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Why would the idea of a gay man frighten other males so much?

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posted on Oct, 29 2009 @ 03:43 AM
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I am a gay person but see no reason to "Flaunt" the fact, no high pitched voice, limp wrist or up the crack shorts!
I enjoy working on my car, building a koi pond, repairs around the house!
What I do in the bedroom stays in the bedroom where it belongs!
I, personally, can't stand camp men, and it is them that most people think of when they say "gay", and it is THEM that cause the distrust and/or dislike of gays
I don't believe that we are hated the way Andy says or for the reason he says, I DO think that he probably has a high pitched voice and needs some therapy for his "perceived" injustices!




posted on Oct, 29 2009 @ 03:50 AM
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Just a quick ps.

I would rather go camping in the desert than on the high street.

I think that I too would be afraid of Andy!

I don't see the reason for this thread!!! Other than its cheaper, but less effective than the therapy he so obviously needs.



posted on Oct, 29 2009 @ 04:18 AM
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If one man is homophobic, that doesn't make him a gay, or closet gay.

Just as if a man is scared of spiders, that itself doesn't make him, well, a spider.

I have a little problem with gays, although only, curiosity of 'why'.

Other then that, I don't care.


As long as their happy, I can have more women!



posted on Oct, 29 2009 @ 05:03 AM
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Originally posted by andy1033
I am on another board ta the mo, and you get the usual, gays are disgusting in threads. I wonder what is it about gays that really trouble straight males?



What do you guys think, about this, and whats the real, reason why you people think straight males hate gay males so much? Personally i think its no1, but of course there are lots of bi males, who can have sex with both males and females, but i am talking about all out gay males.


The problem i have with your comments here seems to suggest that all straight males hate or are fearful of gay men. We're not all like that.

However for the ones that are i think there are many reasons. Firstly if they have been brought up to hate gay people then they will hate them, this is just how they were raised. Secondly if they are insecure in themselves then again they could hate them. Finally i think it's an alpha male thing.

Our ancestors may have used sex as a domination thing, just like in prison so maybe they fear them for that reason.



posted on Oct, 29 2009 @ 05:08 AM
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I admit the first time I saw two guys kiss, it threw me off a little. I mean, I'm just a small town Cincinnati boy and this was like, "Jeepers!" However, it didn't fill me with hate or make me want to harm anyone. Anyway, I'm over it and it really doesn't even register anymore. Everyone has the right to love, straight, gay, lesbian, bi, whatever. I think homophobia has more to do with their own sexuality than it does with anyone else's.



posted on Oct, 29 2009 @ 05:24 AM
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I am not scared of gay men and I don't think the majority of males are frightened by them either.

I do not agree or accept with what they do but like an above poster mentioned I will tolerate it, each to their as they say but I don't agree with it being shoved in front of my face by public displays of homosexual affection and the like.

This so far has been a pretty level headed thread which I'm glad to see as usually this type of subject matter rapidly crumbles into a debate between the supporters and the haters.

As someone else has also mentioned god or whoever created man and women did so to reproduce, it isn't natural for two members of the same gender to have sex, Period.

With regards to one of the points made in the OP I think its pretty stupid to say straight men dislike gays because of their preference regarding genitalia.

I have no problem with gay men disliking the female sex organs, I find it highly strange yes but as I mentioned before each to their own.

I simply do not like what gay men or women do, I'm not frightened by them in any shape or form.

I would probably also feel slightly strange if I was in the company of a gay man and I knew he liked me in that way, the thought of another man wanting to have anal sex with me is disgusting in my opinion.

As someone else has also mentioned what is it with that "gay voice"? Thats something I really cannot stand and I'm pretty sure is put on!

I'll also point out that my mother knows a gay man who in every other respect would be seen as the stereotypical macho bloke. He is a bodybuilder, is obsessed with boys toys, drinks beer, watches the football but he is gay.

He however does not flaunt it, does not act it and definately doesn't have that gay voice.

In my opinion gays would be accepted alot more if they didn't flaunt their sexuality. I appreciate that some men are more feminine than others but come on surely the whole voice thing etc is taking it a bit too far?



posted on Oct, 29 2009 @ 05:31 AM
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Originally posted by wiser3
I am a gay person but see no reason to "Flaunt" the fact, no high pitched voice, limp wrist or up the crack shorts!
I enjoy working on my car, building a koi pond, repairs around the house!
What I do in the bedroom stays in the bedroom where it belongs!
I, personally, can't stand camp men, and it is them that most people think of when they say "gay", and it is THEM that cause the distrust and/or dislike of gays
I don't believe that we are hated the way Andy says or for the reason he says, I DO think that he probably has a high pitched voice and needs some therapy for his "perceived" injustices!


