NASA and the Moon War: Say no to the bombing!

Originally posted by IX-777
A couple months ago I got aware of NASAs plans to bomb the moon with a 2 ton kinetic weapon that will create a crater 5 miles wide.

I've read that it will send debris a bit over 9km (~6mi) from the surface, but that it will create a crater 20m in diameter, not 5 miles.

Ever heard about drilling? Or ground penetrating radars? There are many ways to discover water on a planet or moon that does not include bombing.

And how big of a drill would one need and how deep would it need to go? This option has the potential to be very expensive, depending on the size and complexity of the spacecraft.

As for ground penetrating radars. Many Lunar probes have/had them and they've provided evidence of frozen water, but not proof, thus the use of an impactor (not a bomb) to kick up debris for spectral analysis.

How likely is it, that they would spend billions of dollars on bombing our Moon to look for water...

It's extremely unlikely that NASA or any space agency would spend billions to send an impactor to the Moon. The cost of LCROSS was $75 million. That's incredibly cheap when you compare it to other probes.

Indeed, the very fact that they suddenly are turning a new interest on the Moon itself is suspicious...

A space agency interested in the Moon? How very suspicious indeed!

I don't think NASA ever lost any interest in the Moon.

...they never got any people back there, in the last 40 or so years, even though the technology now obviously should be more than advanced enough to do so considering they allegedly have done so before.

The lack of manned Lunar missions has nothing to do with technology. It's simply about money. That's something NASA doesn't have and the money they do get, is spread pretty thin through all there projects and programs. Unlike during the Apollo era where the majority of NASA's money and resources were dedicated to that one program.

It costs a lot of money to design, build and launch a heavy lift rocket comparable to the Saturn V, which no space agency, including NASA, currently has. You also need to design and build a spacecraft to get you to the Moon and another to land on it. It all adds up fast.

My own opinion is that they discovered what was there, got into a conflict, and figured the best way was to stay away - until now when they figured out they could as well blast them away up there.

You might be interested to know that the concept of sending an impactor is far from being a new concept and it's been done a number of times already.

LCROSS is using the upper stage of an Atlas V rocket as its impactor. During the Apollo missions, the S-IVB stage of the Saturn V rocket from Apollo's 13 - 17 all impacted into the Moon. The S-IVB stage is a fair bit bigger and heavier than the upper stage of an Atlas V. Thus they had more kinetic energy at impact. Their were no consequences from these impacts.

A spent rocket stage hitting the Moon is comparable to a bug hitting your car windshield. And as Phage said, meteorites/asteroids hit the Moon all the time and at greater speeds. Were there any aliens living on the Moon, a NASA impactor would be the least of there concerns...

Originally posted by IX-777
ArMap: The information regarding the 5 miles crater was reported in different news, I am not sure if this estimate is correct or not as I am far from any expert in explosives.

Kinetic weapons do not have explosives... so which is it a Kinetic Weapon or a crater making bomb?

reply to post by IX-777


didnt you say you were from another world last year on ats? .. i remember that avatar!, bad with names, great with pictures!


now you say its "our" moon, yourself included? so your Not from another world?

sorry to sound like a troll, its not my intention.


see my other posts for moon related thoughts, its a cool place, but dude, its just a rock!

jra: Regarding the size of the crater I am not sure how big it will be, and those 5 miles mentioned are not my own estimate but something I read in different news so I cant verify that being correct or not. But I am not sure if an impact only leaving a 20 meter large crater will be enough for blasting debries 9km out in space, yet I can not deny the possibility as I do not know enough about the gravity of the Moon and so on to speak about such mathematics myself.

I am rather familiar with how LCROSS is designed and works, I did read the official information myself, the reason I am concerned actually IS the official story as it makes very little sense to me that they would do what they have been telling us considering I know they already are aware of where water is both on the Moon and on Mars.

Regarding drilling and so on, that was just one suggestion, there are certainly MANY other methods of searching for water. They have found water on planets in other solar systems already years ago, and they have found it on other heavenly bodies within our own solar system as well - even officially.

Apparently they are also planning going back to the moon soon, as well as Mars, and they have been there before. Why not search for water then instead, and why did they not search for water last time they were there? Then they could check out sites they already know about through ground penetrating rader and other methods of searching, instead of bombing more or less random places as they seem to be doing now in the weak hope of maybe finding water if they are lucky enough to get the satellite back through the debires plume as it rises after the impact. Sounds like a rather silly way to search for water no matter how I look at it, even if I did believe it was the legitimate reason for doing this.

