Number of victims to unknown virus growing! State of emergency to be imposed in Ukraine?

Originally posted by ecoparity
Latest Ukraine Statistics (WHO manipulation of death totals still in effect)

1,635,654 Infected

97,192 Hospitalized

388 Deaths

www.moz.gov.ua...

Huh situation must be really bad. Capacity of whole Ukraine hospital network is somewhere between 35.000 and 40.000 if I remember rightly. Patients must lay everywhere around - not just at rooms.

Originally posted by nikiano
Well, personally, I'm thinking it's HIGHLY coincidental that
a. two corpses were dug up this year to find the 1918 virus in order to "study it"
b. live virus "mistakenly" got released into a place where it should not have been
c. the same mutation that appeared in 1918 is now appearing this year. Why this year, all of a sudden?

Far too coincidental for me.

Amen to that. These and a host of many other facts - should be far too coincidental
for everyone. The fact that these instances aren't too coincidental for some is really where the danger lies. How can a group of intelligent humans - not see to such a great extent?

Originally posted by skjalddis

Originally posted by ecoparity
Ukraine Fatalaties Linked to Mutation (Houston, TX)

.. The H1N1 mutation found in the Ukraine attaches in the same place, in the same way, as the Spanish flu virus from 1918. ..

Can anyone here who knows about viruses give us some kind of idea of what is the likelihood of this exact same kind of mutation taking place without human interference?

how likely / unlikely would you say it is?

Must say, I've been following this thread from the beginning off and on and I have to applaud the high quality of the posts here.

The D225G is a single coding change from D225N. What that does is insert one different amino acid in the protein chain. One amino acid does not sound like much but it changes the "folded shape" of the protein, Quaternary structure. This change would be expected in my mind if the virus did not develop a mutation for higher activity at lower temperatures which I have not heard of and thought early in this tread that this was what we were seeing. The virus has a optimum reproductive temperature that is closer to the lung temp than the throat and sinuses. Also remember that the virus is coded by RNA instead of DNA. DNA is much more stable and reproduces itself with much fewer errors. The errors in duplication is one way that mutations occur. There is also swapping of genetic coding when two viruses infect the same host.

In short this is what virus do all the time. It is completely within the statistical probability that this would happen naturally.

Now before a bunch of you jump on me I will state what I have stated before in this tread. At this point I have no dog in the fight on whether there is or isn't a conspiracy. We will have more than enough problems if this mutated strain picks up the mutation for tamiflu resistance and has a couple of other changes. I have started getting ready for a bad time. Must people do not know how bad flu can be. Look at the history of flu entering a population that had no immunity to it. We do not have much immunity to this one and we as the world are the population that is going to be hit. In fact it would be much better for us all if it were one of the bacterial agents that have been suggested.

Wow...that article from Dr. Ott was....wow. Thanks for the post.

On a postive side, the link I posted earlier about the remote healing experiement that happened tonight at 7pm? Great news....check it out.

Now that we know that it works, I think we should now do remote healing for the people in the Ukraine. Who's up for it?

[edit on 23-11-2009 by nikiano]

Originally posted by spinkyboo

Originally posted by nikiano
Well, personally, I'm thinking it's HIGHLY coincidental that
a. two corpses were dug up this year to find the 1918 virus in order to "study it"
b. live virus "mistakenly" got released into a place where it should not have been
c. the same mutation that appeared in 1918 is now appearing this year. Why this year, all of a sudden?

Far too coincidental for me.

Amen to that. These and a host of many other facts - should be far too coincidental
for everyone. The fact that these instances aren't too coincidental for some is really where the danger lies. How can a group of intelligent humans - not see to such a great extent?

Before I represent the other side of the issue once again let me state I am not happy about people digging up old pandemic victims. I accept the reasons being given for it as valid but I still don't like it.

The virologists side of that issue is that we did not have a very complete understanding of the 1918 virus. People at that time didn't even know if it was a virus, many thought it was a bacteria and that various cleaning rituals would cure it. (They didn't though some probably helped slow it down or stop it from spreading).

The virology community wanted to analyze 1918 samples again since the 1930s. You have to understand that it has always been considered to be the hallmark flu virus a/f/a danger to humans. The population had no immunity to it in 1918 and science has worried about a return performance ever since.

Once the folding programs were ready the project was given the go ahead and assigned to a lab they felt could maintain the security. They did not want a repeat of past mistakes where deadly pathogens were given to nations the US did not "agree" with.

