These Little Ones being born now are...missing something

reply to post by Rhain


Thank you also. Its tough to hear but this could be the problem.

reply to post by dgtempe


dgtempe
I have a daughter that sounds similar to what you described and we give her all the love and warmth you can imagine but she still acts up. Her trigger is additives and preservatives but the real kicker for her is food coloring, when we control those chemicals she returns to being a loving caring child with normal behavior.

Dg, you post something to ATS and your going to get some bizarre results, from Beating them senseless to that they are sociopaths lol.

The reality, your Son probably just over loves, feels bad about the situation, is afraid of the kids not loving him.

The issue is almost surely Parental, the real problem is they blame him for mom not being around and he want's their love and THEY know that.

Hard thing to do but he doesn't have to go bananas with the spanking nor be blatantly mean, he has to be a Parent and Not give a poop if they are happy or not...

Time outs and the rest are fine they hit or break you drag them by the shirt and lock em down and swat them if they try to be violent, let them know its futile...without kicking any ass...

But what he needs to do is Make them WANT his attention

He obviously Cares way too much

(not saying stop caring but don't show it)

They have the upper hand he is a parent seeking their approval... 2-1 says he apologizes and explains WHY when he punishes them right?

Don't ever... Let them guess...

THEY NEED ATTENTION

He reacts and gives it to them... keep them in the room 18 hrs a day see how they like it, when they see they don't get ATTENTION by lashing out they will experiment to get attention, they have one parent they HAVE to aquire it... They are not that smart, they are kids they will drift in any direction that gets ANY response even a negative one.

Even the spanking is a REWARD it's his attention and obviously he has his hands full and can't give enough the right way, (who can these days)

All this over punishment stuff is crazy

They aren't sociopaths or lack a conscience

They are kids and he probably lets him know he loves them most when they act out... even it's by a spanking, kids need constant care and sadly most kids can't get it...

But they will do what it takes to get attention...

Even if it means being Good!

I'm not talking about a kid gets an A and you bring him or her to the zoo... They have No long term reward principle yet, I'm talking about the little day by day moments and moods thast need to be addressed.

Sending them to shrinks... more negative Attention reward

Talking to them about problems... More negative attention reward

Explaining your punishments... more negative attention reward

Punsihing them more.... a negative attention reward

Getting upset becoming angry... still another negative attention reward


You never reward the negative behavior by reacting to it.

You described him crying, laying on the floor... NO NEVER NO NO NO!!! BAD DADDY!!!!

The reality, he is not 100% prepared to deal with kids work and whatever else he has on his plate without a wife and they know it, he enabled them to get revenge for loss of mom on him, it's not evil it's childish emotions of children and he's... not too far above it right now.

They don't need the shrink, it's just more reward for negative attention

He needs the shrink, because as an adult talking his frustrations out will make it easier to not react emotionally when the kids want attention.

The advice of a whoopin is all wrong

(don't get me wrong showing them they are physically unable to stand to him ONCE might be useful)

He needs to stay CALM, he needs to give them nothing, NOTHING, NOTHING when they react this way, going after them lets them become victims, blame him further... they go away, right to the room, no toys don't come out... But no display of emotion, no attention.. NONE

They KNOW they can affect him emotionally.. he isn't in charge

HE is the biggest REWARD

They don't get him if they act out... not in anger, not in love, not in lecture... no explanations, no discussions they are kids you don't discuss squat with them...

They get HIM only if they behave

He can turn this around in a few weeks if he just stops giving them attention for the behavior, and more importantly reacting to it...

That's a Hell of allot of power to give a child, freaking out when they do something, they have the control... take away his emotion, stop giving a damn if they are happy or sad at face value and ignore them and lock em down if they break stuff and do it coldly and silently with no explanation (they know exactly wth they did)

Seriously... I can't emphasis more, he needs counseling they don't...

Not a negative to him, it's Good and useful for an adult, the kids don't know what in the blazez the retard shrink is talking about it's just ATTENTION, lol does he she have a lava lamp and some puppets?

Let me tell you I LOVED to go to the shrink when I was a kid, got me out of reality... the comment above, that was my dork... as a kid and I had a vicious little temper...

That was him Lava lamp and puppets and little notebook...

and I abused him, I completely figured out by 8 how to play the guy... I drew pictures of myself with two faces lol to freak him out, when older I told him I shot heroin between my toes...

why did I do that? attention lol... I dunno... it beat chores and class by a mile and he would always react...the more crazy ____ I told the guy, the more "special attention" I got...

