These Little Ones being born now are...missing something

reply to post by pai mei


We are all tribal people.

A lot of tribal people beat their children.

I'm serious about trying to get your kids into making music if they are unruly though (or even if they are not).

Buy them a guitar and see how they like it.

reply to post by dgtempe


Hi dg, first thing is get them off the pharmaceuticals. They only keep emotions suppressed but the natural order will make them periodically snap.

Its about balance. These meds only put people out of balance.


Get them off the meds and use discipline, love and strength.

It will take time to undo what the mother has done and what the meds have done. The meds treat the symptoms and do not cure.

Nature has no room for these kind of mads and like a weed growing between the cracks of cement nature will rule. The meds do nothing but make nature have to crack the cement.

reply to post by mopusvindictus


Thank you for putting so much thought into your post. You are absolutely right in many ways. See, i dont live with them. I live the next town over with my husband. I get a call "Quick, drop what you're doing and come quick, its an emergency". click.

So off we go, thinking somebody got hurt this time.

I know my son was totally upset, traumatized by the breaking of his windshields, now both front and back when he thought they were outside playing

But he's into the drama now of having to be taken away by ambulance because of chest pains, and i'm not saying its not true, or that he didnt feel pain in his heart, but i just dont kow what his reaction should have been. I dont know.
We all react differently, i would be inclined to take a shoe and beat their asses with the shoe. He yells and doesnt touch.

He HAS taken away everything out of their rooms, thrown it out, given it away, but i also know in my heart he will replace those items eventually, without the kids showing any signs of any more responsibility or anything.

I have to watch myself because i can be a beast. Seriously, i have a Spanish temper and when i go off, i go off. But i dont want to be arrested nor do i want to "hurt' the kids- I dont like to hurt anyone but i know its within ME to do it and do a good job at it.

Since i'm not here all the time, i am guessing there is more to it that i know, but its really a problem.

he needs to stand firm and not replace those items until there is a change in the behavior.

there should be some family counciling, this affects you your son and the grand children

for people who say, just take them off the meds, do you have any idea what you are talking about?? if you abruptly take someone off psychiatric drugs you get a rebound effect that can be even worse than why they were put on in the first place. Yes I speak from first hand experience with my grown daughter.

if they have been seeing therapist for a while and nothing improving, maybe you need another, the first one might not be a good fit.

Hang in there . If there is any sign they are a danger to others, then they need more help then you or your son can give them, they might need to be in a facility where they need full time help for a period of time

reply to post by dgtempe


This is everywhere,

My friend is an RN at a hospital for these kind of children, this is pandemic.

reply to post by EyesWideShut


Yep you nailed it right on the head my friend. The reason kids today are so antisocial, carrying guns at 7 years old or younger is the simple fact that parents do not spank them when they were bad as children. Heck I grew up in a loving faimly enviroment but if you stepped out of line you knew you were going to get the belt. And yes I did get the belt alot of times but I turned out rather good. So the way I see it, the gov't took away the right for parents to spank there own kids and see how they have become.

My friend is an RN at a hospital for these kind of children, this is pandemic.

reply to post by Stormdancer777


I think you could be right!!! Meth is a big problem here in Australia and the world but from my perseption it is rife in the states.

I was watching America Exposed Uncut about this little boy who had a drug addict mother and was now being raised by a foster Mum who fears for her life somtimes and knows what this kid can do,but she loves him and when he is on his Meds he nice kid but can flip like a switch and has no sence of wrong somthing akin to how a serial killer feels.

For example this poor boy just reachd up and pulled his front tooth out with his bear hand (not on camara) and then showed it to his foster mum casual as! with blood gushing out of his mouth,,,,,she said he feels no pain like we do.

Gosh that was a heavy story,Anyone else catch that one? this boys story seems as tragic as the OP of this thread.

I would like to add i was smaked from piller to post as a kid i was also in a English boarding school from the age of 4 to 11 and got the Whacks as they called all the bloody time!! It did me nothing but HARM it took me years to get over it i hold nothing but resentment for the disapline dished out to me(all for my own good) I actually dont remember being that Naughty!!!!! and worked in a very negitive way for me.

So for all you out there that say a Smack is good etc fine. I'm a Dad yes i have smacked only on the bottom or hand and then to be Honest out of a reaction type of thing like nearly running in road to nearly dropping hot water,,Etc. but when you say a bloody good Beating did me the World of good,,,,Did it? i mean really, set your mind back all those years re live the moment.
Of course there will be the exeption where yes that Beating you got changed your ways,,,,,,ill pay that.
This is a heavy and sad thread my Heart go's out to you OP

reply to post by dgtempe


Thanks DG always enjoy seeing you around particularly under less stress!!!