Of course some will say the astronauts were and will be too busy with other things - I can only say what can be more important than looking for water once you are up there, and then life? Jumping around in space suits planting flags and dusting off some rocks , spinning around in moon boogies etc, do not seem too useful to me. Thats the official story anyway of what they were doing up there.

When it comes to the comparison between meteorites and human made satellite impacts I already answered your friend Phage on that.

The bottom line for me is that I know for a fact a lot of what they really are doing there, and what they know about the planets in our solar system, and because of that knowledge I am skeptical towards the whole LCROSS mission, even though I probably would still be concerned if I did not know such matters. I can only make assumptions from what I know to be true, thus I am not saying I know they are sending the LCROSS up for any malevolent reason, but it does seem like that from the things I do know to be true.

-Maggador

zorgon: Yes sorry, I was reading the Scientific American, and they mention "missils" and "rockets" as being sent to the moon ( Scientific American Moon bombing link )

Personally I am not truly aware of what they really are using as I am not part of the team making the thing, so I can only believe in what I read as far as that is concerned, and consider what I know already. Yes I do know the official story, but I am not that interested in official stories as I know they are frequently lying for the public in any case so their stories are not very credible to me.

boaby_phet: yes I did, and you can probably find my old posts if you search. I am also here on this Earth like everyone else, thus I say "our". You should read some more of my background history and you will get some more insights.

I can not agree to the Moon only being a rock though, as I know there are more things than rocks up there, and so does the people sending the LCROSS up there.

-Maggador

[edit on 6-9-2009 by IX-777]

Originally posted by feedpeopletosharks
This is beyond insane and makes me angry.
it makes me sick to be a human being.

Well Carl Sagan wanted to do that in the fifties, but he was gonna use a Nuke...

The reason? "To see if any organic material stirs up in the dust"


"Hey LOOK Carl.... there WAS life down there...... errrrr..... oops...."

Originally posted by ziggystar60
There will not be any "bombing" of the moon,

Well the august premier scientific publication disagrees with you

NASA's mission to bomb the Moon
www.scientificamerican.com...


NASA children love to smash things into planetary bodies, they love to take laser pot shots at Venus on a flyby shooting on the way to Venus, they don't care about dropping pounds of plutonium onto unsuspecting worlds..

they call it science... and when they get huge unexplained explosions like at temple one they act like children



And when things go wrong they kinda sit around trying to figure out hat went wrong...



But it's okay no worries... they get to do all this fun stuff on YOUR tax dollar... Sweet huh?

What will nasa blow up next? Mars?

How is this thread not closed? We have someone making extraordinary claims and offers no proof and also tells us he will provide none. He is an obvious troll...this kind of dribble is making ATS full of garbage. At least other people making silly claims offer evidence (no matter how ridiculous it is but still offer it) to back up thier claims. How is it that someone can continue to make threads and offer no evidence to back it up and tell us they will offer nothing...without the thread being closed...I have seen other threads being closed for less.

[edit on 6-9-2009 by kerazeesicko]

i love a good conspiracy but this is ridiculous.

there should be T&C to ban thread that make illogical outrages claim.

never thought I would use this function
Ignore this user (info)
ignore



[edit on 6-9-2009 by digital_desire]

this topic is insane. Its easily debunked and several people have done it before.

Lets use some simple logic.

If you are at war with another people, then you generally want your attacks to be secret. You don't go declaring your bombing raids. If NASA wanted to strike an alien race, I highly doubt they would be telling them about it before hand. I mean NASA isn't giving them a heads up directly, but its hard to imagine an extremly advanced alien race not looking through the web for information, and there is no doubt NASA would be aware of this search which is why NASA would not release this info on the web.

Originally posted by Chovy
What will nasa blow up next? Mars?

Enceladus... gonna drill a hole and snoop around the ocean

Originally posted by butch_uk
Sir, are you related to Dick Nutter Hoagland?

Is this suppose to be funny? Any relation to the thread or just throwing snip around and 'casually' mentioning names of the people who have done a thorough research on Mars and the Moon? Care to elaborate a bit about your bitterness toward Hoagland?

Originally posted by cynic121
this topic is insane. Its easily debunked and several people have done it before.
Lets use some simple logic.

Okay Simple logic...

1) The thread is in skunkworks... no proof required
2) We don't call people insane around here
3) It's post like yours that fill ATS with junque
4) What did you say made you stop by the thread to share your 'wisdom'

Originally posted by A Fortiori
reply to post by gandhi

 

You know, I would love, love love for some of this stuff to be true if for no other reason than to make some of these folks a teensy bit more open to topics they are uncomfortable with.

You want the unbelievably inane to be true just so you can score brownie points?

