My Only God Thread. Why, If God Is Our Father, Doent He Intervene So We Dont Die Or Suffer?

According to the bible no man shall see the face of god and live. Explain yourself.

Exodus 33:20
There shall no man see me, and live.
John 1:18
No man hath seen God at any time.

John 6:46
Not that any man hath seen the Father.

1 Timothy 1:17
Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.

1 Timothy 6:16
Whom no man hath seen nor can see.

1 John 4:12
No man hath seen God at any time.

Originally posted by Jim Scott

From what I have come to understand the true creator...the one that we ALL can be traced back to...doesn't relate to any of it's creations in any traditional way we have been told a God does. It doesn't answer prayers, require worship, and it doesn't get involved in any concrete way. It simply exists in a state beyond our limited comprehension.

I can personally assure you that God relates to His creations. I have personally seen Him. I have met others who have personally seen Him, also. He has answered so many of my prayers, and the prayers of my family, that I am amazed.

He has guaranteed to you that you can personally see Him, too.
John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

[edit on 6-7-2009 by favouriteslave]

Back to the OP:

Originally posted by dgtempe
I am wondering, instead of sending us fire and brimstone, why doesnt a compassionate God intervene in a way that will not kill, men women and children, a planet that will hit and blow us out of orbit, and horrible things like that??? He made us, damn it. Why did he make us FLAWED. Its HIS fault.

There's nothing compassionate here that i can see.

He did. He allowed Himself to be killed instead of you. The only thing that matters is the long run. Your 80 years on Earth are nothing compared to eternal life. Why quibble over the 80 years? You have been provided a way to eternal life, and it's for free. What is the problem? Too good to be true? If you want to blame God for the "mistake", how about giving God credit for the "solution"?

How compassionate is He? "Greater love hath no man than this, than that a man lay down his life for a friend." "You are my friends when you do what I say." "Therefore shall all men know ye are my disciples, that ye have love one for another."

Where is the room here to complain? You have a short opportunity here to help others. After here, they won't need it. They'll have everything.

Perhaps He made you flawed because you have some lessons to learn. That is exactly why He removed the Tree of Life from your access.

[edit on 6-7-2009 by Jim Scott]

reply to post by favouriteslave

Call him pro death penalty!
Must be from texas!
Whoo whoo! Sorry, um, what was I thinking...

Oh ya. We all die sooner or later! Whats the biggie?
If you dont beleive anyway, what does it matter?
You're just dead.

But, we also all get another chance to live forever!
All part of the plan.
One only has to look as far as these threads to see that
many people feel something is changing/coming...

It's just the getting to there that sux, sometimes!
Can you even imagine true peace?
Where lions lay with the lambs?
Where people dont kill creatures or other people
just for fun? That too is incomprehensible.
I guess killin' has to happen sometimes.

[edit on 6-7-2009 by dodadoom]

Originally posted by favouriteslave
According to the bible no man shall see the face of god and live. Explain yourself.

Exodus 33:20
There shall no man see me, and live.

Originally posted by Jim Scott

From what I have come to understand the true creator...the one that we ALL can be traced back to...doesn't relate to any of it's creations in any traditional way we have been told a God does. It doesn't answer prayers, require worship, and it doesn't get involved in any concrete way. It simply exists in a state beyond our limited comprehension.

I can personally assure you that God relates to His creations. I have personally seen Him. I have met others who have personally seen Him, also. He has answered so many of my prayers, and the prayers of my family, that I am amazed.

He has guaranteed to you that you can personally see Him, too.
John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Philippians 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

In the person of Jesus, you can see God.

John 14:9
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

reply to post by favouriteslave


I like the way you ask the hard questions and refuse to drink the proverbial punch Good job

Originally posted by favouriteslave
Its a vicious circle. God already knew she would eat of it regardless who told her. So he is to blame. You cannot be all knowing, all encompassing and all powerful and let this happen on your watch. Either god is not the 3 "O"s or he's just playing games with his newest creations. It's all simply a plan to keep people in fear and in control.
Also, talking snakes simply don't exist.

