Why would the idea of a gay man frighten other males so much?

Originally posted by RoyalCanadian
i dont have an issue with gay people but gay parades, really tick me off. if you want to be gay dont parade down the street in a big float. kids could see that stuff.

Pretty sure thats the point, so a young gay child can look at that and say "you know what im not a monster and people do celebrate my way of life."
.
Most gay people are aware of it at a pretty young age, if i were a homosexual i would find great comfort and PRIDE in those parades.
.
However you may have been reffering to kids such as under the age of 5 at which point i agree with you, but some of that (all of) responsability has to be at the parents to not expose their young children to that.

Originally posted by acmpnsfal
reply to post by Death_Kron

 

Ok so what would you consider more feminine without being campy? What is the cut off point where you say "oh that guy moved past feminine and is now campy?"

Well obviously thats down to individual interpretation and what I view as campy might not be necessarily what someone else thinks.

I think its possible for a man to be more feminine than other men and be straight, I also think thats possible in the case of a homosexual man.

A straight man can have a higher pitched voice than normal and so can a gay man.

But its from my observation and personal experiences these camp qualities seem to be present in the majority of homosexual men.

However there are also homosexual man who do not display these characteristics so to me that rules out a biological reason and thus I arrive at the conclusion that this behavior is "put on"

Interestingly enough I had a friend that from childhood that was more feminine that the rest of my male friends and sure enough he turned out to be gay, we always viewed him as being gay because of the girly way he acted.

I suppose the question is why are some gay men like this and others not.

As XXXN30 said above he witnessed a work colleague declare himself gay then suddenly started acting in a camp manner when he did not previous, that suggests its obviously controllable.

I know a male friend who gets very upset about things (a feminine quality) more so than all my other male friends and myself but he isn't gay, in fact he's in a perfectly heterosexual relationship.

He could also by no means be described as camp.

So, it definately is possible to be more feminine than usual (for a man) and not be camp.

Just the same as you get some women who display more masculine qualities but are by no means homosexual.

Make sense?

[edit on 29/10/09 by Death_Kron]

reply to post by Death_Kron

Ok how about this, all behavior is controllable, we learn at a very young age whats appropriate and whats not. We learn restraint and discipline in certain situations so that we do not violate the social laws of society. Now the co-worker could have always acted that way with his gay crowd and then once he came out he felt comfortable with doing it all around.

In my case, people often don't suspect that I am gay unless I get mad or more specifically into an argument in which case I turn into what people call a "queen." But I would argue that since we have no idea how many gay men are actually out there we should just limit this to openly gay men. There are many openly gay men who nobody knows are gay because they dont act "campy." So I dont know that you could say most openly gay men display those traits.

Originally posted by Hack28

Originally posted by RoyalCanadian
i dont have an issue with gay people but gay parades, really tick me off. if you want to be gay dont parade down the street in a big float. kids could see that stuff.

Pretty sure thats the point, so a young gay child can look at that and say "you know what im not a monster and people do celebrate my way of life."
.
Most gay people are aware of it at a pretty young age, if i were a homosexual i would find great comfort and PRIDE in those parades.
.
However you may have been reffering to kids such as under the age of 5 at which point i agree with you, but some of that (all of) responsability has to be at the parents to not expose their young children to that.

I totally agree with this, this normalizes orientation to children and increases their core confidence in themselves. It also shows them that there is joy and value and beauty in all expressions of normal healthy expressions of life, that life is a gift to be valued and cherished, and celebrated. And that hiding ones orientation is harming self, but making the right choice in partner, in the open, is instrinsic to the basic rights of all living beings.

[edit on 29-10-2009 by Unity_99]

reply to post by Death_Kron


Going from having a voice like this....



to this...



Literally after saying I am gay is acting.

Going from this...



to this....



In a second is acting.

I cannot see how coming out of the closet changes the way you have walked and talked all your life?

Why do people call anyone homophobic when they ask why you are acting like this after a lifetime of not acting like this?

I am not saying nobody is born like this but I certainly cannot see why someone changes at the second they say to someone, I am gay.

[edit on 29-10-2009 by XXXN3O]

reply to post by acmpnsfal

Now the co-worker could have always acted that way with his gay crowd and then once he came out he felt comfortable with doing it all around.

I will concede that is a good point.

There are many openly gay men who nobody knows are gay because they dont act "campy."

Probably, but I'm also sure there are openly gay men who are not campy.

The question is what is the link between being camp and being gay?

We have already established that not all homosexual men are camp.

Another interesting question is why would someone who was attracted to someone his own sex display characteristics mainly present in the opposite sex he isn't attracted too?

Sorry I didnt realise you was gay yourself, let me ask you a question then; why are you not campy? I presume your not because you said most people wouldn't realise you were gay under normal circumstances.

reply to post by XXXN3O


Thanks for that mate, thats exactly what I'm talking about.

I cannot see how coming out of the closet changes the way you have walked and talked all your life?

Precisely.

I am not saying nobody is born like this but I certainly cannot see why someone changes at the second they say to someone, I am gay.

Again, spot on! I really don't see why either!

reply to post by Death_Kron

Well I guess for the whole campy question or as to why a man would display characteristics of the sex he is not attracted to would be the whole domination element that is usually present in most relationship. I mean for gay men there are tops and bottoms (but not all bottoms are feminine and not all tops are masculine) I guess it all boils down to personal preference. So that is a possible source for being campy.

As for me, I am not sure why im not campy. I mean when im with my lesbian friend we play around and I pretend to be campy just to make her mad but its really just not my thing. To be fair I have always identified with the image of a strong woman more than the image of a strong man. But anyway people dont assume im gay because: I have a deep voice, I dont fawn over men, I guess I carry myself in a fairly masculine manner and im not overly fashionable. But when people are around me enough it becomes apparent and there is always that awkward moment when they decide to ask and I end up answering the question before they ask.