There are stories the virus samples were spread around anyway, none I can verify but I haven't really asked about it.

So anyway - that's the other side of it. I'm not taking a position on it, just putting it out there as usual.

If what's being referred to is US virologist Taubenberger and his non-docturate assistent Reid at the Air Force Institute of Pathology digging up permafrost specimens and those stored in formaldehyde at the Institute itself - there are a few major procedural flaws. First of all phenol was used which kills almost any bacteria that crawls. Thus, and as in the case of most professionals in the field of virology, they were looking for and through Reid's last minute heroic efforts with BLAST, found, the only thing they were intent on finding to begin with...a virus. It was really quite reminiscent of those retrovirologists which through similiar tunnel vision set about finding another virus, HIV. Oh they went through, in the case of the AIDS virus, the traditional metamorphasis, first swearing to doctors that is was the Cytomegalovirus virus behind AIDS, then no, perhaps certainly it was the Barr-Epstein virus, then perhaps a combination of hepatitis with feline leukemia in cats-another retrovirus. But nonsense, said Gallo, surely it was the HTLV-1 and voluminous research was done and appeared on PubMed on an HTLV-1, which it turned out, didn't cause the disease. But with each turn medicine followed the lead of virology.

And I, for one, am not about to be blindly led by speculation. When the pictographs of H1N1 first appeared on a well known and respected internet site, for example, a colleague, who happens to be a Virologist asked for the technique, source of and where he might find the published report on the impressive microphotographs before him. He asked the publisher 6 times for this information and got no response in each case. The reasons for this were elusive, but left him unconvinced.

reply to post by calohan


You want a plausible, well referenced alternative? Watch this vid I made about a secondary bacterial infection that works synergistically with H1N1.

Originally posted by seattletruth
reply to post by calohan

 

You want a plausible, well referenced alternative? Watch this vid I made about a secondary bacterial infection that works synergistically with H1N1.

I wondered about nearly the same thng.. Since MRSA is spread into the population would that deal a deaath blow to someone who got the swine flu??

Originally posted by zeddissad

Originally posted by ecoparity
Latest Ukraine Statistics (WHO manipulation of death totals still in effect)

1,635,654 Infected

97,192 Hospitalized

388 Deaths

www.moz.gov.ua...

Huh situation must be really bad. Capacity of whole Ukraine hospital network is somewhere between 35.000 and 40.000 if I remember rightly. Patients must lay everywhere around - not just at rooms.

Please some one correct me if I am wrong however I think the figures for numbers 1,635,654 Infected and 97,192 Hospitalized are a total from day one of the infection.Therefore a large number of those who were hospitalized would now be out and well.Of course the same with the number infected most would be well by now.

Great video. Great premise. But I don’t know if I agree with the over-simplification that Haemophilus Influenza is the only “bacteria” that should have been considered in 1918, nor that it was “secondary” to influenza. The only differentiation between the two at the time was whether it could pass through a filter- a poor criteria since we now know there are bacterial forms that can pass through filters as well. And speaking of sequencing, has anyone here looked at the comparative genomes of Haemophilus Influenza (suis or otherwise) and tuberculosis? There are many many parallels in the sequencing here.

*SNIP*

MOD NOTE: Please review the following: Using Content From Other Websites On ATS





[edit on 24-11-2009 by burdman30ott6]

reply to post by ecoparity


You really are one sided and that is sad, because all it does it gives power to those cashing out of the ability for people to get information about what is going on around this world and how big money is using people.

Your information is not better than mine, while you keep pushing scaremongering I keep backing up showing the deceptions been used here.

Swine flu, seasonal influenza, tuberculosis, pneumonia are going to kill people regardless and for that we should be saddened, but is not reason why people can not take care of themselves with the right tools rather than getting into pandemic of one killer virus doing us all.

Misdiagnosed diseases kills farther more people because of hypes than anything else.

If you can no understand this then that is my lost because that is what I am trying to do, Stop blaming all deaths to swine flu and a hype of killer mutation virus and lets see what else is out there been used to justified big money profits.



[edit on 24-11-2009 by marg6043]

What is the current treatment that is effective?

Originally posted by zeddissad

Originally posted by ecoparity
Latest Ukraine Statistics (WHO manipulation of death totals still in effect)

1,635,654 Infected

97,192 Hospitalized

388 Deaths

www.moz.gov.ua...

