Number of victims to unknown virus growing! State of emergency to be imposed in Ukraine?

See Google flu trends in Ukraine:
www.google.org...
The rate of infection so far seems to be exponential.

Originally posted by Luppakorva
reply to post by ecoparity

 

Well.. I highly doubt any of my friends in there go voluntarily into the hospital at the moment

. Let me see if I can help in any way though, I can ask them to find some.

Here's some photos in overall by the way, couple from hospitals as well.

I'm not sure have you seen, if not take a look:
photo.unian.net...

Thanks, that's more than I've seen so far. All the news media reports just show the photo ops of various ministers. There's a lot of the usual "mask" photos.

During Mexico City a photo journalist got into one of the big hospitals downtown and uploaded the most amazing photos to his twitter account.

What was so great was his photos of the computer screens of the health minister and other officials at a meeting. They showed the real statistics and breakdowns of fatalities, locations and so on and by looking at those we could see the WHO and media were lying immediately. His photos showed the Mexico victims who had hemorrhagic fever from the swine flu which is what told us the virus was a lot worse than the media was reporting.

That Kavkazcenter.com article is interesting, but I wrote them off as a credible source yesterday, because their article yesterday did nothing but repeat rumors.
(which I am guilty of too, but I don't claim to be a news source)..

Also, if you read the history of their site, they obviously have an agenda of their own.

And this is coming from a guy who recently converted to Islam (from atheism).

Still, their coverage of this event shouldn't be trusted, as they are doing the same thing as us... Sitting on the internet many miles away from the event, trying to find something out.

Also, I do think there is lots of evidence of cover-ups at this point, but the analysis of the numbers (by above posters) has shown that this can not be "pneumonic plague" in the LITERAL meaning, but that a mutation is looking more and more likely.

If this IS pneumonic plague, it would kill itself out pretty easily if they make quarantines serious. It has a short incubation period and near 100% kill rate.
The kill rates don't match up...

But the kill rates for novel h1n1 don't match up either...

[edit on 4-11-2009 by seattletruth]

From page 38 I have said this is a Hemorrhagic Virus, looks like that such as

Marburg or Spanish Flu 1918! I even posted links to the different types of

hemorrhagic virus' and listed the symptoms.I NEVER MENTIONED THE PLAGUE!!

Some of you at least looked at the possibility.....

What do you have to say now ECO?????! Oh I know, I don't know what I am talking about do I? You have said nothing to my inquiries regarding your background or working knowledge that allows you to speak to this with such arrogant authority!!

You had the nerve to ask me if I was in the Ukraine doing studies on samples postmortem? As if that is where you are conducting your half cocked stories Please!

You see Eco,in order to get the gist of what is going on here you need a least the basic understanding of how the human body works, the ability to research and oh yeah, a little common sense doesn't hurt.
Instead, you got people to swallow this line: There is no regular flu, it is all H1N1 now! Really, you don't say? Well please then, explain this, be sure an elaborate, don't hold back.

With the combination of seasonal influenza and the novel H1N1 ("swine flu") pandemic, this flu season may be particularly severe. This site is designed to help you understand both types of influenza and what you can do to protect yourself and your family.

link:www.emoryhealthcare.org...

Get vaccinated. Vaccination is the best protection we have against flu. Seasonal flu vaccine is available now and initial doses of 2009 H1N1 flu vaccine also are available, with additional doses available later this year.

link: www.cdc.gov...

I think you get the idea. Why on earth would you come on here and tell the members this? O.K. so maybe you made a mistake? or your source lied?
who knows? The only thing you have managed to do to anyone who shares a differing opinion is attack them and do your best to discredit them, but even more egregious lie to them about things that may or may not save their lives.

Now let's you and I get a few things straight. I'm not "one of your own" that needs mollycoddling or hand holding. I will put my medical background up against your remote viewing anytime say when and where.

You have mislead many and underestimated me Eco, so for the record I'd like to present some facts and let the readers decide.

Here is some medical terminology that has been tossed about this thread that needs some clarification. It is not my intention to be condescending to anyone I just think you deserve some truth.

Pneumonia: Pneumonia is a respiratory condition in which there is inflammation of the lung.

Community-acquired pneumonia refers to pneumonia in people who have not recently been in the hospital or another health care facility (nursing home, rehabilitation facility).


Pneumonia is a common illness that affects millions of people each year in the United States. Germs called bacteria, viruses, and fungi may cause pneumonia.