I know there will be people being murdered today. Am I to blame? It wasn't a snake, and it wasn't an apple. It was Satan entering into the serpent, and it was a fruit. (Just thought I'd help here on an often confused situation). And here's a start on talking animals: video.google.com...#

Originally posted by Jim Scott

Originally posted by favouriteslave
It probably would have been a good idea not to tell Adam and Eve about the Tree of Knowledge and good and evil. If they wouldn't have known then it wouldn't have been a sin right? OR maybe he should have never put those trees in the garden since he already knew they would take a bite. Could have saved him, Jesus and a whole bunch from dying.
[snip]

Again, without choice there is no love. It's always about giving us a choice, freedom to choose, if you will. Perhaps you would rather live in a country without choice. Whenever you turn around, someone is watching you to be sure you conform to the rules. You must always arise at 6 am. You must only eat what you are told to eat for breakfast. You must go to the same job each day and be there at exactly 8 am. You must love your wife, whether she is being nice or not. You must never spank your kids. You must never eat sugar or candy. You must never move out of your chair from 7 pm to 10pm and you must only watch Channel 7. You must go to a neighborhood meeting every Tuesday at 6 pm. You must attend every meeting at your children's school. You must have four children. You must make sure that each of your four children also obey these rules every day of their lives, and you must never spank them to insure they comply. etc.

reply to post by lee anoma
You speak the truth. I can relate to your sensibility of the need for growth in this life.

Fauvoriteslave, look at sodom and gomorah for example.
He used that as a lesson for all of humanity.
The scary thing is, it is similar to what is going on now!
Even if you deny "IT's" very existence, isnt it wise
to leave some margin for error?
Just in case?
Do you believe a friend, when they tell
you dont touch that its hot, for example.
Do you have faith in what another says, or do
you touch it and get burned because you didn't believe them?
Would you then blame them because they couldnt
adequately explain WHY its hot? Just asking the hard questions too.

Originally posted by favouriteslave
Um, god doesn't seem to have any qualms about killing anyone! He does it repeatedly throughout the old testament. According to that we are ALL his children. killing is killing.[edit on 6-7-2009 by favouriteslave]

God has a different perspective on life and pretty much everything.
Isaiah 55:8
For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.

The God who gave you life can take your life. He owns it, you get to live it and use it. It is by His pleasure that you are allowed life and living. He's God.

Job 2:8-10 (King James Version)

8And he took him a potsherd to scrape himself withal; and he sat down among the ashes.

9Then said his wife unto him, Dost thou still retain thine integrity? curse God, and die.

10But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.

reply to post by jfj123


So says the guy that claimed that because there are a lot of Christians what they say about the concept of a "God" is the only one that counts. All the while portrarying childish absurd abstractions as their beliefs. You in your over eager foolishness to attack Christianity show little more than you're lack, not theirs.

You say I am a Christian, though I said this:

Well considering the fact that it's been a very long time since he existed I find it hard to believe any of the quotes. Fish stories being an example why. And how opportunists twist things to their advantage when they can get away with it being another.

Heck I am not even sure he existed, but I do respect what I think to be his message, despite the distortion.

post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows

You babble constantly about good and evil yet when I state my case as to why good and evil does not exist and is only a human construct you say this lovely gem of copout delusion:

How can evil be man made if god made everything?

Remember god has a PLAN so he has to know everything that will happen from beginning to end. He allowed for the creation of evil within his design.

God must have created evil by allowing the design for it to exist within his plan.

post by jfj123
Which is of course a silly childish completely absurd abstraction of a Christian belief, they do not believe that God made buildings, computers, hammers, etc etc etc. Yet you claim it is so. I wonder why. *Not really*

You say I believe in good and evil despite constant reiterations to the contrary. Remember when you said this?:

You seem to be sticking to your tired old lines.
Sorry this seems to bother you so much.
What I've noticed is that you never REALLY answer my questions but give me the standard mantra.
There can't be good without evil
There can't be heaven without hell
etc..
But you never explain why this is the case.
I can see you believe what you say but you don't understand what you believe.
Notice how I explain my position without resulting to personal insults. You're not a very good christian

post by jfj123
And of course you don't your whole strategy is most likely to annoy your opponent into quitting *or getting banned* the debate thusly giving you the chance to feel the hollow victory you percieve as being right. Not based off of facts, but based off acting like an annoying five year old with a axe to grind til those that dare disagree get annoyed to the point they either get in trouble or walk away.

You repeatedly fail to pay attention to anything your opponent says, yet when called on it your response is a childish "I know you are but what am I.", here's proof, what I said first:

I never said it had no meaning in fact the exact opposite but I also pointed out it is transitory. Kindly, pay attention to what I say please.

post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows

See I pay attention to what you say. Please also kindly do the same

post by jfj123
Which is funny because your response wasn't one of someone who did pay attention.
With outlandish lines like this:

Actually, the problem is that I'm paying too close attention and it's frustrating for you.

post by jfj123

It's all there in the history, you betraying your ignorant over eagerness to call others fools all the while making a fool of yourself. I could go on.

Well considering the fact that it's been a very long time since he existed I find it hard to believe any of the quotes.

