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Originally posted by solequinox
reply to post by 911files
That statement was a conditional based on possibility #4, that the FDR system and sensor were installed and functioning/reporting correctly.
What do you mean by it was not a required parameter? According to what organization? I would like to see some documentation on this.
It's listed as "not working or unconfirmed." The document does not distinguish between the two.
Assumptions about the pilot's bathroom/eating habits does not constitute "data."
Originally posted by solequinox
reply to post by 911files
That statement was a conditional based on possibility #4, that the FDR system and sensor were installed and functioning/reporting correctly.
What do you mean by it was not a required parameter? According to what organization? I would like to see some documentation on this.
It's listed as "not working or unconfirmed." The document does not distinguish between the two.
Originally posted by A W Smith
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Originally posted by adam_zapple
It doesn't have to. Until both possibilities are eliminated any conclusions drawn from the "inaccurate or unconfirmed" data are just speculative.
Originally posted by solequinox... assuming the data provided by warrenstutt.com is accurate.
1. The door sensor was never installed on Flight 77 and the FDR system recorded a default value of CLOSED.
While this is still a possibility in my mind, it seems highly unlikely. They were installing these proximity switches on the cabin doors of converted 757 cargo planes in the early 90's. It would make sense that they would require this on passenger jets. Also, it makes more sense that a default value would be OPEN.
2. The door sensor was broken or somehow malfunctioned.
I don't think this is a possibility. A proximity switch would only record CLOSED if the connection is made. If it cannot measure that connection, then it must report the door as OPEN, regardless of how it was broken or malfunctioned.
3. The FDR system was not recording the correct value from the door sensor.
Perhaps someone with a technical understanding can explain how the AUTOTHROTTLE DISC could report accurate data while FLT_DECK_DOOR did not?
Originally posted by turbofan
The bit position within the frame does not necessarily mean the two
parameters are located on the same circuit. I dont' have the manual
near me at the moment, however the two bit positions could be reading
from an entirely different circuit. It only takes one bit to monitor the door
switch.
Originally posted by turbofan
That document does not contain the schematic wiring unfortunately.
What you see are data frame layouts, word structures, etc.
The manual i have access to shows no connection between the door
switch/relay to the FDAU. All other doors such as cargo, passenger, etc.
do have connections to the FDAU through EICAS.
Originally posted by 767doctorThe manuals showed that the sensor for the cockpit door is used only for the cockpit door open switch(the switch the pilots use to open the cockpit door via a strike solenoid when they are strapped in), the accept/deny circuitry, and cockpit entry keypad.
Originally posted by turbofan
Jay, we know that passenger doors are connected to EICAS and recorded
in the FDR. What sort of message would be displayed on the monitor?
Originally posted by solequinox
I posted the full manual HERE.
Page 431 - Documentation on the parameters in question.
Page 22 - Explanations for the headers.
From my reading, it looks like FLT_DECK_DOOR and AUTOTHROTTLE DISC are coming from the same hardware and reporting in the same data stream.
It also says FLT_DECK_DOOR is Rev. A2 which became required (page 9) on 7/11/97 (page 24).
Originally posted by 767doctor
I did a little digging through the 757 Schematic Manual and I shouldn't have been so surprised that Boeing packaged the FLT DECK DOOR parameter in with all the other EICAS messages.
QUOTE (Turbofan @ Nov 30 2009, 06:05 PM) *
JFK, if I may I'd like to contact you further about this circuit and diagrams.
Thanks!
Tino
-------------------------
(JFK reply)
Nope, not any more.
From now on any and all propriatary documents I possess will remain as such thanks to your actions.
Great work Tino.
Originally posted by 767doctor
The frame descriptor table you listed is all inclusive. It has no idea which of the 1110 parameters are installed on a given airframe.
Originally posted by turbofan
Just remember Robbie, it was your action to ban me after
repeated attempts to show you how the FDR and data works. It was you
that blocked my messages and denied my requests to delete my posts
on your forum.
Remember those last words Robbie? "We're cool now"? Nope, I guess
not... you had to be stupid and bring it out in the open (not really sure
what triggered that outburst?).
Hey Robbie, any idea why an SF model manual would show a door, and
the door circuits if ummmm...the aircraft doesn't have a door installed?
Posted by Tino
Correct, as per 757-200SF manual. Even though the SF models do not have cabin doors
Posted by Tino
The manual i have access to shows no connection between the door
switch/relay to the FDAU. All other doors such as cargo, passenger, etc.
do have connections to the FDAU through EICAS.