutation found in the Ukraine attaches in the same place, in the same way, as the Spanish flu virus from 1918.

Detection of the H1N1 mutation

While positive results for the H1N1 virus with D225G are not widespread, this may be the result of the methods of testing. Tests for swine flu typically consist of a nasal swab, which is unlikely to pick up this mutated virus, due to its location. The H1N1 mutation that is causing fatalities in the Ukraine and Norway affects the respiratory system, and is found deep in the lungs.

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