These Little Ones being born now are...missing something

Spare the rod

The phrase "Spare the rod and spoil the child" is not from the Bible but from Samuel Butler's "Hudibras", a 17th Century satirical poem. The poem, like his novel, The Way of All Flesh, was written to expose and denounce violence against children.

While the "rod" is mentioned many times in the Bible, it is only in the Book of Proverbs that this word is used in connection with parenting. The book of Proverbs is attributed to Solomon, an extremely cruel man whose harsh methods of discipline led his own son, Rehoboam, to become a tyrannical and oppressive dictator who only narrowly escaped being stoned to death for his cruelty. In the Bible there is no support for harsh discipline outside of Solomon's Proverbs. By contrast, the writings in the Gospels, the most important books in the Bible for Christians, contain the teachings of Jesus Christ, who urged mercy, forgiveness, humility, and non-violence. Jesus saw children as being close to God, and urged love, never punishment

This is more common than most know. Their sociopathic behavior could be caused by many things, developmental imbalances in neurochemical from birth due to parent ingesting drugs or alcohol during pregnancy or deep emotional issues. Or, a combination.

Your first instinct to love is correct, but have you ever heard of "tough love"?

Additional psychoactive drugs can exasperate as well as help, but careful diagnostics and counseling need be done WHENEVER such treatments are incorporated in adult and especially child treatments for behavioral issues.

I have a friends who adapted crack babies, and they are now 10 years later brilliant motivated amazing kids, so such dysfunction is not the rule for such children.

Kids are smart. Smarter than their parents and overseers in most cases. They search their environment very thoroughly for resources. They know how to use their parents for such if they can find their weaknesses and capitalize on them.

If they know you will not discipline them appropriately they will continue their behavior until that resource is no longer worth their trouble.

They likely feel powerless and are compensating by controlling the immediate environment. That and emotional anger coloring all their acts can seem evil.

Protect yourself and others as you would from any such invasion of your safety and security. If you don't, someone else they act out towards might just do so with deadly force, like a neighbor with a gun or an armed police officer.

If you truly love them (and that is very lucky for them) teach them the impact of their behavior on the real world. You might save their lives. That is a truly loving act when you think about it.

ZG

I'd have to say the parent needs to take some responsibility here. Yeah the kid smashed his windshield in but where was the parent when he was doing it? Then he did it AGAIN??

I know you can't watch your kids 24 hours a day and mine has done some dumb stuff as well but we as parent's need to start taking some responsibility for our kids actions.

It's all well and good to smack the child but who's smacking the parents?

seriously the kids realize they can do what they want that is a habit the so called medical quacks will reinforce. i was into alot of bad stuff when i was young but then my grandfather reminded my mother how well switches worked on her and guess what they workrd on me too. inoticed that the generation of kids that came out after corporal ounishement was removed from local schools had hell of alot more discipline problems.

Originally posted by dgtempe
Anyway, they woke up at 4:30 am this morning and started throwing things

I only saw this thread today, and I only read your posts (it's quicker and it gives me an understanding of what is happening), so sorry if this was already posted.

To me, the most noticeable thing was the above quote.

Children need more sleep than adults, and I was reminded of that maybe two or three months ago.

I live near a school for the 5th and 6th grade (and I think now up to the 9th), for kids usually between 10 and 13 (or up to 16, if they have 9th grade classes), and one day, when I was walking back home on my lunch hour (I work some 100 metres away from home ) I heard two kids talking. One of them was complaining of feeling too tired, because he had too many things to do, with the classes, some after school activities and the studying, so he was complaining to his friend that he could only get 10 hours' sleep each night.

My first reaction was to think that it was strange, after all I only sleep six hours every night (seven now that I'm enjoying my holidays ), but then I remembered how things were when I was a kid, and I also remembered that the older we get the less sleep we need.

So, the above quote makes me think that there is something really wrong with them, I don't know at what hours they go to bed (here in Portugal we usually go to bed relatively late, I think it's normal for kids to go to bed around 10PM), but they should sleep around 10 hours, and not awake at 4:30.

One of the possibilities that I see (and I am not a doctor) is that there is something worrying them, or maybe there is something that is exciting them during the day and making them more alert.

I hope you and your son find a solution fast, I think that if they keep on behaving like that some more years things will probably turn very bad.

PS: another thing I thought while I was looking through the Merck manuals (my primary source of medical information), and I don't think this was referenced in your posts. For how long have the kids being with their father? Were they always like this? Was there any change in their sleeping habits or location?

reply to post by dgtempe
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I do believe there is such a thing as demon possession. The fact that someone was involved in drugs simply heightens my suspicion.

Of course, the people on this blog who despise "believers" (but, incidentally seem to have no problem with aliens) will come out of the woodwork on this.