Starred your post, thankyou sir!

While as I have said above I do not agree with your sexuality and as someone has mentioned I would like to understand better but each to their own.

Your not flaunting your sexuality in any way, shape or form that would annoy others and don't take this the wrong way but you appear to be a normal bloke.

I'm not keen on using the word normal as it implies you are abnormal but I mean you display masculine qualities not the squeaky, high pitched voice etc

As I said some men are definately more feminine than others but that doesnt make them gay and I'm sure the whole voice thing etc is put on.

Your are not forcing your sexuality on anyone and are keeping it to yourself, which is where it belongs.

Like I said don't take any offence at my usage of the word normal, I'm not pulling you down or calling you in fact I'm actually praising you!




posted on Oct, 29 2009 @ 05:45 AM
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reply to post by Death_Kron
 


No offence taken! I appreciate your reply! My first star/flag!

I do believe in live and let live, but this whole dressing in womans clothes, wearing makeup, WHAT IS THAT?

I am a man, I prefer men who prefer men!

If I go around looking, walking, talking like a woman I don't think that I will ever find what I am looking for!



posted on Oct, 29 2009 @ 05:50 AM
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I have a hard time understanding something that keeps coming up over and over again in this thread. The whole, "I dont mind gay men as long as they are not flamboyant." Why does that fact matter as well? I mean I have met straight men who are more "flamboyant or feminine" for lack of better terms who are left alone and even have their own category-metrosexual. You cannot bash someone for being who they are, because someones body language makes you uncomfortable does not give you the right to dislike them. Or do you dislike metrosexuals as well? We need to let go of these anglo saxon gender roles/identities. Because they usually favor one obvious group that likes to play victim all the time but I wont go there.

And as for the complaints about straight men being hit on, women have been complaining about it for decades, you are just getting a taste of your own medicine, get over it. But I guess the same crowd would prefer looking at lipstick lesbians as opposed to butch lesbians.

[edit on 29-10-2009 by acmpnsfal]



posted on Oct, 29 2009 @ 06:09 AM
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reply to post by acmpnsfal
 



The whole, "I dont mind gay men as long as they are not flamboyant." Why does that fact matter as well?


Because its annoying! Its a scientific fact that some men maybe more feminine than others and I don't have a problem with that.

But why do they speak in a high pitched, squeaky voice? Theres simply no need for it and as of yet I don't think anyone has managed to answer that question in this thread.

People should be allowed to choose their own sexuality and thats fair enough but why flaunt it? I don't walk around trying to talk in a deep voice to prove that I'm straight so why should gays do the same to prove that they are not?


You cannot bash someone for being who they are, because someones body language makes you uncomfortable does not give you the right to dislike them.


People dislike being uncomfortable, if that is genuinely who they are then obviously it isn't there own fault. But is that really them?

I remember when I was at high school and there was a couple of friends of mine all of them were pretty intelligent and well dressed, all in all a nice bunch of lads.

However they decided to turn to the emo/goth culture and suddenly all personal hygience had gone out of the window, they talked in a funny voice and made silly noises, they regularly missed school, they became depressed and dumbed down their intelligence and one or two even started cutting themselves.

So they went from being normal, bright lads to depressed stinking idiots.

What annoyed me the most is that I knew these people were not being their actual, genuine selfs, none of those lads were stupid, none were depressed beforehand.

There is no need for gays people to throw their sexuality at people, I don't constantly emphasise how straight I am by talking about how the sight of a beautiful makes me feel so neither should gays by putting on that ridiculous voice.

If they naturally have a voice like that then that isnt there fault and I wouldnt have a problem but I'm pretty sure the majority of gays put it on.


We need to let go of these anglo saxon gender roles/identities.


So I presume your advocating a society where men speak like women, women speak and act like men, grown men throw tantrums in super markets, little boys dress like little girls ?



posted on Oct, 29 2009 @ 06:27 AM
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reply to post by Death_Kron
 


First of all, people don't "choose" their sexuality. If they did, it would be easy to switch for the ones who are unhappy with being gay wouldn't it? Who you are attracted to, your feelings, what turns you on are all dictated by chemical reactions in your brain.

