Originally posted by triune
There are a couple of reasons why we cant see PX (Wormwood).

1. Its a brown dwarf star. Meaning its a failed star and does not burn brightly like a 'real sun'. Therefore it does not give off very much light and cannot yet be seen with a normal optical telescope unless you know its presice location at the right time of the year. It can be detected with an infa red scope, and the US have spent billions of dollars setting up the South Pole Telescope (SPT) in Antarctica.

2. Its is said PX is approaching us from below the ecliptic, thus can only be detected from low in the southern hemisphere (thus the SPT).

It is still at least 2 - 3 years away. Its a loooong way off yet, but as it gets closer to the sun it will brighten up, and eventually will be seen in the day time and appear as a second sun in the sky.

Jupiter does not have it's own light source, it only reflects light. We can see this reflection off light from Jupiter very well indeed. And a brown dwarf could be 20-80 times the mass of Jupiter. This would be seen in visible wavelengths very clearly.

A brown dwarf would never appear as a second sun as it wouldn't ever have ignition of hydrogen-fusion. In fact it wouldn't even be as bright as the full moon.

Anyway everything else you said was just made up.

Is your best evidence for the existence of a brown dwarf in the southern hemisphere that the US has spent billions on the SPT. Hmm maybe there are plenty of other distant deep-sky objects to observe without needing to assume a localised brown dwarf?

You claim an optical scope cannot see this unless a precise location is known. Well here's news for you -> Jupiter which is smaller and would be around the same distance away is bright enough to see with the naked eye.

The argument of a brown dwarf being below the ecliptic does not bode well either, as on the same plane this would have been observed by ground based scopes when it was further away from us. Pluto in 1930, along with many other dwarf planets have been discovered using optical scopes, and the masses of these are on a scale much less than a brown dwarf's mass.

And on a different plane of orbiit it would have been observable many times as it passed above and below the Earth.

So:

-> 1. If a localised brown dwarf existed we would have observed it already by ground based optical scopes.

-> 2. Therefore it's unlikely any localised brown dwarfs exist since we haven't observed any.

I have found this thread very interesting since it started. I read part of the previous thread started but ET_Man (or close to it, sorry if I got the name incorrect) but that thread started out like such a game that by the time it got interesting, I was done with it. This is ATS, if you have something to say, come out and say it. Some people will insult you, some will ridicule you, some will believe blindly, and some will listen to what you have to say with an open mind and form an opinion based on the information provided after some research of their own. That is just the way it is.

I have to say that I don't think AntiLieGuy is ignoring people who disagree, it seems to me that he is ignoring the ignorant people who would rather entertain themselves at his expense. There is a big difference between disagreeing with someone and ridiculing them for what they choose to believe. Personally I feel ever man and women on this planet is free to believe whatever they choose to no matter how silly I may think it is. That still does not give me any right to belittle that person.

In closing I just want to say that some of us are probably enjoying this thread and are curious to see what else comes of it. So please, if you disagree, do so respectfully so that the rest of us can continue to enjoy the thread. Healthy debate is a beautiful thing, name calling and insulting others simply shows your ignorance and intolerance of others. So please, let's keep this civil.

Originally posted by MrWendal
I have found this thread very interesting since it started. I read part of the previous thread started but ET_Man (or close to it, sorry if I got the name incorrect) but that thread started out like such a game that by the time it got interesting, I was done with it. This is ATS, if you have something to say, come out and say it. Some people will insult you, some will ridicule you, some will believe blindly, and some will listen to what you have to say with an open mind and form an opinion based on the information provided after some research of their own. That is just the way it is.

I have to say that I don't think AntiLieGuy is ignoring people who disagree, it seems to me that he is ignoring the ignorant people who would rather entertain themselves at his expense. There is a big difference between disagreeing with someone and ridiculing them for what they choose to believe. Personally I feel ever man and women on this planet is free to believe whatever they choose to no matter how silly I may think it is. That still does not give me any right to belittle that person.

In closing I just want to say that some of us are probably enjoying this thread and are curious to see what else comes of it. So please, if you disagree, do so respectfully so that the rest of us can continue to enjoy the thread. Healthy debate is a beautiful thing, name calling and insulting others simply shows your ignorance and intolerance of others. So please, let's keep this civil.

Yes healthy debate is necessary. And that means a debate of more than "I believe this because I want it to be true" kind of argument. You see where I'm going. If someone cannot or will not explain his beliefs then to be honest, they are a farce.

AntiLieGuy said chemtrails block planet x. I asked him to explain how this was possible since chemtrails would have to be all over the Earth for this to happen. Yet he declined to respond. And chose to block, instead of actual real debate.

Funny that isn't it, if he knows something we don't that he decides to keep it to himself. Is that the correct conclusion... or was my conclusion of him being utterly paranoid much more accurate.

If sceptics are automatically blocked by believers, then the wholly uneducated outlook of patting each other on the back and agreeing will not get them anywhere.

I never said what he said was impossible, but just implausible to the extent that he talked about it. He's either not telling us the whole story that he's learnt, or he's just jumping to a conclusion based on a fantasy. It seems apparent that he cannot explain his so called theory because it's just a guess, by his unwillingness to make an attempt.

That's just using logic, and everyone is bound by some kind of rationality should they wish to be taken seriously.