So Eventually I made stuff up lol

so no diss on your son... he needs to see the shrink, to control his emotional state better and they need to be locked down and ignored... they WILL respond with good behavior if that's the only way they get DAD












[edit on 4-8-2009 by mopusvindictus]

reply to post by dgtempe


NO... maybe ONE day if he keeps rewarding the behavior with negative attention.

But he'd be partially the cause of it...

Everyone is soooo fast to "TOUGH LOVE" the kids

Tough Love your son.... breaking down in front of kids over a broken car empowers them to do whatever they want...

Spank Him... lol

reply to post by dgtempe


dg

These kids are not sociopaths. Don't listen to that BS.

Apart from the necessities, kid crave two things:

Boundaries

Consequences

It seems that somewhere along the way, these kids have not received either of these.

They need a significant emotional event, a 'see', to get their attention. Not to say anything about you or your son, but neither of you can deliver this to them.

It's time to bring in an outsider to help you. Not a namby pamby, but someone who will not tolerate this.

We love you. And wish we could help more.

One more thing, dg...

You and your son are not your children's friends. Don't act that way. Don't try to be. You are the boss lady; remember that.

[edit on 4-8-2009 by jsobecky]

Send them to Tibet and let them stay at a Buddhist monastery. That will teach them.

My heart goes to the children and your family..



It is common for children that have endured trauma to act out and are prone to pushing every boundary.

They want to see if you love them thus hitting them is nothing to them..they lost a mother , do you think spanking will hurt them more than that?



help your grandchildren with a hug when the anger passes..they need to know you love them.. they sound afraid of losing the love of a parent again.



Did you watch the supernanny that jaamaan suggested? just curious as if you did you would find out tips on how to deal with some of the situations you have described.

Also as Blanca Rose suggested ..doing something productive with the children that engages and interests them.


fab advice from mazzroth and mopusvindictus

kids dont need lots of money to keep them happy, they just want love and security ...
here is something you could try next time you see them.... get some cans of shaving foam, let the kids spray the cans into a basin or baking tray, empty in some small soldiers or lego people and let them play...

try making some water bombs pack up your bags and head to the park and have a fight with some local kids.
Homemade moonsand recipe
Homemade moonsand recipe

set up some play dates....and let them help with a picnic..

take them on a nature walk... or borrow books from library to identify wildlife...I have yet to meet a young boy who is not interested in at least one bug..or squishing one...

get a glass jar and make a worm or ant farm..

show them what they can have...but please no more hitting..or shouting as mopusvindictus says..they are acting up for attention. To a little child a beating is better than no attention.


love from me

reply to post by EyesWideShut


Your right there has to be repercussions for there actions my son would never ever break my window in my car? Why because he knows there would be a punishment involved.For my 10 year old can be as simple as removing everything from his room and he has to go up there after dinner for say a week. Had to use this when he tried to tell me he doesn't have to listen to me.
to my 5 yr old timeouts somewhat effective depending if theres something he wants to do. To spankings depending on the severity of the situation.

In this case who's the parent here your son or the kids time for him to show some authority would start by regulating there lifestyles. Say 1 hour TV from this time to this time eat dinner at this time go to bed at this time. I think you get the idea first rule to create discipline is to create structure.This is exactly how the military gets people to conform once the person realizes they have no control they will listen. Hope that helps.

So, let me get this straight,
your son is raising kids born likely addicted to crack, birthed by a mother who was addicted to chemicals and was using while pregnant. They are total screw balls, neglected by druggies. So at what point do you jump to the conclusion that "these little ones being born right now are... missing something.."?
You figure all kids are like this?

listen to me man,its true kids are mostly dicks,but with these new age they get even EVIL as you say,i dont know why..maybe conspiracy or something,but i guess mother drug addict is a reason,aa man why do girls have to be like this>_<
so dont take kids to medics or pshycos...
they think you cant touch them?yelling wont help,my mothers yells at me all the time and for no serious reasons (im 20 lol) and i prefer listening to my father who just says when theres a problem.u know what to do?
just kick your braths for a couple of days to live in theyr uncle..or grandma or something,but say to them "your going to live there until you get respect for our love to you"
or tell them the next time they brake something they can sleep outside in the rain
THAT WILL SHOW THEM!

Originally posted by dgtempe
reply to post by MajesticJax

 

I totally agree. Thats how i raised mine.

Well we all know parenting is the hardest, most rewarding, most heart-breaking, most tiring job in the world.