Second, people don't choose their voices either. I'm gay and I do have a little bit of a lisp. I wish I didn't, because life is easier if people can't pick up on the fact that you're gay immediately, but I certainly don't choose to be heard that way. It's just my voice.

I do agree with a few people here about how people who are in your face gay are annoying. I myself wouldn't date a guy like that. I accept people for who they are, but that doesn't mean they can't annoy me, just the same as girls who wear a shirt that ends as the edge of their ass and call it a dress annoy me. But that's more about personality clashes I think.

Someone mentioned earlier about people with stickers on their car etc. and how it was unnecessary. I'm pretty certain the reason people do this, and the reason there are parades etc. is because homosexuals are still not afforded the same rights as everyone else. Until that day comes, there will probably be many more displays to remind people that there are a lot of homosexuals out there who would like end being treated like second class citizens.

Bottom line... people can't help who they're attracted to. Its not a good reason to hate someone.



posted on Oct, 29 2009 @ 06:32 AM
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reply to post by Death_Kron
 

Firstly, you are assuming that all men have deep voices which is clearly not the case. Once again, I have met straight men with high pitched voices. I mean why would someone intentionally change the pitch of their voice? Easy. They dont. If they did their vocal cords would be strained to the point of being hoarse. If someone has a high pitched voice, its because thats they way their dna told their body to make it.

However, lets go with your assumption that all gay men who use high pitched voices and have a limped wrist do it just to do it. I still dont understand how they are flaunting their sexuality. They are in no way saying anything about what they do behind closed doors. They are expressing their creativity and being who they want to be. Because you equate that with sex...well thats really a personal issue on your end.

Now as for your high school friends thats a bit different. You are talking about a counter/sub culture that usually exists around that age and fades out with age. That particular subculture punk/emo/goth is a from of expression usually for teenage angst. For some it is a way of life over the lifespan but not for many. So it really does not apply in this situation.

Also, you may not think you flaunt your sexuality but you do. And in many ways there are things you take for granted as a straight person that are not afforded to gay men flamboyant or otherwise. I mean you can go on a date pretty much anywhere and not worry about being harassed. You can hold hands in public without making most people uncomfortable. And the list goes on.

Im advocating a society where people can be who they are without backlash. Where we let go of these silly assumptions that are unhealthy and ridiculous. So I guess yes that would include a society where if a woman has a deep voice she is still attractive because of who she is. Where there is no such thing as acting like a man/woman/boy/girl. Because in actuality there isnt. A little boy who plays dress up or plays with dolls will not grow up gay unless he was meant to. A little girl who like firetrucks and wrestling will not grow up to be a lesbian unless she was meant to. We already live in a society where grown men throw tantrums.

Some light reading
Baby X


[edit on 29-10-2009 by acmpnsfal]



posted on Oct, 29 2009 @ 06:37 AM
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Originally posted by acmpnsfal
And as for the complaints about straight men being hit on, women have been complaining about it for decades, you are just getting a taste of your own medicine, get over it.


Well I wouldn't complain, heck I'd take it as a compliment. Can't blame people for having good taste



posted on Oct, 29 2009 @ 06:45 AM
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reply to post by DantesPeak
 



First of all, people don't "choose" their sexuality. If they did, it would be easy to switch for the ones who are unhappy with being gay wouldn't it? Who you are attracted to, your feelings, what turns you on are all dictated by chemical reactions in your brain.


My mistake, "choose" was the wrong word to use. What I ment was people should be allowed to live their own sexuality i.e. if someone is born gay then they should be allowed to live that way

Some people do actually choose their sexuality, look at bisexuals for example.


Second, people don't choose their voices either. I'm gay and I do have a little bit of a lisp. I wish I didn't, because life is easier if people can't pick up on the fact that you're gay immediately, but I certainly don't choose to be heard that way. It's just my voice.


I mentioned plenty of times that if people are born that way then it isnt there fault, the fact that you have a lisp and are also gay is not related, just a coincidence.

I have a problem with gays who choose to speak in a high pitched squeaky tone of voice.

Can I also just say that I know a man who everyone thought he was straight but then announced he was gay. After this announcement he started talking in that high pitched voice, he never spoke like that before his announcement...