Of course if sceptics are ignored they won't always be around, and so can leave people like AntiLieGuy can be left to collapse in their own mire of absurdity.

If light-hearted humour is enough to close your ears and yell & scream "I don't wanna' listen cos' you disagree with me", whilst referring to them knowing full-well that they'll read no further responses, then I doubt that guy who blocks those who disagree can ever hold any form of credibility at all, and lacks any starting basis for a mature healthy debate.

You can often realise a person's level of education from the way they write sentences. And it's obvious that a person with a low-level of education or possibly mental health issues wouldn't be able to write coherent sentences, or understand the basic misconceptions they are making.

Everyone to some extent will do this - whether it's lack of knowledge in quantum physics to assume the LHC can produce a black hole to swallow the earth, or simply the lack of understanding of contrails. That's why I asked him to explain his "guess" and try and make it into a theory. And his unwillingness does not bode well for his "guess".

[edit on 5-7-2009 by john124]

[edit on 5-7-2009 by john124]

ahimsa: Good links. I shouldve made a page for that too. the bush's arent the only ones buyng land off this continent. I believe they know about this coming war too, and at the highest levels it is being planned.

MrWendal: yea, et_man seemed to be playing a game but i think he knows things. i will ignore anyone who repeats the govt lies i have come to hate so much on youtube. ridicule and fake science are their main techniques. so far on here i only ignored one person and i would almost bet $ they are govt liars. After repeatedly making the ones on youtube look like the stupid liars they are, they threatened me with the anti-patriot act. i sent em about 2 pages of crap for that and accused them of treason, to which they never responded. theyre not doing anything at my expense cause i really dont care. this entire country will be completely destroyed in three months. Nothing they say has any effect on me whatsoever. there isnt much else in the way of information that anyone will get from this thread unless they start reading the books of the Bible concerning this war, and Ezekiel and Amos are among the best. if one person does something to prepare...leave or store 2 years of food and water, then I'll be happy. As a side note, the Bible says that anyone who fights or runs will die.

Ironic that AntiLieGuy's next comment was just as I described - paranoid.

We see this time and time again, if we disagree we get called govt. spies, agents etc. It's gone beyond ridiculousness. I'm not American, I have no affiliation with the US govt. Does it come to a point that some people are so desperate they throw around false accusations to deter people from the fact that they "cannot" even explain one ounce of their fantasy.

I would like him to actually apply science to what he claims. To make a claim that those who have disagreed are using "fake" science, when in fact he hasn't used any science at all to even try and prove his "guess" is worthy of ridicule IMO.

And it would be helpful for him to say what this "fake" science is, that he is saying has been used.

[edit on 5-7-2009 by john124]

[edit on 5-7-2009 by john124]

well...i think having an open mind is a start in the right direction don't you?

do you know how difficult it is in these tough economic times to acquire two plus years of food stuffs? or to just up and move out of the country?

i would think that north america is not going to be the only country in turmoil if all of this turns out to be true

Russia will rule with an iron fist huh? for 80 years even.

Me not think so.

Originally posted by anabiono
well...i think having an open mind is a start in the right direction don't you?

do you know how difficult it is in these tough economic times to acquire two plus years of food stuffs? or to just up and move out of the country?

i would think that north america is not going to be the only country in turmoil if all of this turns out to be true

Of course, what many believers don't understand is that sceptics are open-minded to anything within reason.

If you close your mind to only your own beliefs then it's difficult for it to ever be opened again.

If this happens then I doubt anywhere in the world would be safe. But I'm not going to base my life-plans on some half-concocted story that doesn't have one shred of credibility as of this moment in time on this thread, and appears to be the workings of a few people's overactive imaginations.

Even if we were to assume the bible is accurate, which is another debate altogether, the meaning of the texts given out here can be interpreted in many different ways.

If someone is making a claim and nobody believes him, then it's the responsiblity of that particular person or group of people to convince them.

That's what I'm waiting for, and have asked for all along. To expect a reasonable explanation with some form of evidence is not being closed-minded, it's being rational and logical. Otherwise we would never know what to accept as fact.

And if this cannot be provided, then they only have themselves to blame for any such humour made towards them.

[edit on 5-7-2009 by john124]

Originally posted by 12.21.12
Russia will rule with an iron fist huh? for 80 years even.

Me not think so.

Russia does not have the resources to maintain their military hardware for even 1 year of world ruling.

Glad to see some rational points put forward. This thread was heading into the dark ages.

so, has anyone on this planet ever seen this planet X...because I am listening to this gilbert cat on the youtube radio link and he says you just need some infrared lens and a crap telescope

anyone?

buehler?



[edit on 5-7-2009 by anabiono]

I havent seen Nibiru because of the chemtrails and i dont have IR imagers but I know it is there.

Someone ask him this question: -> How does he know it's there then?

Does anyone else think his guess about chemtrails blocking a brown dwarf are a bit skywards?

12.21.12: read the first nine or so pages of news headlines in my document and you wont say that. Russia has been very straight-forward and consistent that they will use nukes preemptively to protect their allies and one of their main allies is Iran and all their energy reserves. in addition, they have surrounded us in the three oceans above us, subs to either side, bombers in venenzuela and the main invasion force is stationed in siberia.....where they took out our satellite a couple months ago.