My heart goes out to you.

reply to post by dgtempe


Your son sounds like a nice fella DG .. and I am sorry to hear about your troubles.

But if the first time his son had done something like that, and your son would have spanked his ass, your grandson probably wouldn't find it entirely amusing to break a windshield.

I know if I ever crossed the line to either parent, it was "Just wait till you're dad gets home" .. and it wasn't an empty threat. There was literally a paddle in the Kitchen drawer. And all around, I never crossed the line. Much.

Hi, sorry for all the troubles. Children can certainly break our hearts, and our bank. Since you've gotten lots of good advice concerning the behavioral issues, I thought I would mention money, as you say there is not much of it right now.

Because the children are under psychiatric care, they probably will be able to receive supplemental income. This would provide a check from anywhere to 300-700 per month per child. It would also include the Medicaid medical insurance.

If your son is interested in this at all, begin with the doctor's office. He probably has staff there who will be willing to file the paperwork, and if this particular doctor sees many children, they probably do it all the time.

Good luck!

Originally posted by Geladinhu
Very interesting read.

I believe sincerely that those kids are the future.
And what a wonderful future.
They are free and they are showing it to the ones that most try to trap them at the moment how free they are.

Little revolutionaries. We are needing them in this society structured upon fear.
Seems like they came into this world knowing well their mission.

They are not evil, they are just more evolved.

edit: Sadly enough, everyone in this thread seems to be promoting the idea of putting more effort in trying to trap them and take away their freedom. Don't start punishing and rewarding them. That's just crap. Teach them! Tell them whats going on and what they can do about it! All they need is focused attention. They are like little energy things bouncing all over. Don't take away all their potential.

[edit on 4-8-2009 by Geladinhu]

I just wanted to tell you - I understand this too.

When asked advice - I always say "raise a child from the inside out". Every person is different - its important to recognize their special qualities - encourage those and play down the negatives.

The only person anyone ever really has to live with in this life is them self. Its important to know your self.

There is way too much of - trying to make children fit into an adult world.

Originally posted by mopusvindictus

The reality, your Son probably just over loves, feels bad about the situation, is afraid of the kids not loving him.

The issue is almost surely Parental, the real problem is they blame him for mom not being around and he want's their love and THEY know that.

Your posts are the best and most accurate I have read in this thread so far.

Although - - there really are people born who lack any guilt/consciousness - - I don't think it is a large percentage.

reply to post by Rhain


The diagnosis Sociopath has not been used in years. It is now replaced with the term "anti-social personality disorder". This diagnosis may not be given to persons less than 18 years of age.

In that population it is called "conduct disorder". There is, indeed, a different criteria which is used for diagnostic purposes. These children are seeing a doctor and if this is the case, the doctor should be on to it by now.

reply to post by dgtempe


dgtempe, I'm sorry to hear of your troubles...

I think jsobecky has it partially right:

Originally posted by jsobecky
Apart from the necessities, kids crave two things:

Boundaries

Consequences

Except, I would also add love.

I read pain in these children's behavior.

It is impossible to judge such things from afar, but I'd begin with reassessing the continued value of the drugs and "professional" help they currently receive. Rather than helping, these things could be making the situation far worse.

Never forget the "business" nature of such help.

Moreover, I really detest the implicit "victimhood" mentality foisted on such young minds. Rather than teaching children to deal with their pain in a constructive manner, and requiring them to take ownership and responsibility for their own movement forward, I see a society comfortable with the notion that a chemical solution, regardless of efficacy, or some imperfect counseling mumbo-jumbo approach, is all that is really required. (In the end, we can just jail 'em all, right? )

Worse, still, is that these approaches make it someone else's responsibility to "fix" the problems.

We live in a world where the prevailing belief is that if children have behavioral trouble, they are either born with the wrong genes or born in the wrong environment.

As a general rule, I say nonsense to both!

Sure, either may be a possibility in some cases, but is it really in yours? Ask yourself that. Leave no stone unturned.

(Ever wonder what the juvenile delinquency rate is as a percentage of all juveniles on the planet? Why do we have so much trouble? Think about that. I mean, really, really think about that. )

I would recommend the following priorities:

1) Assess the credibility of the messages these children receive concerning how they are loved. Actions are as important as words. Don't simply blow this line-item off. It's pretty damned important, and in my view is ALWAYS a top priority.

2) Assess the level of honest discussion surrounding obvious (and not so obvious) sources of psychological pain. You don't need solutions here, only acknowledgment of the elephants standing in the middle of the room. Catharsis as a concept exists for a reason. Children don't care if they see this from strangers. But they need this from their parent(s)! Don't underestimate it's value.