I do agree with a few people here about how people who are in your face gay are annoying.


Thats exactly my point.


Bottom line... people can't help who they're attracted to. Its not a good reason to hate someone.


I've stated more then once that I do not hate or dislike gays, as I keep saying each to their own, I would just prefer it not to be rubbed in my face.

I'm pretty sure a room full of gay men wouldn't like to hear a group of straight men talking about what they would to do to their sexual partners.

[edit on 29/10/09 by Death_Kron]

[edit on 29/10/09 by Death_Kron]



posted on Oct, 29 2009 @ 07:04 AM
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reply to post by acmpnsfal
 



Firstly, you are assuming that all men have deep voices which is clearly not the case. Once again, I have met straight men with high pitched voices. I mean why would someone intentionally change the pitch of their voice? Easy. They dont. If they did their vocal cords would be strained to the point of being hoarse. If someone has a high pitched voice, its because thats they way their dna told their body to make it.


No I am not assuming that all men have deep voices, I have said more than once that "if thats the way they are then it isn't their fault" and I have also mentioned that its a scientific fact that some men are more feminine than others with again I do not have a problem with.

Why would they change their voice? I don't know to be honest, I think there was an earlier suggestion in the thread that they do it as a way of indicating to others they are gay? Sounds a little far-fetched but seems more reasonable when you think about it.

From my experience the majority of gay men speak this way and thats also how they are usually depicted on the television.

I haven't seen any scientific study that suggests positive correlation between homosexuality and a high pitched voice so how come the majority seem to speak that way?


However, lets go with your assumption that all gay men who use high pitched voices and have a limped wrist do it just to do it. I still dont understand how they are flaunting their sexuality. They are in no way saying anything about what they do behind closed doors. They are expressing their creativity and being who they want to be. Because you equate that with sex...well thats really a personal issue on your end.


Have you ever heard of pavlov's dog experiment? Association is a natural human psychological process and everyone does it, I have no personal issue.


Now as for your high school friends thats a bit different. You are talking about a counter/sub culture that usually exists around that age and fades out with age. That particular subculture punk/emo/goth is a from of expression usually for teenage angst. For some it is a way of life over the lifespan but not for many. So it really does not apply in this situation.


It's actually very application to this situation, what we are also seeing is a subculture of gay men developing and I could argue that the high pitched voice is also a form of expression.

Whats wrong with simply wanting to have sex with another man? Why do all the other tidbits need to be included? High voice? Flamboyance? etc


Also, you may not think you do not flaunt your sexuality but you do. And in many ways there are things you take for granted as a straight person that are not afforded to gay men flamboyant or otherwise. I mean you can go on a date pretty much anywhere and not worry about being harassed. You can hold hands in public without making most people uncomfortable. And the list goes on.


I'll admit you have a point there however I do not flaunt my sexuality on purpose i.e. You can't put on holding hands, but you can a high pitched voice.


Where there is no such thing as acting like a man/woman/boy/girl


I'm sorry but that statement is wrong on so many levels, so a man would be allowed to act like a little boy or a man would be allowed to act like a girl?

Think about what your actually saying there.

Note: I'm not having a go at people who naturally have a high pitched voice or people who are naturally flamboyant, what I'm saying is why do the vast majority of men act this way.

It isn't a biological reason because not all gay men do it, even gay men in this thread have said they don't like "camp" men. So my question is why do they do it?

[edit on 29/10/09 by Death_Kron]



posted on Oct, 29 2009 @ 07:40 AM
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Originally posted by acmpnsfal
I have a hard time understanding something that keeps coming up over and over again in this thread. The whole, "I dont mind gay men as long as they are not flamboyant." Why does that fact matter as well? I mean I have met straight men who are more "flamboyant or feminine" for lack of better terms who are left alone and even have their own category-metrosexual.


You sure they were straight?

Just asking....


You cannot bash someone for being who they are, because someones body language makes you uncomfortable does not give you the right to dislike them.


Rubbish, I can dislike anyone I want for any reason I choose. I have every right to do so.

And thats in reference to the last part of your statement there, not the bashing part. No one in this thread has claimed they want to 'bash' gays.


Or do you dislike metrosexuals as well? We need to let go of these anglo saxon gender roles/identities. Because they usually favor one obvious group that likes to play victim all the time but I wont go there.