Ways you can get pneumonia include:

* Bacteria and viruses living in your nose, sinuses, or mouth may spread to your lungs.
* You may breathe some of these germs directly into your lungs.
* You breathe in (inhale) food, liquids, vomit, or secretions from the mouth into your lungs (aspiration pneumonia)

Pneumonia caused by bacteria tends to be the most serious. In adults, bacteria are the most common cause of pneumonia.

* The most common pneumonia-causing germ in adults is Streptococcus pneumoniae (pneumococcus).
* Atypical pneumonia, often called walking pneumonia, is caused by bacteria such as Legionella pneumophila, Mycoplasma pneumoniae, and Chlamydophila pneumoniae.
* Pneumocystis jiroveci pneumonia is sometimes seen in people whose immune system is impaired (due to AIDS or certain medications that suppress the immune system).
* Staphylococcus aureus, Moraxella catarrhalis, Streptococcus pyogenes, Neisseria meningitidis, Klebsiella pneumoniae, or Haemophilus influenzae are other bacteria that can cause pneumonia.
* Tuberculosis can cause pneumonia in some people, especially those with a weak immune system.

link:www.nlm.nih.gov...

Notice this symptom coughing up bloody mucus This is a condition called hemoptysis.

Hemoptysis: Spitting up blood or blood-tinged sputum. Pronounced he-MOP-tis-is.

The word "hemoptysis" comes from the Greek "haima" for "blood" + "ptysis" meaning "a spitting" = a spitting of blood. The source of the blood was originally not specified but now refers only to blood from the respiratory tract.

link:[www.medterms.com...]

Hemorrhaging: Definition of Hemorrhage

Hemorrhage: Bleeding or the abnormal flow of blood. The patient may have an internal hemorrhage that is invisible or an external hemorrhage that is visible on the outside of the body. Bleeding into the spleen or liver is internal hemorrhage. Bleeding from a cut on the face is an external hemorrhage. The term "hemorrhagic" comes from the Greek "haima," blood + rhegnumai," to break forth = a free and forceful escape of blood.

link:www.medterms.com...

As you can see, they are quite different. Typical Pneumonia does not cause hemorrhage.

The Spanish Flu of 1918 caused Massive hemorrhaging. which inturn made this flu strain a "Hemorrhagic Virus" The kind of virus that can and most likely will kill within 24hrs.

There are many links and reports of the Spanish Flu doing just this posted throughout Ats so I don't find it necessary to re post those. There have also been many reports coming from Ukraine and the surrounding countries. I no more want to believe this is true than the next person, however, it is my opinion that it is better to be armed with facts, than a lot of wishful thinking.

I pray for everyone involved this is not the case, but if you really think about it, why else would there be almost a complete media blackout in the West? News like this would start a world wide panic!

I do not wish to spread propaganda nor fear here, but I could no longer turn a blind eye to what is happening in this thread. The hijacking and manipulation that has taken place over this topic is not necessary. I challenge each and every one of you to do your own research. Do not take my word, seek the truth for yourself, but please do not let someone who refuses to ever link an article or speak about the reason he is so "privy to inside knowledge" tell you what you can and cannot believe.

Thank you for your time and allowing me the freedom to speak my mind.

Sincerely,
Paxnatus


MOD NOTE: Go after the ball not the player.

MOD NOTE: Posting work written by others

[edit on Wed Nov 4 2009 by DontTreadOnMe]

reply to post by ecoparity


Wow...

So in the end, those statistics, did they turn out to be correct? I mean did they release them bit by bit so the truth came out in the end or we are never going to know the actual amount of dead?

"In addition to the known types of flue, there is a new one which may be different from the swine flue. It kills and there are no tested pharmaceuticals against it, says Ukraine Minister of Health Vasyl Knyazevych.
In response to the call for help from Ukraine, doctors from neighboring European countries have come to examine a reportedly new variety of the flue. It will take several days for them to give their verdict. "

source

Anyone else found anything about "a new type of flu"......?

reply to post by cosmicpixie


First time I actually hear about it. I have to try to find that from other source as well.

..But I would bear in mind the rest of that news as well. ..Again the phrase politics, politics, politics ...I know.. it starts to sound old but seems that's just the way it is

reply to post by paxnatus


I agree about posting with "inside knowledge".. Nobody is going to give credibility to anything anyone says without SEEING SOURCES... So why bother citing it as fact, and saying "well you should just trust me on it". My government tells me to "just trust them", too. Obviously we've ALL learned to not simply trust ANYONE, thats why we are all members of ATS!

However a couple of people post on this thread 100 or so times a day citing their "inside knowledge" and "secret sources", like they are SPECIAL.. For one, nobody is impressed that you have friends. And two, nobody is going to believe your word except YOU, so why bother shoving it down peoples throats a 100 times a day.

