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My Only God Thread. Why, If God Is Our Father, Doent He Intervene So We Dont Die Or Suffer?

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posted on Jul, 6 2009 @ 05:39 AM
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reply to post by jfj123
 


Because an all powerful being need not be as short sighted as you. To strive is very often to suffer but it also to grow stronger/gain knowledge, as Nietzche said "That which does not kill us makes us stronger.". And put into the context that if we have an immortal soul nothing truly kills us.

Nothing worthwile is ever easy. Personally, I would find "paradise" emmensely boring.

[edit on 6-7-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]




posted on Jul, 6 2009 @ 05:46 AM
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Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by favouriteslave
 


Evil is a man made thing you see no where in nature beyond mankind.

[edit on 5-7-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]


How can evil be man made if god made everything?

Remember god has a PLAN so he has to know everything that will happen from beginning to end. He allowed for the creation of evil within his design.

God must have created evil by allowing the design for it to exist within his plan.

[edit on 6-7-2009 by jfj123]



posted on Jul, 6 2009 @ 05:49 AM
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reply to post by jfj123
 


*rolls his eyes*
Now you're just getting silly. Do you honestly think sticking to those tired old repeated lines prove your point? Or more precisely when will you start listening and stop acting like a buffoon?


[edit on 6-7-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]



posted on Jul, 6 2009 @ 05:49 AM
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Originally posted by Totakeke

Originally posted by jfj123

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by jfj123
 


If the soul never dies then what's it matter about physical death?


If it doesn't matter at all then why would god have even bothered putting us here. Did he make a mistake?

You can't have it both ways.
See I pay attention to what you say. Please also kindly do the same


There's a reason why we're here, we just don't know it. We're not all just supposed to commit suicide.


I never said that. Please re-read the post and you'll understand what I meant. If not, u2u me and I'll try explaining it a different way.
Thanks.



posted on Jul, 6 2009 @ 05:52 AM
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Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by jfj123
 


Oh no you are most certainly not paying attention.

Actually, the problem is that I'm paying too close attention and it's frustrating for you.


Otherwise you would not have asked that question. Remember where I said "We are here to learn." or something to that effect?

Yes actually I do...but that's not what you said in the post I was responding to.


I find it funny that you use the line of argument that you are using to disprove the concept you are trying to disprove though, it should be noted.

And why does "god" have to be a he?

God doesn't have to be a he/she/it, etc... But that is what I grew up with so it just comes natural to refer to god as him.



posted on Jul, 6 2009 @ 05:53 AM
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Originally posted by Totakeke
reply to post by jfj123
 


God didn't set it up that way, He set it up as a perfect paradise. But we messed it up when we disobeyed God.

I didn't mess up anything. I'm willing to bet you didn't mess up anything. So why aren't we in paradise?


We caused sin to enter the world, not God. God simply gave us a choice and we have to live with it.

I certainly did not cause sin to enter into the world.



posted on Jul, 6 2009 @ 05:55 AM
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Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by jfj123
 


Because an all powerful being need not be as short sighted as you. To strive is very often to suffer but it also to grow stronger/gain knowledge, as Nietzche said "That which does not kill us makes us stronger.". And put into the context that if we have an immortal soul nothing truly kills us.

Nothing worthwile is ever easy. Personally, I would find "paradise" emmensely boring.

[edit on 6-7-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]


We don't only learn through pain and adversity and to claim I am short sighted, you must automatically be claiming that you do know gods plan. How did you get such great inside info when nobody else has it?

Personally I could do with a little paradise. I'm tired of adversity. I've tried it and I don't like it. I've learned everything I can from it.



posted on Jul, 6 2009 @ 05:56 AM
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reply to post by jfj123
 


Actually, the problem is that I'm paying too close attention and it's frustrating for you.


Um, no. You are repeatedly spouting the same silly rhetoric regardless what is said. I imagine you think I am a Christian too.


Yes actually I do...but that's not what you said in the post I was responding to.