If someone is flamboyant, and has a lisp they play up, acts camp, flirts knowingly with straight men, says things simply to get a rise (not literally), and honestly has NO CLASS, I find it irritating. No offence, but thats my right. I don't have to LIKE anyone. I CHOOSE to, based on their merit. Not their ability to get the women to gossip with them.


And as for the complaints about straight men being hit on, women have been complaining about it for decades, you are just getting a taste of your own medicine, get over it.


BZZZT. Thats outright Ignorance. No one should have to put up with it. Just because it's happened once, does not mean it's OK to accept it again.

That is basically the same as saying "You white folk were prejudiced against coloured folk for decades, now theyre giving you a taste of your own medicine - GET over it."

Never going to be acceptable... Sorry.


But I guess the same crowd would prefer looking at lipstick lesbians as opposed to butch lesbians.

[edit on 29-10-2009 by acmpnsfal]


Speak for yourself.





posted on Oct, 29 2009 @ 07:56 AM
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reply to post by Death_Kron
 

Ok so I saw above that you were talking about a friend of yours who after he came out gay started to use a higher tone of voice. Could it be that he was making his voice deeper to be more macho to prove his straightness in the way that you said you dont? I can not speak on your personal experiences but I have met gay men all over the spectrum from macho to "floaty" and I would not say the majority of them had had pitched voices. But then there might be a difference between what we consider high pitched. Lets just leave television out of the equation because all sorts of groups are misrepresented there.

I have heard of pavlov and classical conditioning but I dont see how that applies in this situation unless you were somehow forced to watch two flamboyant gay men have sex and it was scarred into your psyche. Therefore everytime you saw a flamboyant gay man you automatically thought back to the sex. Like I said, its a personal issue.

You could argue that the body language and vocal patterns (working off the assumption that they are controllable) are part of belonging to that subculture but that doesnt work because all gay men do not act/sound that way. So lets call it a sub-culture within a sub-culture. And although you dont hold hands to flaunt your sexuality it still works and its actually worse from your perspective to hold hands. I mean if you cant handle a tone of voice and some non-suggestive body language you would be in bad shape if you saw two men holding hands.

Obviously, like I said to begin with, you have some personal unresolved issue, perhaps with this friend, that make you think in over generalizations. And as for my comment about not acting like a man/woman/girl/boy I did not literally mean across age ranges. I thought you more intelligent than that. What I meant was there is no such thing as a child acting like a boy/girl or an adult acting like a man/woman because most of these ideas are socialized into us and lead to all types of oppression.

I personally dont have a problem with campy men. I actually prefer their company because to me they are more fun. I also enjoy drag queens.
However, once again I will say that these people are just being who they are/want to be. They are being creative/expressive and living their lives on their own terms. I doubt they do it just for the hell of it because its not an easy life. Its not an easy lifestyle for a "regular" gay man so I actually have a lot of respect for them.

I would hope that you move outside your comfort zone, go talk to some campy men. Ask them the questions we cant answer in this thread. Maybe you'll get some better insight into all the whys.

[edit on 29-10-2009 by acmpnsfal]



posted on Oct, 29 2009 @ 07:57 AM
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Two things I find funny about this thread:

1) When guys say that it is un-natural, how so? So many ppl have an animalistic attraction to other males, its not an isolated event it happens EVERYWHERE since like FOREVER. Its not un-natural, its just as natural as straight sex, it just doesn't sell ipods or pepsi.

2) The whole anal thing, its not a gay thing dude, i've "known" quite a few chicks who were very fond of it and I was more than happy to oblige
I'm not gay, just very comfortable about my sexuality, its societies hang ups, not mine. You'd be suprised how much straight sex involves anal.



posted on Oct, 29 2009 @ 08:02 AM
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reply to post by andy1033
 


well, maybe, they have the gut feeling that its catching? you know, like mass hysteria



posted on Oct, 29 2009 @ 08:05 AM
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reply to post by Ha`la`tha
 

Im pretty sure they were straight, they did not sleep with men if thats what you are asking. You are coming at the campy side of this a little hard. Assuming they all flirt with straight men, etc. How about you throw the word some in front of that and maybe a from my experience. And you are right no one should have to be harassed but I think its funny that it is only a problem when it happens to the population in the majority in this case, straight males. So I stick by my statement, deal with it.
@ the lesbian response.



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