Then feathers get all ruffled when anybody questions the SECRET sources.

Really to me it seems more about ego, for them to feel like they are "part of the cool kids club", and they are gonna just relay the information down to our eager, trusting ears.

Originally posted by itstheendoftheworldaswekn
Just seen this news released on the main MSM news website over here(Ireland). It looks like the stakes may be getting higher :

Swine flu is killing more than a tenth of those it infects in California and up to 20% of older victims, a study has shown.

Researchers in the US state also found almost a third of cases required intensive care treatment. Hospital admissions and death could occur "at all ages".

The findings, published in the Journal of the American Medical Association (Jama), fly in the face of common perceptions of swine flu being a generally mild illness.

The US researchers looked at 1,088 cases of swine flu reported in California between April 23 and August 11 this year.

Of these, 32% were children under the age of 18, with infants having the highest rates of hospital admissions. The midpoint age of patients was 27.

In total, 340 patients (31%) were admitted to hospital intensive care units. Of the 297 intensive care cases for whom information was available, 65% required mechanical ventilation.

Chest X-rays of 833 patients revealed indications of pneumonia or acute respiratory distress syndrome.

The researchers recorded 118 deaths. Fatalities were most common among people aged 50 and over, who had a mortality rate of between 18% and 20%. Seven per cent of deaths were among children younger than 18.

Among fatal cases, it typically took just 12 days after the onset of symptoms for the patient to die. The most common causes of death were viral pneumonia and acute respiratory distress syndrome.




---------------------------

More than a 10% of people that are infected are DYING in California. ? Are you sure? If so this is massively bad news. can you provide a link for that new article

[edit on 4-11-2009 by tarifa37]

reply to post by paxnatus


I'm sorry you shot your mouth off and embarrassed yourself but I'm not here to answer entire page long rants.

You claimed this could not be H1N1 because of the hemorrhagic fever symptoms. As a "nurse" you should know that swine flu can cause it, same as the other possible illnesses you cited. That was your position, plain and simple - "Its not H1N1, Mr always H1N1" blah blah blah

Don't try and change your position now, stick with it. The WHO is running the tests and we'll know for sure in a matter of hours (they've already announced its H1N1 but at least we can find out if it mutated).

The information on H1N1 displacing seasonal flu is from Dr Henry Niman. If you have a problem with that info go argue with him about it, I quoted him and attributed the quote to him with a link. Go explain to him why a bunch of website headers with bad information on them disprove his opinion as a virologist.

That's as far as I think we need to go, I'm not even going to bother to read past the first paragraph of that dictionary of PMS angst you just posted.

I have not made a single claim in this thread attributed to sources other than public, link provided for ones. If you want to challenge the information then do so, if you want to fight with me you know how to contact me.




[edit on 4-11-2009 by ecoparity]

Jesus [SNIP] christ.

Am out of this thread right [SNIP] now. It's just going into finger pointing and accusing each others from various things. "this said that, and that guy over there said this while the third...". I feel like I'm back to school when I was 12 to be honest.

Some of you ask you to give any info you got, will deliver, no problem.

After doing so, some angry schoolboys/girls with bad attitude problem when he's / her made up / out of context / based to nothing / easily explained theory is rejected, not accepted or outplayed, comes to ridicule it or complains why it is posted in the first place since he thinks it's boring and not worth of it while it actually been asked by people in the thread. There's lots of posts which I don't agree with, but I don't attack every invidual personally for posting them as some seem to do when it's not something they want to read. I was hoping to get information and share it, not to waste my time to this what I'm actually doing right now.

I don't understand why some of you are so unbelievably bitter if proofed wrong or your theories are questioned, for you guys, grow up. Maybe it's just you're too immature to have any real discussion where you sometimes got to admit you're wrong or maybe you guys are just looking for fight, or maybe the reason is something different, only god knows.

Either way, I'm continuing to look into this on my own from now on. Am not wasting my time with ridiculous finger pointing, listening to be accused and explaining to those attackers constantly what's wrong with their attitude. Makes me wonder though..

I have friends in there, for some I haven't been able to be connect, for some yes, I also have friend's friends in there and even a couple who live abroad but are from there. I worry for them, but also get a lots of information from them. But naturally some people here has to ridicule everything mainly based on the reasons I mentioned above. I know that if I would mention them to tell me there's people dying to streets and burned in piles because of plague, you all would admit, but since am telling that there really is nothing much going on, am attacked. And Yes I have other sources as well. IF as simple thing why they are secret because of the sensitivity is something what can't be understood, you know what guys, fine. It's safer for me to shut up from that info I'm getting anyways.