Compare the book of Isaiah in the Dead Sea Scrolls to the KJV Isaiah, then tell me God does not preserve His word. They are 2000 years apart, and are virtually identical. When a scribe wrote the copy, he had someone else checking him. They counted the number of letters in a line, words on a page, made sure the same words were the same number of words apart, etc. It was as exacting as is humanly possible.

How can evil be man made if god made everything? Remember god has a PLAN so he has to know everything that will happen from beginning to end. He allowed for the creation of evil within his design.
God must have created evil by allowing the design for it to exist within his plan.

Would you agree that you can personally know evil, such as murders on tv tonight, without being a participant in evil? Do you know for certain that a murder will take place tomorrow somewhere in the world? Because you do not prevent it, does that make you evil? Suppose you had children and they had children, and they had children and so on. In the thousands of children that sprang from you loins, some are murderers. Are you evil because they are murderers, even though you created them?

For a better understanding of true Christianity go here: www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 6-7-2009 by Jim Scott]

I'm sorry............seriously. Satan can enter a snake and make it talk?

Saying your god can do whatever he wants without repercussion is reprehensible. Trying to make excuses for his actions is worse. The god of your bible is a made up story by men. The creator may have created us but man has god intentions and actions all wrong. The bible is just stories and history of the middle east and Asia. Myth mixed with reality to explain why things happen in a very primitive way. Whatever the bible says about anything, I take it with a grain of salt. It's not an authority on anything but proving god is a bad dude. It is NOT the writings of god himself. Anyone can be inspired by god to write, it doesn't have to be chaste and holy.

God is inspiring me to write this so all of you may know his written word is bunk. He wants you to wake up.

Originally posted by Jim Scott

I know there will be people being murdered today. Am I to blame? It wasn't a snake, and it wasn't an apple. It was Satan entering into the serpent, and it was a fruit. (Just thought I'd help here on an often confused situation). And here's a start on talking animals: video.google.com...#

reply to post by Jim Scott


Actually, their not, any scholar will tell you there is a simularity but they are not exactly alike. Heck, there is conjecture that the "Wicked Priest" in the Dead Sea Scrolls is talking about J.C. But at anyrate, I am not, have not, and will not tell you your beliefs are wrong. Only that in my opinion they are. And we all have opinions.

[edit on 6-7-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

reply to post by favouriteslave


If he doesn't harm anyone what buisness is it of yours to argue it with him about his beliefs? I know, I know, there are Christian jackals out there that use their beliefs as some sort of badge of specialness. How do you know this includes him?

[edit on 6-7-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

reply to post by favouriteslave

Okay, so I'll try this again without laughing this time.
Now it sounds like you believe in a "creator",
but just not in God or the bible? Is that right?
Or should I use quotes like everyone else?
Maybe that makes the point sharper.....
and the haze clearer.
You really should read the bible and ask God before
making these assumptions. IMO

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by Jim Scott

 

Actually, their not, any scholar will tell you there is a simularity but they are not exactly alike. Heck, there is conjecture that the "Wicked Priest" in the Dead Sea Scrolls is talking about J.C. But at anyrate, I am not, have not, and will not tell you your beliefs are wrong. Only that in my opinion they are. And we all have opinions.

[edit on 6-7-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

The section you refer to is not the Book of Isaiah. Many Dead Sea Scrolls are simply gnostic texts that we cannot relate to the KJV.

RE the Book of Isaiah: There is little if any grammatical difference, which is the essence of the meaning. www.ancient-hebrew.org... I am not actually defending the KJV, per se, but the original autographs. The inerrant Bible is the one originally written by the pen of the author, not our current translations. Our best efforts to keep the text correct have been remarkable, to say the least. I think you will agree that there is no other text on the face of the Earth with this degree of accuracy or provenance.

There is some publicity about the online Codex Sinaiticus, but it is also a gnostic text, based on the gnostic group the Alexandrians, who were not believers in Jesus Christ like the original apostles. Hence, there are differences in the texts, as they were promoting their own religious views. The translation of that text went into the NIV and the Catholic texts, and many of our new translations, but not the KJV. You get the best in the KJV.

[edit on 6-7-2009 by Jim Scott]

I very sincerely implore you to watch or read " Healing Codes for the Biological Apocalypse", by Dr Len Horowitz.

Find "Secret Mysteries of Americas Beginnings" and all you can find on Adam Weishaupt, the Coven of the New Golden Dawn, The Knoghts Templar, The FreeMasons, The Protocols of the Elders of Sion, The Rothschilds, and Albert Pike.

We are in a Spiritual/Biological Battle. THIS is IT!

Man is fallible, GOD is not.

We've allowed ourselves to be misled by The Illuminated One himself ... and it isn't the Lord.