You have to ask yourself, "Are we spiritual beings?" An empirical answer for that has been conducted many times. Humans on the point of death have been weighed moments before passing and then slightly after passing from this life. You can research it under "How much does a soul weigh?" The average is about 2 or 3 ounces.

Since we can answer this in the affirmative, one naturally looks at religion, and there are thousnads of them. The esiest manner of winnowing away the chaff is to ask "What is the biggest difference in religions?" You could look at mono- vs. poly-theistic ones.

But I would say the biggest difference would be, "Which religion says I need a Savior?"

There is only one - Christianity. All the rest say your future lies in your own ability to 'save yourself' through good deeds, etc. Of course, there are various forms of "Christianity". Let's not get into that.

Rather, just go to the Bible, and see what Christ Himself has to say about it. A passage I recommend is Matthew 17 (specifically vs. 14-21).

The people praying and fasting must be Christians. Oh, and for those who trust psychology, there is an old story:

Psychology is a compound word made up of psuche (Greek for 'soul') and ologos (for 'a word about or study of'. ) Before Freud, it was the study of the soul. Freud, being an aetheist, said he did not believe in souls, but rather studied the human mind.
Along came the behavioralists, who neither believed in a soul or a mind. Instead they say we react to stimuli only. There is no mind or soul. So they studied rats.
The moral is: "First Psychology lost its soul, then it lost its mind."

reply to post by skycopilot


Just some nit-picking about your post.

ATS is not a blog, its a forum, or more correctly, a group of forums.

The weighing of the body at the time of death was done only by one doctor, and he only measured it in four of the six patients he used. By a coincidence (or maybe not), all died of tuberculosis. To see if this reaction was common in all animals he compared with in 15 dogs that were drugged to keep them still on the scales (and he probably killed the dogs just to do the experiment). Considering all this, his experiment can not be considered as evidence of anything, as he himself said.

PS: sorry everybody for the off-topic, but I hate when people call ATS a "blog".

Send them 2 kids to live with me for a while they will be angles when i send them back.

reply to post by Mitsuskitzo


But would they be right angles, acute angles or obtuse angles?

I think your thinking of an adult and not as a child.

The idea of everything you want is different to a chid then it is for an adult.

when your nine, you don't care if you have medical coverage.


Do they have structure? Do they have rules, does your son actually initiate discipline?

Kids need that most before all else. Not being spoiled. But kids feel loved when parents set boundaries, and keep the rules.

I mean this kindly, not an attack, but it may be your son is a pushover. I understand the stress. But if my kid deliberately smashed two windows, I wouldn't be curled up on the floor, I would be making sure his life was hell and he didn't see daylight for awhile.



YOur son may be falling for the same toxic path by giving kids whatever they want because he feels guilty for a broken family.

This never works, and you end up with bratty rotten kids.

In fact, if you adopt an older trouble child, they TRAIN you to not fall to the tempation of spoiling them, but to set rules and boundaries and stick by them, and to give a strict structure.


Kids act out hypothetically.

What their actions say, is: No one cares about me and what I do, why should I care about them?

And the action screams: I need attention.


[edit on 19-8-2009 by nixie_nox]

I have two nine year olds and they are not "dicks" or brats or anything else. They would not destroy a store, run around acting like spazzes and certainly would never break a car window.

Though, they have been raised in a loving home with two parents and neither of us have been or are on drugs.

I expect my kids to clean their rooms, vacuum the upstairs, clean their own bathroom, bring down their dirty clothes and empty the dishwasher. They also fold and put away their own clothes

They do not get allowance or paid for this. They are a part of the household, get their clothing and food bought for them and a roof over their heads. They get to do sports, gymnasts and arts.

I don't open a can of whoop ass on them and I don't beat on them. they have been swatted at times and they have lost privileges at times. They had their doors taken off the hinges and taken away when they kept slamming them. That stopped the door slamming

So, not all kids are bad. My kids friends are pretty sweet too. Again, they have loving stable families who enforce rules.

I don't know what to tell you to do. It sounds really really messed up and I cannot imagine dealing with such a thing. I do believe kids can be born missing something and I hope that your grandchildren were not. That it is an expression of their childhood so far and can be corrected. If they are truly sociopaths, I don't know what I'd do

Okay, continuing from my last post right here.

I believe the problem is mostly cultural and psychological, but I'm also looking into the biological aspect to it, such as pollution and climate change, and other unknown aspect that might be related, such as this. Pregnancy and Your Cell Phone.

Anyway, I'm against using force to discipline children (especially without knowing what the root of the problem is), but if I ever have to use force to discipline people, 'the victims' will be the adults rather than the children.