He needs to enable help, besides just you... and not shrinks.

Emotional states transfer, it sounds obvious he's frightened and probably traumatized himself too...

First step in calming the kids needs to be calming himself

It's hard how does one Meditate lets say or stress relief as a single parent, particularly a male who is not going to be innately used to dealing with this kind of stress, men are often great under fire, but long prolonged stress, children crying can unwind a pro wrestler

It's hard but kids pick up on...body language, stress, mental states very easy

Finance and self worth can be so intricately connected for men too...

That connection needs to be droped, we all want our kids to have the best, but... Material value wont bring calm to him, it was in the example (all I have to work with) a windshield...

The windshield I assume connects him to... his income...

Thus the huge anxiety attack...

I don't know the situation, but perhaps, it would be better to simply start the process, apply to section 8 food stamps, reduce the work load, maybe try to make some money on the net... cash assistance... get a smaller place...

Like I said I don't know the circumstances, but... time is more important than money, time with kids...

I have to ask, by damaging the car perhaps they are simply... sending him a message?

Suggestions are general... typical things that Women do in this situation to get by and raise the children.

Maybe what he needs in actuality to be a Mom, is to think like a Mom

There are, work at home options... things, ways

But he is for all intents and purposes a Mother now...

Maybe he just needs to think and act like one, let go of what he is holding onto that he connects his masculine side to... Money, Career...

There is time when kids are older

Perhaps he is still trying to keep his "picture" in his head of who He WANTED top be while in reality his whole life has changed

Relief from that stress can be as simple as an Epiphany, a realization that his whole life has changed and embrace it...


All I can say is, a couple of years ago I was divorced...

the situation isn't the same... but for a time I tried to follow MY PLAN for MY LIFE

Recently... I came to terms with that It wasn't under my control, I moved away from city to be closer to kids, I gave up partying that I was doing... many things...many things

But...

What happened is, when I Changed my plans to fit the reality of my circumstances and let go of myself...

I became happy and calm and I am... actually really satisfied lately

I gave up myself and embraced a new self, stoped fighting that it wasnt what I wanted

and in return I discovered that

I didn't know what the Flip made me happy in the first place anyway and I put myself through hell trying to stick to MY plan, which honestly sucked lol

I don't know Dg

Hopefully a few words in there that could help your son shed some light on inner self and help him let go and find peace with his NEW circumstances

I think... I think from what I hear, your son might need to embrace Motherhood, life as a single mom and what that means... and it's a pleasure lol, you know... it has wonderful elements

There is no power, no fortune, no reward outside of self...

But... still its a good life...

and just for now, just for a few years until they are older... he can't be very old, there is no rush

reply to post by dgtempe


What happens when the kids act out? How does your son react? How do you react?

I don't have a solution but often kids are trying to obtain attention of a partcular kind. They hurt so they want you to hurt for example. So I wonder if by ignoring these acts completely and consistently it may have some effect and they may seek alternative ways of obtaining the attention that they require. If you think of this behaviour as an entity and you and your son refuse to feed that entity it will starve and die, and in it's place something else will come (in theory). When they smash the windshield, leave it, don't care about it (even if you do), shrug your shoulders and say, oh well no car then. It is hard, but let them know that the car was for them, to get them around, to get them to places, it means nothing to you, they haven't hurt you, they have hurt themselves. Don't shout or cry, they want that, they want you to suffer in the way they think that they are suffering. But make them walk everywhere (hard on you or your son, because you'll have to walk too or whatever, go without whatever it is that they have destroyed) or get public transport. You have to show them the value of those things to them, of what they have damaged, they need to understand that it is only themselves that they are hurting. Most importantly don't react, don't care, if you or your son needs to scream, do it into a pillow and don't let them see it, create a reality for them where you care as little about the possessions of others as they do. Or another way is when they are out at school, throw all their stuff in a bin bag and shove it in the loft, tell them you had to sell their stuff to fix the car or whatever. Tell them it is hock and you can get it back bit by bit, but only if you have the spare cash, which means no more damage.