Huh situation must be really bad. Capacity of whole Ukraine hospital network is somewhere between 35.000 and 40.000 if I remember rightly. Patients must lay everywhere around - not just at rooms.

A situation like this in LA ot NYC would cause riots.

Originally posted by calohan
. . .
Now a Cambridge University study shows that there is a close correlation between rise in TB and the severe austerity measures that go with IMF loans. Are the Ukraine ‘Black Death’ cases the result of Ukraine’s IMF loans?
. . .
In November 2008 Ukraine applied to the IMF in Washington for an emergency $16.4 billion loan. The loan is being spoon-fed to the government in chunks of several billion to insure the Government follows the strict IMF “conditionalities” demanded by Washington. . . .
But in the process, the IMF is demanding savage cuts in pension benefits, public services including health services.

There is where the link between IMF loans and an explosion of TB cases converge.
. . .
Some critics have suggested the IMF be renamed the “Infant Mortality Fund” as the practice has been repeated with predictable results so often in African and other countries.
. . .
The reason the Cambridge scientists found was that IMF loans uniquely demand less government spending, fewer doctors per person, and a cut of nearly half in the number of people with TB that received Directly Observed Therapy, or DOTS.
. . . .
TB actually kills quickly when patients do not get proper medical supervision, so death rates are likely an indicator of rapidly declining care, not of events years previously.
. . . .

Great find, Calohan. However it's still only telling the easiest to swallow part of a terrible American plan authored by Kissinger et al, the NSSM 200. The plan to weaken and impoverish nations and murder their inhabitants was carefully carefully recorded in 1974. Not that it was really new then, but what America was doing overseas under the cover of "foreign aid" was finally given a representation on paper.

There is nothing coincidental about people dying when the IMF gains control. Borrowing from them is selling one's country's soul to the devil.

Kissinger and friends aimed to halt world population growth by the year 2000. When it became obvious, around 1990, that wars, genocides, famines and disease, (including man-made ones such as AIDS) were not going to achieve that, their spiritual heirs looked around for another means.

So they pulled up their samples from 1918-1919 and studied them. It became obvious there were too many mysteries involved for this to be useful without the virus itself, so bodies were dug up. In 1997 they finally succeeded in getting a usable sample, and set about reconstructing the actual virus. Once rebuilt it was carefully examined to learn what made it so contagious and so deadly, and these sequences were inserted into current flu strains to see if the virulence would be imparted. Doing tests on the virus meant it could be sent to many different laboratories, all of whom could breed it with the excuse of using it in experiments "to protect humanity."

However, it was found that the maximum death toll could only be gained with the addition of a bacterium. The viral and bacterial elements were synergistic, and both were required to have the huge surge in rapid, lung-melting deaths. The information has been carefully suppressed in order to keep the upper hand and not have anyone guess what was going on.

This year it was time to test them. As doing so would break the back of the overfed beast which had spent the last hundred years suckling from the rest of the world, it was finally time to humble the bully and steal its wealth. So we saw the $US being printed faster and faster, the amounts being printed being hidden to cause massive deflation of the dollar, and banks pushed into making unsecured loans to people who would be unable to repay once the economy collapsed. Collapsing the economy enabled the key players to coerce panicked politicians on both sides of the fence into doing what the people who understood finance recommended. So America's wealth was given away, trillions disappearing down black holes labelled "stimulus packages," and the "lords" becoming more wealthy and powerful, and closer to achieving a modern day feudal system. This destruction is far from complete.

Serfs are preferable to slaves. They replace themselves more efficiently and require less maintenance.



You see the people behind this, despite temporarily making America rich, powerful and hated through their actions, were never Americans at heart. They lack the ability to ever be more than traitors, lusting after power and living constantly with a knife in hand to stab a friend in the back, but ever aware of the garrotte at their own throat to keep them in line.

These are the cultured, educated, gracious ones, who have long lost anything resembling a conscience, and calmly believe in their absolute right use and abuse the "lower classes", (which includes many who consider themselves rich and powerful,) as the whim takes them.

Back to the Ukraine, in October the President made it clear he would not be bound by the murderous edicts of the IMF, and was going to increase wages and pensions instead of decreasing them. Rebellion against injustice has a habit of spreading if not nipped firmly in the bud, so something drastic had to be done. Yushchenko had also refused to pass legislation indemnifying Baxter against damages should their swine vaccine do damage, or to place orders for it.