Yet you asked the question anyway and I said nothing contrary to what I said in that post so thusly it applies. I find no need to repeat myself for your benefit.


God doesn't have to be a he/she/it, etc... But that is what I grew up with so it just comes natural to refer to god as him.


Understandable I was being facetous anyway.



posted on Jul, 6 2009 @ 05:59 AM
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reply to post by jfj123
 




I didn't mess up anything. I'm willing to bet you didn't mess up anything. So why aren't we in paradise?


It's called "original sin", it's sin we inherited from Adam and Eve.



I certainly did not cause sin to enter into the world.


No, but you're born into sin.



posted on Jul, 6 2009 @ 06:00 AM
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reply to post by jfj123
 


We don't only learn through pain and adversity


[sarcasm] No really?? You don't say. [/sarcasm]

and to claim I am short sighted, you must automatically be claiming that you do know gods plan. How did you get such great inside info when nobody else has it?


Do you know what hyperbole means?



Personally I could do with a little paradise. I'm tired of adversity. I've tried it and I don't like it. I've learned everything I can from it.


I beg to differ.



posted on Jul, 6 2009 @ 06:12 AM
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Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by jfj123
 


*rolls his eyes*
Now you're just getting silly. Do you honestly think sticking to those tired old repeated lines prove your point? Or more precisely when will you start listening and stop acting like a buffoon?


[edit on 6-7-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]


You seem to be sticking to your tired old lines.
Sorry this seems to bother you so much.
What I've noticed is that you never REALLY answer my questions but give me the standard mantra.
There can't be good without evil
There can't be heaven without hell
etc..
But you never explain why this is the case.
I can see you believe what you say but you don't understand what you believe.
Notice how I explain my position without resulting to personal insults. You're not a very good christian



posted on Jul, 6 2009 @ 06:15 AM
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Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by jfj123
 


We don't only learn through pain and adversity


[sarcasm] No really?? You don't say. [/sarcasm]

and to claim I am short sighted, you must automatically be claiming that you do know gods plan. How did you get such great inside info when nobody else has it?


Do you know what hyperbole means?



Personally I could do with a little paradise. I'm tired of adversity. I've tried it and I don't like it. I've learned everything I can from it.


I beg to differ.



Such a shame you turned out to be such a bad christian.
You claim to know so much and I know nothing yet you are the one insulting me.
hmmmmm.
What exactly does that make YOU ?



posted on Jul, 6 2009 @ 06:18 AM
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Originally posted by Totakeke
reply to post by jfj123
 




I didn't mess up anything. I'm willing to bet you didn't mess up anything. So why aren't we in paradise?


It's called "original sin", it's sin we inherited from Adam and Eve.

Seriously think about that.
Does that make sense?
Why should I pay for something someone else did so long ago?

Do you think it would be reasonable if the police came to your house and arrested you for a crime your great, great grandfather committed?
If it's not reasonable, then why would you think a all knowing, all mighty god, would think it would be reasonable?



I certainly did not cause sin to enter into the world.



No, but you're born into sin.


Don't you see how silly that sounds?
No disrespect intended.



posted on Jul, 6 2009 @ 06:27 AM
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reply to post by jfj123
 




Seriously think about that. Does that make sense? Why should I pay for something someone else did so long ago? Do you think it would be reasonable if the police came to your house and arrested you for a crime your great, great grandfather committed? If it's not reasonable, then why would you think a all knowing, all mighty god, would think it would be reasonable?


It makes perfect sense. Besides, it's not just the original sin that we struggle with, it's regular sin, too. When Adam and Eve ate the fruit they let sin into the world. So while we're born with original sin, we also sin all throughout our lives.



Don't you see how silly that sounds? No disrespect intended.


It may sound silly to a human, but I think God knows what He's doing. I'd like to explain it better but I really can't because I'd have to know why God did what He did, and we can't know that.