Pointless.

And thanks for those few who really were helpful here in this thread, no matter did you disagree with me or not, and thanks for the OP about all the information he provided as well.

Mod Edit: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.


[edit on 4-11-2009 by Gemwolf]

Originally posted by Luppakorva
reply to post by ecoparity

 

Wow...

So in the end, those statistics, did they turn out to be correct? I mean did they release them bit by bit so the truth came out in the end or we are never going to know the actual amount of dead?

They matched up with the stats before the WHO reclassified all but a dozen or so as "respiratory illness". Technically not a lie, they drowned in thier own blood after all but the cause was swine flu. It's just part of the pattern the WHO and CDC use to downplay the virus.

Well we can't have it all ways so which is it?
One moment WHO is being accused of fear mongering and hype to get us to take the vaccine, next they are being accused of downplaying stuff.
I'm confused!

Originally posted by seattletruth
reply to post by paxnatus

 

I agree about posting with "inside knowledge".. Nobody is going to give credibility to anything anyone says without SEEING SOURCES... So why bother citing it as fact, and saying "well you should just trust me on it". My government tells me to "just trust them", too. Obviously we've ALL learned to not simply trust ANYONE, thats why we are all members of ATS!

However a couple of people post on this thread 100 or so times a day citing their "inside knowledge" and "secret sources", like they are SPECIAL.. For one, nobody is impressed that you have friends. And two, nobody is going to believe your word except YOU, so why bother shoving it down peoples throats a 100 times a day.

Then feathers get all ruffled when anybody questions the SECRET sources.

Really to me it seems more about ego, for them to feel like they are "part of the cool kids club", and they are gonna just relay the information down to our eager, trusting ears.

Who's posting info on this thread and attributing it to "inside sources"? can you point out some of these because I haven't seen it. I know in my own case I don't share any information from my real life contacts on ATS now, only sources I can provide a link for.

The problem is that even if the information you're giving people is good and from excellent sources people start demanding to know names and see emails. If you were passing information on from someone who would suffer damage to their reputation and career if they were associated with ATS would you be willing to throw them under the bus like that?

In most cases we can evaluate the information on its own. Most of the time the demand for sources is just so people can attack the source and ignore the information anyway but as a result of all this we miss out on a lot of information.

There are posters on ATS with amazing connections and I for one would rather at least have the chance to see their info and hear the stories than not. Oh well, like other people I've learned better and ATS is a lesser place for it. (Not because of me per se, I'm referring to some of the UFO and conspiracy sources I know for a fact certain members are in touch with).

reply to post by paxnatus


Thank you for that clear and comphrehensive post! Your post is exactly what this thread is about ... the "unknown illness" and your definitions will help some people.

The Ukrainian doctors knew from the beginning that most of the cases they were concerned about tested negative for H1N1.

While the concurrent H1N1 epidemic in the Ukraine confuses the situation, and may be related ... the main topic of this thread is the "unknown illness". It will still be another WEEK before they get the reports from England! So hang in there and be patient.

Thank you again!

Reminder to thread-hijackers - stay ON TOPIC! This is not a "swine flu" thread.

Originally posted by unicorn1
Well we can't have it all ways so which is it?
One moment WHO is being accused of fear mongering and hype to get us to take the vaccine, next they are being accused of downplaying stuff.
I'm confused!

The WHO and CDC have consistently downplayed the number of deaths and cause of deaths in relation to swine flu. Any "hype" as in trying to scare people into taking the vaccines is either coming from other places or they're playing both sides.

To me its always looked like a dual headed monster - they want people to take the vaccines and let them enact all these new policies but they don't want to panic people to the point where they stop going to the mall and work.

Someone else posted the WHO charter here a long time ago and the primary mission of the WHO is to preserve trade. Not save lives - to keep economies going. That explains it all AFAIC.

Moderator Note

As heated as disagreements may get, please address the topic and not the person. Argue the opinion rather than attacking the person. This goes for both sides of the argument. Failure to do so will result in removal of posts and point deduction.

reply to post by Trexter Ziam


They only have 200 test kits for swine flu in the entire country and have not tested most of the infected or dead.

So, if it's not swine flu causing all those deaths and infections what do you think it is?

Thanks for showing up on page 100+ and telling us all what we can and can't talk about also.

Originally posted by ahemot
Removed by moderator for T&C violation

Show the lies then. Stop attacking me personally and attack the information.



[edit on 4-11-2009 by ecoparity]