There is no quick fix, but these kids aren't evil, but it will take lots of hard work to turn them around. Kids need consistentcy, they crave regularity and routine, and they need to know that you will love them no matter what. Currently the kids don't believe that, and why should they, their Mum is a loser and doesn't care two hoots about them, and in their little minds they probably think Dad only has them because he has to. Kids do not understand responsibility and duty until it is taught to them, and this is especially true in kids that have had the rug pulled out from under them at an early age. You and your son can turn these kids around, no professional can do that for you, no medication will fix it, and it will seem sometimes futile and definately thankless, but you know that at the end of it, it'll be so worth it. They need to know that it is safe for them to love you, that you won't leave them or put them into care. Right now, in their minds they are thinking that your son will get sick of them soon and off-load them, they might as well get it over with asap. Prove them wrong, show them just how unconditional love can be, give attention only to the good stuff, never to the bad stuff, when they do stuff like that, imagine it is invisible, they are invisible, show them that 'bad kids' don't exist, only good, loving kids do.

Best of luck to you and your son. These kids (all kids) are worth the effort and never forget it. None of us asked to be born and these kids sound as if they wish they hadn't.

Edit to add: Have just reread the post above mine, truly great advice and insight. Your son whether he chose to or not brought those kids into the world. They need him now and everything else can take a back seat, everything else can wait. He needs as the above poster stated, to think about what it is to be a mother, and therefore he needs you to be his mother (not the kids grandmother, forget them) and show him the way. They need him, he needs you.

[edit on 6-8-2009 by coodeytar]

reply to post by dgtempe


Personally, I would have just lightly nudged the child into the glass of the broken windshield. If he wants to break it, he can learn the risks of falling/flying glass. It might cost some medical bills but the lesson would be learned..

Give up. They are already ruined.

Give them away. Take legal action to completely remove them from your family and give them to an orphanage or whatever state run agency will take them.

They are only flesh and blood.

Your son can make more when he is older and more capable.

Don't worry about it. Just give them away like bad dogs. They'll learn on their own, or they won't, whatever. It is not wrong to sacrifice wicked children. Just give them away legally and everything will be better in your life. If you keep them things will only get worse and worse.

I know everyone is saying that a good spanking would help but i disagree, the trouble with this situation is that there is a large barrier between your son and the children, spanking them will only reinforce this barrier. i think that they possibly blame him for them not being with mum anymore, he is, in their eyes, the enemy. they need to be shown the reality of drugs, and that their mothers selfish actions are the reason for their situation, and that dad stepping in is a good thing that has saved them from life in a home.

stop giving them everything and let them earn what little they will get, they will begin to appreciate what they do get.

stop taking them to see a psych, this will only help to reinforce a sense of persecution in their minds.

make your son toughen up and stop being a victim, show no reaction to their actions, they do it because it causes a reation to their enemy, and they know he cant do anything to them

it is not ggoing to be an overnight cure, it has probably taken years of neglect to make them like this

lastly, i dont know if this is possible, it may help to have the mother give the father permission in the childrens eyes to care for them,

i hope this all helps, if you need any more guidance let me know

I hesitate to write this, but the manner in which the OP posted sent a shiver up my spine. I'm not suggesting you're a psychopath, DG, but do you realize how eerily similar your comments about your grandchildren are to statements made by people like that woman in Texas who drowned her 4 kids, saying they were "evil?"

They aren't evil, they're children. Children require boundaries and they require stabillity, especially from their parents and grandparents. I'm assuming the addict mother had custody of them during their early years. Massive damage was clearly done. That damage doesn't mean they're lost causes or hopeless cases, though. Now they need the reverse, they need strict limits enforced by a firm but loving hand. I'm no professional, but I am a parent of two active, happy, VERY loved children. Here are some of the issues I see here simply based off your post.

1."Its not enough to give them everything they want"
There's problem #1. You shouldn't ever give a child "everything" they want because you end up with an unappreciative, spoiled brat. Gifts are fine, kids need toys, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with giving a child a present they've been longing for, but if you're not saying "No, you can't have that" more often than you're saying "OK, here's a new toy" then YOU are failing the children.

2. "i yell and yell and still no response"
Problem #2. Yelling at children is an absolutely counter productive, worthless exercise. Save the yelling for when there is a real danger to the child's safety (ie: your toddler is heading out the gate towards the road and you need to get them to stop IMMEDIATELY) otherwise they consider yelling to be status quo and will ignore you until you're out of breath.