So TPTB had a little chat to Baxter, who had already done them the favour of trying to release a deadly H5N1 virus throughout Europe. (What they released was a concentrate to create a live nasal spray vaccine in which weakened H3N2 was used as a vector for something, I haven't been able to find out what, and live, non-attenuated H5N1 was also present.)

Baxter had been persuaded that they could get away with treating immunisation as a protection racket so they could be used as as a big stick to hit non-compliant countries. Now they were unleashed, told they could punish the Ukraine for not paying up, and at the same time frighten other countries into buying vaccines when they were told. (Advised by the WHO.) The method was simple. All they had to do was get on a a few buses going from their Ukraine facility to Lviv, and spray a few perfume atomisers of swine flu virus around.

This set up the Ukraine for serious testing. First the WHO persuaded the health minister to authorise aerial spraying of a hydrogen peroxide mixture in order to disinfect any outdoor surfaces the virus may be on. Then the Russians were persuaded to use their agents to replace some hydrogen peroxide canisters with a weaponised bacteria, (the green goo found on windows). Thus giving their photogenic protégé, Yulia Tymoshenko, an excuse to get lots of television time, playing the grande heroine as she brings in emergency medication and poses in hospitals.

At the same time the subterranean gas storage facility stationed at Caucasus Emirate , from which the Ukraine gets all their natural gas for heating, was blown up.
www.kavkazcenter.com...
Many Ukrainians live in high rise blocks of units owned and heated with the government. Now they are left freezing, making them more vulnerable to illness, (particularly TB,) and they are angry at Yushchenko for not turning on the heating.


Russia is determined to wrest control of the Ukraine from the America-friendly Yushchenko before the Presidential election on January 17, 2010. They fear he will sign a deal now on the table with America, to install facilities there for the missile shield, possibly making it feasible for NATO to launch a strike against Russia without fear of retaliation.
www.kavkazcenter.com...


Now the problem for the TPTB is to work out why this attack on the Ukraine killed so few. These "lower classes" are proving far more resilient than believed, especially in places where the propaganda against traditional cures has been ineffective. As with 9/11, the destruction we see is a pathetic failure compared with the devastation which was planned.


What these power hungry elites don't understand is that they are only playing their predetermined roles in the MMRPG which our universe really is. They cannot win unless we give turn our backs on the adventure and give up the fight. Having stepped over to the other side and come back, I know that there is nothing to fear in death, the only thing to fear is wasting this life by not staying true to one's own ideals and throwing oneself into one's role with joy and enthusiasm.


We are not headed for destruction. We are headed for a huge adventure and this is a wonderful time to be alive!

reply to post by calohan

If people wish to find the true “swine” source of rising TB deaths in Ukraine, they perhaps should look to the effects of the IMF loans on the health standards of the population and not to an unproven hypothetical so-called Swine Flu H1N1 virus.

Thank you, thank you, thank you for your insights and your input. You have brought a bright torch to light the dark corners of this scenario in Ukraine. The stuff in your post is not new, but enlightening neverthless because we are so easily sidetracked and bamboozled by the MSM/WHO UN propaganda.

I eagerly look forward to more from you as this event progresses. We all have a lot to learn about the secrets hidden in front of our eyes.

Ok, so what is the current effective remedy?

Originally posted by JJay55
Ok, so what is the current effective remedy?

Onion and company.
That is pretty obvious

Originally posted by zeddissad

Originally posted by JJay55
Ok, so what is the current effective remedy?

Onion and company.
That is pretty obvious

yep, that's what I gathered too.

Could it be that we are just a subject of Sesame Street and counting along?
Death rate extrapolations for USA for Flu: 63,729 per year, 5,310 per month, 1,225 per week, 174 per day, 7 per hour, 0 per minute, 0 per second. Note: this automatic extrapolation calculation uses the deaths statistic: 63,730 annual deaths for influenza and pneumonia (NVSR Sep 2001); estimated 20,000 deaths from flu (NIAID)

Or are we above these figures already?

reply to post by Kailassa


Star and applause! It's time to draw out some conclusions from this Ukraine mess and you brought generalized and consistent view. My picture isn't so rich as yours but I agree with yours narrative.

reply to post by Kailassa


Just about the best thought out argument I've read anywhere. Well done!