[edit on 6-7-2009 by Totakeke]



posted on Jul, 6 2009 @ 06:30 AM
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Please be aware it does contain strong language view desecration is advised.





posted on Jul, 6 2009 @ 06:30 AM
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Originally posted by Totakeke
reply to post by jfj123
 



Seriously think about that. Does that make sense? Why should I pay for something someone else did so long ago? Do you think it would be reasonable if the police came to your house and arrested you for a crime your great, great grandfather committed? If it's not reasonable, then why would you think a all knowing, all mighty god, would think it would be reasonable?



It makes perfect sense. Besides, it's not just the original sin that we struggle with, it's regular sin, too. When Adam and Eve ate the fruit they let sin into the world. So while we're born with original sin, we also sin all throughout our lives.

So what you're saying is that you would not have a problem, going to jail for a crime your great, great grandfather committed?
You'd think it was fair, YES ?
Because it's the same thing.

I understand that we do commit sins from time to time that PROBABLY in the grand scheme of things, are very minor but blaming us ALL OF SIN.....simply makes no logical sense.



[edit on 6-7-2009 by jfj123]



posted on Jul, 6 2009 @ 08:36 AM
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reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
 


I am not to blame, and I refuse to be put to blame for things that quite simply went way, way out of my control. Blame is when I actually do something, and I get a result. Blame doesn't work when I try to do something, and get an exact opposite result, no matter how or what I try to get the result that's needed. IE- if I put my hand on a hot burner, I am to blame for scorching my hand. If I have someone who grabs me, overpowers me, and puts my hand on it- there cannot be blame on my part.

Got it? Good.



[edit on 6-7-2009 by wylekat]



posted on Jul, 6 2009 @ 08:47 AM
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reply to post by jfj123
 




So what you're saying is that you would not have a problem, going to jail for a crime your great, great grandfather committed? You'd think it was fair, YES ?


Perhaps I should've explained it a little better (I'm always learning as a Christian). Being born with original sin just means being born sinful in nature. As hard as we try not to sin we all will at one point.



posted on Jul, 6 2009 @ 10:43 AM
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It probably would have been a good idea not to tell Adam and Eve about the Tree of Knowledge and good and evil. If they wouldn't have known then it wouldn't have been a sin right? OR maybe he should have never put those trees in the garden since he already knew they would take a bite. Could have saved him, Jesus and a whole bunch from dying.


But he DID tell them about the trees, tempting them, ultimately knowing what would happen. He didn't want them to have "knowledge" why on earth not? Did he want us to be stupid and controllable forever? It's all a made up myth, some type of metaphor. It's not to be taken literally and then used as a major point in religion to explain why we must all bow down to the christ. He wanted control, he go it.




Originally posted by Totakeke
reply to post by jfj123
 


God didn't set it up that way, He set it up as a perfect paradise. But we messed it up when we disobeyed God. We caused sin to enter the world, not God. God simply gave us a choice and we have to live with it.



posted on Jul, 6 2009 @ 10:53 AM
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The real 'shame' is that you grew up Catholic, not to say Catholic is 'bad' per se, but as a Catholic you have ZERO relationship with God..when i say that i mean to say you dont seek to form a relationship with him/it...it's all service and Mass.

Having said that....ill answer your question:

First, you should be embarrassed that you'd even have to ask this question as the basis of Christianity is Faith. Faith simply means that we must put our belief in something not readily proven or seen, rather felt and sought.

The reason 'He/It" does NOT intervene is the very point of the exercise...faith.

Also, remember that if you believe in Christ then you must also believe in Heaven..if you belive in Heaven wouldn't it stand to reason that heaven is a faaaar better place than here? wouldn't it make sense that to DIE HERE is almost a favor as we ALL suffer HERE..and that God sees that to GO to Heaven you'll be better off?...that's your answer.....why doesn't he get invloved? because Heaven is a better place to be anyway!

Pretty simple to figure out...see you're getting stuck on the time we have here and that being the most important...it isn't, its just temporary.



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