Yes you are correct, I do believe in a creator/s.
I have read the bible, I have asked god to show me the way. I used to be christian. None of this is new to me. Ask and ye shall receive. This is what "god" showed to me....

I believe in a creator of sorts, if he is indeed the same god of the bible then he's one bad dude and I will separate my self from him. When I say creator I mean other beings from another place, dimension or time scientifically created our race of beings and placed us here. As to their purpose in creating us, I can only speculate.

I believe our creator did not act alone. We have creators......plural

I believe they gave us a basic set of rules and turned us loose

I believe that possibly our creator and what is considered god could be entirely different beings.

I believe there was disagreements between our creators on what should be done with us. Thus the story of war in heaven and the inventions of the opposing force "satan"

I believe some creators or creations may have come and gone throughout history and interfered or interacted with our race.

I believe all races have their own unique story of life and their encounters with the "gods"

I believe all religion is man made to explain what we cannot. It's spliced together with fact and fiction. They are all wrong in some sense.


I do not believe the bible is gods/creators word in it's entirety

I do not accept Jesus as the saviour

I do not believe our creators conjured us up out of dust of the earth but used DNA either from themselves or other races in the universe.

I do not believe our creators made the world in 7 days or even created earth at all.

I do not believe the story of Adam and Eve


I do not believe in sin. Sin is being human


I am not sure what happens after death, but can't wait to find out! I do not fear death

I am not sure if there is a heaven or hell but do consider that they are places in the cosmos or possibly other dimensions

I am not sure if we get another life or if we reincarnate, it's a possibility

I'm sure theres more but I'll stop there.

Originally posted by dodadoom
reply to post by favouriteslave

 

Okay, so I'll try this again without laughing this time.
Now it sounds like you believe in a "creator",
but just not in God or the bible? Is that right?
Or should I use quotes like everyone else?
Maybe that makes the point sharper.....
and the haze clearer.
You really should read the bible and ask God before
making these assumptions. IMO

[edit on 6-7-2009 by favouriteslave]

Originally posted by favouriteslave

I'm sorry............seriously. Satan can enter a snake and make it talk?

Have a look at this photo of Earth, and tell me Satan can't make a snake talk upload.wikimedia.org...

Saying your god can do whatever he wants without repercussion is reprehensible. Trying to make excuses for his actions is worse. The god of your bible is a made up story by men. [snip]

Sorry if I come off as reprehensible.

There are several evidences to give you confidence in the scriptures. Here's a great link, so I don't have to go over it. www.equip.org...

Could you please give evidences for the beliefs you have stated below?

Originally posted by favouriteslave
Yes you are correct, I do believe in a creator/s.
I have read the bible, I have asked god to show me the way. I used to be christian. None of this is new to me. Ask and ye shall receive. This is what "god" showed to me....

I believe in a creator of sorts, if he is indeed the same god of the bible then he's one bad dude and I will separate my self from him. When I say creator I mean other beings from another place, dimension or time scientifically created our race of beings and placed us here. As to their purpose in creating us, I can only speculate.

I believe our creator did not act alone. We have creators......plural

I believe they gave us a basic set of rules and turned us loose

I believe that possibly our creator and what is considered god could be entirely different beings.

I believe there was disagreements between our creators on what should be done with us. Thus the story of war in heaven and the inventions of the opposing force "satan"

I believe some creators or creations may have come and gone throughout history and interfered or interacted with our race.

I believe all races have their own unique story of life and their encounters with the "gods"

I believe all religion is man made to explain what we cannot. It's spliced together with fact and fiction. They are all wrong in some sense.


I do not believe the bible is gods/creators word in it's entirety

I do not accept Jesus as the saviour

I do not believe our creators conjured us up out of dust of the earth but used DNA either from themselves or other races in the universe.

I do not believe our creators made the world in 7 days or even created earth at all.

I do not believe the story of Adam and Eve


I do not believe in sin. Sin is being human


I am not sure what happens after death, but can't wait to find out! I do not fear death

I am not sure if there is a heaven or hell but do consider that they are places in the cosmos or possibly other dimensions

I am not sure if we get another life or if we reincarnate, it's a possibility

I'm sure theres more but I'll stop there.

Originally posted by dodadoom
reply to post by favouriteslave

 

Okay, so I'll try this again without laughing this time.
Now it sounds like you believe in a "creator",
but just not in God or the bible? Is that right?
Or should I use quotes like everyone else?
Maybe that makes the point sharper.....
and the haze clearer.
You really should read the bible and ask God before
making these assumptions. IMO

[edit on 6-7-2009 by favouriteslave]