3) Teach self-determination and self-reliance with respect to their future, which also touches upon the issues of boundaries and consequence, mentioned above. This is done by as much "doing" as it is by "saying". I don't know how else to describe that. But if you don't get this right, you aren't going to fix much. Also, where psychological pain is concerned, it is not an illness to be cured, but a natural emotion to be mastered. They can either own their pain...or it can simply own them. It often boils down to a simple choice of the mind. Self-determination. Self-reliance. (I can't tell you how many young people I have encountered in my life that had "ah-ha" moments on this point alone. Adults too. Use it... If you can get the light bulb to go off, you are well on your way to substantial improvement in behavior.)

4) Say what you mean. Do what you say. Expect both to serve as blueprints for how your children will behave. What they observe about you and how you interact with the world is actually far more important than anything you can ever say directly to them. One act is worth far more than a thousand words. Remember that. This is powerful mojo that cuts both ways. Remember that too.

5) Teach self-respect. Not just as an emotion or a feeling, but as a behavior. No one can ever respect others without respecting the self first. It's impossible. Start there. It's surprising how the rest naturally just follows.

6) Assess diet. Garbage in, garbage out. 'nough said.

7) Trust your instincts. NEVER ignore the distant little "hmmm" voices in your head. Where there is smoke, there is often fire. I'll say no more.

Good luck, dgtempe. I wish you the best.

Hopefully something I said will help.

[edit on 5-8-2009 by loam]

reply to post by loam


Wow, right down to watching the diet. You covered all the bases.

Excellent post. Anybody would do well to use these values/techniques in raising children. IMO.

*********************

editing: Loam, I remember you! You are the one who made that fantastic thread on bbccodes. I remembered your avy. I actually checked in on that thread tonight to remember how to make dancing banana. lol. Anyway, off topic, sorry.


[edit on 8/5/0909 by ladyinwaiting]

reply to post by dgtempe


I may can help,
Can you answer some questions?

Where is the mother?

Was the mother on drugs during her pregnancy?

Does your son take these children to church faithfully?

Is there any history of mental illness in either side of the family?

Is there a history of any kind of abuse to these children?

How do they do in school? Are they bullied? Are they in troublea lot?

If I am over steppimg your personal bounderies I am sorry but the answer to these questions would be needed in order to help.

reply to post by Melissa101


Okay I should have read the replys to your OP. This is what you do....

Start being very strict. Show them who is the daddy and grandma. It will be hard because I am guessing they have gotten away with a lot in order to make up for their loss. (a common parental reaction but non the less bad idea)

Children crave structure and bounderies, without these they are out of controll. They are already insecure and trying to take it easy on them will only inflame their fears, they MUST have disipline. If they look at their caretakers and do not find strength and stability that feeds their fear of loosing another parent or the that the parent is not capable of taking care of them so they feel wild and out of controll.

Get them on a schedual a strict schedaul and stick to it so that they feel a since of structure.

Make sure anyone tey are around is not abusing them, if you have ANY doubts change sitters, schools whatever it takes NO MATTER WHAT...

I promise these kids do not like how they are feeling, they are miserable and SCREAMing for help. Listen you and there dads #1 priority is fixing this NOW... Before it gets even worse. Your son needs to be strong and pull out of this, pray for him. If he is in the hospital these kids are terrified of loosing him too. Tey were again traumatised when the ambualnce came and got him. Inside they are thinking that my dad cannot even deal with us how is he going to raise us in this world, and / or is dad going to die and go away and leave us too?

Get your son and his kids into a good Church ASAP. The Church will be a support for the whole family (spiratualy, financaily, emotionaly) and the kids will learn Biblical truths. If your son gives his life over to Jesus you will see him and the kids make huge changes over the next few months, been there done that... IT WORKS! Maybe your son could even meet a real mom for these kids there. Who knows...


These babies are not Evil, but they are on the path to being very Evil adults. Stop it now no matter what you have to do. Sell your home, all of you move far away. No matter what it takes do it and do it now!!!! The kids need to see that they are going to be taken care of and this is going to be fixed come hell or high water.That is what they are waiting for. Keep them in therapy all of yall go to therapy it takes time sometimes for it to work years even so keep going and make sure they understand that they are not crazy or sick for going that a lot of people go to therapy even point out someone tey look up to ethier on TV or the community and tell them even people like that go to therapy andpoint out how great that person is, that they are succesful and better off for going anything to make it a positive.