3. "they take meds to lessen their Hate they have for everyone"
Problem #3. Not everything in this world can be solved by pills and, oftentimes, pills make problems worse. In fact, I think the fact that these pills don't seem to be working is a *good* sign. It means the children don't have a mental illness, they simply are experiencing normal feelings and emotions (likely rooted in their interaction with the addict mother). Doctors have way overmedicated our youth, calling what used to be simply considered "being a kid" ADHD, hyperactivity, etc. I watch kids on ritalin at the playground when we take our kids and it's really sad... little ones shambling around like 90 year olds in a nursing home. It's no freaking wonder when the drug starts to wear off between doses the kids act like hellions, they've had hours of normalcy stolen from them and need to take advantage of a tiny window during which they can express their energy.

4. I'm assuming that when the boy broke the car windows dad was home. Does dad go outside with the 9 year old and toss a ball around with him, take him fishing, help him build a fort? Sounds to me like you got a bored little boy on your hands and he's trying to get some attention from dad. It also sounds like the only attention he's currently getting is negative or boring (yelling, trips to the psychiatrist, etc). It also sounds like dad may have some issues of his own, a broken car windshield is no reason for a grown man to be collapsed on the floor, unable to breathe. Maybe he'd also benefit from a little bit of exercise outside with the kids.

It is 95% of the time the parents fault.

That is really all there is to it.

reply to post by dgtempe


They are disturbed for sure. if the mother did drugs during the pregnancy, they are lost. I am afraid there is nothing to do. Their genetics have been scrambled and the best you can hope for is the proper care in a mental health facility until the right people can provide the right meds.

God willing this is not true. But I don't know from your first post.

If they were born clean, then it is a deep down problem. You need to approach the children from a unique direction.

I was Satan's child too. I grew out of it because a psychiatrist talked to me, and helped me a bit. But because you said you don't have much money, I will explained how I felt in my childhood when I met with him. It is best advised that you do this with one of your friends that the children does not know. someone with a calm and nice voice and face.

The children have a part of them that takes pleasure in causing pain to others because they experienced seeing pain as young kids. The only way to break this is to talk to them, probing their minds very very deeply. Asking personal questions like ones you couldn't imagine. You have to make them comfortable in your presence, then make them uncomfortable with your questions. You have to make them feel the confusion of having someone they like betray their privacy. Once this is done, they will feel that they have no way to hide their inner deepest thoughts. This will hopefully cause a trigger. All you have to do is keep a smile on your face. Seeing you happy as they feel uncomfortable makes them feel sad. Once you see the perplexity on their faces, simply tell them "that's how daddy feels, and if you don't stop behaving as you do and making him sad, I will make sure you feel the same way"


This is how the guy broke me. As a child I was a hell raiser, partly because I was spoiled, and partly because of grief from school work and bullies. SO I took it out on my family. So my family sent me to a psychiatrist, and the above is my best recollection of what he did. We spent several sessions becoming friends and playing chess. Then all of the sudden came the questions. My little mind saw him as a friend, yet he was violating my privacy by asking me these deep questions. So I answered them, and it was like removing evil from me. saying what was wrong inside me and discussing ways to fix it made me good again. And from then on I was happy and nice.

[edit on 7-8-2009 by Gorman91]

I know a couple that adopted a kid from Eastern Europe. When young, the kid was kept in some kind of horrible state orphanage where the babies were just lined up like rats in a cage and given no love or human contact.

The result was a "wild child" who would bite, act out, etc. The adoptive parents were at their wits end, they didn't know what to do. The shrink they consulted told them they needed to start the nurturing process from the beginning, as if the kid was an infant, even though by this point he was already 3 years old. This meant they had to hold him, rock him, plenty of gentle physical contact, murmur to him like an infant...it took a while but apparently the method has been a great success and the kid is really improving.

Of course, this kid is still a toddler so its possible to "re-set" the nurturing process. I'm not sure that would work if the kid was much older...for some reason I can't see this working with a teen kid, for example...but at least it shows change is possible.

something truly is"different" or "missing" from some kids these days...she is right there.....I have done daycare and babysitting for the last 23 years at least, and trust me...something is VERY different...

Over the last 4 years I have met a total of 5 of these kids...... I was terrified of them...felt creeped right out and threated by them, and got that feeling like from the evil kid in butterfly effect..

I couldn't have anything to DO with them.... I KNEW there was nothing I could do, no love, no discpline, no nothing....they were not even like kids....more like evil adults holding some little kids body hostage.....it is scary.

reply to post by Gorman91


wow, that is encouraging...wish I could get a good phsyciatrist... I am a nice person, but have so much pain.