[edit on 29-10-2009 by acmpnsfal]

[edit on 29-10-2009 by acmpnsfal]

To the OP:

Personally I think it is because the guys think gay dudes might be checking them out.

Also maybe a little bit of revulsion at the idea of male feces smeared on a man's penis. (Sorry mods, I tried to phrase it as cleanly as possible. Think about that.)

I have noticed that there is a huge double standard as applies to lesbians/gay dudes. Most men and a lot of women are totally comfortable watching two women kiss on a television screen, but both sexes get freaked out when two dudes do it.

Having said all that, I do think that the men who get all overboard with the gay-bashing are compensating for something. They should probably go to a gay bar, meet a nice young man, and get a room.

reply to post by acmpnsfal


I suppose that could be one reason, as you said in same sex relationships there is a dominant partner and a submissive partner.

I don't understand why being attracted to the same sex would make you put on a high pitched voice etc

The above videos XXXN30 posted highlight what I'm talking about brilliantly. Oh well each to their I suppose, I still find it incredibly annoying but who am I to judge?

reply to post by Death_Kron

The above videos, at least the walk, could apply to anybody. Some women switch, some dont. Some can walk in heels. Some cant. Also, there are the straight men who cross dress and walk just like that arent gay or flamboyant but they enjoy the feeling of having a female alter-ego. But I appreciate the "who am I to judge"

Originally posted by acmpnsfal
reply to post by Death_Kron

 

The above videos, at least the walk, could apply to anybody. Some women switch, some dont. Some can walk in heels. Some cant. Also, there are the straight men who cross dress and walk just like that arent gay or flamboyant but they enjoy the feeling of having a female alter-ego. But I appreciate the "who am I to judge"

Yeah I suppose, it just seems more common in gay men.

But like I said I don't have a problem with gay people.

Originally posted by andy1033
reply to post by Death_Kron

 

Shall i say this slowly for you, i am not on tablets, i have known that i stunbled across the fact they use electronic mind control in schools in 1992. Do you understand if i say it slowly.

Woah, slow down, you are typing it way too fast !!

You should know, albeit I believe you might already, that wording things you type does not translate to the typed form.

I think you started this thread simply to argue. You asked for reasons for your query, were given the obvious answers, continued to restate your opening opinion, and now resort to mind control claims and insults.

How do you know they didn't implant your desire for males, as a test to see how far they can make a man go for their cause? 18 and a half years ago, we were resear...

Perhaps I have said too much.

Did i say that slowly enough for you?

Nope, you need to use dialup to get the point across.

Lol, sorry for the ot post. This threads gone a bit askew. I've nothing more to ad, if this is all thats left.

(Perhaps I do believe in mind control of sorts, but not the sort put forth here - that has another name)

reply to post by Death_Kron

I think you meant more commonly openly displayed amongst gay men. But in any case I think it all boils down to personal creativity and expression/genetics/how and where you were raised

reply to post by Ha`la`tha

This threads gone a bit askew.

It was that way to start with. The OP's initial assertion/belief about why straight guys hate him, or that they even do for that matter, was wrong. His pretense of asking a question was false. He only was looking for affirmation of his delusion. He had no interest in what anyone actually thought unless it supported his fears.

Sometimes people act a bit bizarre once they have come out simply because there is a lot of pressure that built up while they were trying to hide their identity. There's a lot of steam to blow off! They go too far. Usually they calm down.

Yes, they sometimes resort to camp behaviour that is "put on". Is it really that different from the macho kind of camp that some guys put on when they are in a group of other straight macho guys? Their behaviour changes too from what it is in mixed company, and can be just as aggravating.

I can't stand gay camp, and I can't stand super macho bravado. In the end, some people just think they have to put on a show. You have the intellectuals, the religious, and a whole bunch of other categories where people feel they have to wear a big, bright flashing badge that announces who they are.

Its so much nicer when people can just be people. I really enjoy those sorts regardless of their sexuality, intelligence, wealth; etc. etc..

reply to post by Vicious Jones


When my generation was young, someone who hit on you was insulting your character and could go to jail as a masher. Now we have to worry that we might be committing hate crime if we reject advances from perverts. Or call them perverts.

What the whole thing boils down to is that the antichrist is gay, probably because gay is evil. Therefor gays have to be exalted in order to usher in the antichrist.

Originally posted by acmpnsfal
reply to post by Death_Kron

 

Ok so what would you consider more feminine without being campy? What is the cut off point where you say "oh that guy moved past feminine and is now campy?"

I dont know if you've ever noticed, but a lot of " camp " people are sort of " Girly x 1000 " whilst most females except those around 10 years old arent... so thats where I would draw the line between feminin and camp.

[edit on 29/10/09 by dawa]

reply to post by wayno


100% Agree!

Damn, not much else to add than that, well said.

I'll now go deduct 20 points and give myself a warning for making a "Me Too" post..

Despite the labels in almost every case fear has nothing to do with it. I think that most people simply prefer to be around people who are most like themselves. The people who you probably mean to take issue with are the people who go out of there way in an attempt to harass or bother people who are not in there own group.

From this you have labels such as Homophobes who go out of there way to offend Homosexuals, Christophobes who go out of there way to offend Christians, Xenophobes for strangers etc. etc. But none of them are truly phobias despite popular culture having labeled them as such, the more appropriate term would be "Derangement Syndrome" and it is these deranged individuals who are in fact dangerous, threatening, and volatile to such an extent that they border on criminal behavior at any given time.