There are no Moon men. I agree with Silk. Threads like this are the reason people who are on the fence, side with the finger poking crowd who laugh at the crazy nutjobs that believe in men on the moon.

This place is becoming more and more like godlikeproductions by the minute... ATS used to have a caliber of post that kept it away from that sort of comparison..




[edit on 7/9/2009 by Ha`la`tha]

Originally posted by Ha`la`tha
There are no Moon men.

Your RIGHT...

Dr. Norman Bergrun's Discoveries of Life on the Moon

Monday, July 23, 2001 Contact: Marilyn "Kacey" Daukas
For Immediate Release Phone/Fax: 925 691-1166

NASA IMAGES REVEAL LIFE ON THE MOON
LUNAR LIFE FORMS: REVELATIONS OF APOLLO 14


Generally assumed is that life forms, if they exist elsewhere other than Earth, will be microscopic in character. Dr. Norman Bergrun's discoveries of life on the moon, presented in "Lunar Life Forms: Revelations of Apollo 14", demonstrate that this present assumption is erroneous.

Some life forms are small, reminiscent in appearance to those found on Earth's ocean floors but without the ocean, while others appear as large "growths!" Just as some life forms are capable of creating light, such as the firefly, this has also been found to take place with some of the life forms that exist on our moon. It is evident also as on Earth, that some lunar life forms use camouflage to adapt to their surroundings providing the ability to "hide in plain sight!".

These NASA images along with the data contained in Dr. Bergun's latest work,"Lunar Life Forms: Revelations of Apollo 14", can be viewed in a professional presentation exclusively at Anomalog.com owned by Mr. Gordon Tibbles, who has been most helpful in making this presentation to you possible. -

communities.anomalies.net...

They are NOT 'men'





VERY hard paper to find... if anyone has a copy let me know

[edit on 7-9-2009 by zorgon]

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by IX-777
ArMap: The information regarding the 5 miles crater was reported in different news, I am not sure if this estimate is correct or not as I am far from any expert in explosives.

Kinetic weapons do not have explosives... so which is it a Kinetic Weapon or a crater making bomb?

Splitting hairs is fun,your right they dont have explosives but they have explosive energy when they hit the target.

TWA 800 was hit by a kinetic weapon with no explosives,I dont think the poor people on that plane would have known or cared that no explosives were in that missile!

Some Nazis made rockets to bomb London before working for NASA in the space race,now they have turned full circle and are going back to bombing things-Bravo for humanity

Originally posted by Chovy
What will nasa blow up next? Mars?

hopefully it wont be Uranus,sorry had to be said

Mortars on the Moon!

Uh OH!

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/20dfae342198.jpg[/atsimg]

second kind of charge was similar to that of a mortar. In fact, the unit that fired these charges was referred to as a mortar package assembly. It contained four grenades that were launched using self-contained rockets sometime after the astronauts had left the Moon. The astronauts aligned the mortar launcher and armed it for firing. This unit contained geophones for measuring the velocity of each grenade on launch and the exact time of launch. Each grenade contained a rocket motor, a high explosive charge, provisions for igniting the rocket and a device to detonate the charge, a battery, a transmitter that provided information as to the length of time of the flight and the moment of impact on the Moon, and a thread with which to measure the distance of the impact from the launcher. Because there is no atmosphere on the Moon, the thin thread trailing the grenade remained taut and measured accurately the horizontal distance from the point of launch to the point of impact. They had been designed to impact the Moon at distances of 137, 282, 853, 1372 meters from the launcher. The size of the explosive charge increased with distance. Any layering in the Moon that is present in the first 300 meters beneath the surface would be seen with the Active Experiment.

Two experiments, the Active Seismic Experiment on Apollo 14 and 16 and the Lunar Seismic Profiling Experiment on Apollo 17, were performed to determine the detailed structure of the upper kilometer of the lunar crust. Both experiments involved detonation of a series of small explosives. The seismic waves, or ground vibrations, caused by these explosions were measured by a network of geophones (a kind of electronic stethoscope). On Apollo 14 and 16, up to 19 small explosions were detonated by an astronaut using a device called a "thumper" along a 90-meter-long geophone line. On Apollo 16, three mortar shells were also used to lob explosive charges to distances of up to 1,300 meters from the ALSEP.

Both the Apollo 16 mortar shells and the Apollo 17 explosives were detonated by radio control after the astronauts left the lunar surface.


-history.nasa.gov...

[edit on 7-9-2009 by Exuberant1]

reply to post by gandhi


Every crater on the moon is an impact crater. What else could they be? What do you propose caused the craters on the moon that aren't impact craters?