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My Only God Thread. Why, If God Is Our Father, Doent He Intervene So We Dont Die Or Suffer?

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posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 04:37 PM
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Originally posted by dgtempe
Thank you for your replies.

I have respect for the God i grew up beileiving in, but now, i say, why, why is he not here when we need him? I cant believe that fairy tale of Eve and the apple. Sorry.

We are flawed. Which means God is flawed. A huge big book called the bible, full of threats, is that a compassionate God???

We either worship him or we have a horrible end?????

I'm seriously confused.


Actually, you don't seem confused at all. You're one of the few that actually gets it.
But watch out... believers tend to want to chew people up when they see them using their minds to control their lives instead of fairy tales and fear.




posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 04:45 PM
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Originally posted by nomorecruelty

When things are going good and there is no pain or no suffering, are we learning any lessons?

Of course not.

Mankind expects the world and life to be perfect - with no heartaches or hurt. But if we lived in such a world, what would be the purpose of that world - if everything was 'perfect' with no problems.

God allows suffering and hurt so that we turn to Him for guidance and comfort. Mankind has it in his head that we don't need God when things are going 'good'. The bad times are what humbles us, weakens us and causes us to be dependent on God - which is what He wants from us.

The people who choose not to believe in God are discussed in the Bible, and warned in the Bible - of the consequences of not believing. So choose your own destiny, my friends - but choose wisely.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to look back over this planet's history to see just how far mankind has distanced himself from God. We have grown further and further away from God with each passing generation.

Mankind has changed over that history - changing God's laws to suit his own agenda - even changing God's scriptures to better suit what he wants in his life. Over the course of that history, God and His original scriptures have never changed one iota. The changes have been the result of mankind - not God.

The ones that say they don't need God or don't believe in a God is only proof that satan has many, many people fooled.

The Bible makes it clear that the majority will not make it through Heaven's narrow gate - don't let pride condemn you to hell.







that is extremely ethnocentric view and interpretation of the world.
some do far better with positive reenforcement than a negative one. any child educator can tell you that.

to say suffering causes people to seek god and appreciate happiness is no where close to reality, because most people who suffer too much for too long are higly cynical, and have poor attitude in general.

of course not everyone would fall into that, some will rise to the top in every occasion, some will fall. it has nothing to do with faith in god or one's behavior, but rather it has far more to do with the genes you are given. high EQ and IQ combo will allow that particular individual to respond better through adversity, whereas less intelligent person with less capability to handle such adversity would surely fail. in some circumstances, the complete opposite will be true. if you ever have been involved in any type of animal research, it is absolutely clear that one genenral rule does not apply to any large population of any species.

all adversity = character building test by god... is a complete fallacy.



posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 05:12 PM
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reply to post by jfj123
 


Largely because you have already decided what is possible and what a such a being should do should it exist. And only listen to arguments across those lines. Also with the standard "Humans should be first!" type mentality a great deal of atheistic and theistic individuals seem to enjoy deluding themselves into believing.



posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 05:12 PM
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reply to post by symmetricAvenger
 


And can be intrepreted any number of ways...
As has been shown.

[edit on 8-7-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]



posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 05:57 PM
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Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by jfj123
 


Largely because you have already decided what is possible

Don't you eve get tired of being wrong all the time???? I never said that. I even admitted that I could be wrong about everything and am simply ASKING QUESTIONS.


and what a such a being should do should it exist.

Yes, I'm using BASIC logic and throwing in a splash or COMPASSION. But of course god isn't logical or compassionate right?


And only listen to arguments across those lines.

Actually I read all arguments. You just don't like my responses because I don't agree with you
awwwww



Also with the standard "Humans should be first!" type mentality a great deal of atheistic and theistic individuals seem to enjoy deluding themselves into believing.


1. Humans and god are what we're talking about.
2. Who's in line? If we think humans are first, who's 2nd, 3rd, etc... ?


[edit on 8-7-2009 by jfj123]



posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 08:08 PM
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God created the Earth, the Universe and all life.

Mankind decides to change laws and morals to suit his/her own agenda.


Now mankind expects to be handed a problem free life on a silver platter as some kind of reward?


Incredible.




posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 08:11 PM
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Originally posted by nomorecruelty
God created the Earth, the Universe and all life.

Mankind decides to change laws and morals to suit his/her own agenda.


Now mankind expects to be handed a problem free life on a silver platter as some kind of reward?


Incredible.



No but we should expect COMPASSION.
Innocent people are suffering including newborn babies and children who have no ideas of changing laws and morals to suit their needs. So frankly, YES, we expect those people to be treated with COMPASSION by a god that DESIGNED us in his image.

If you were god, would you turn your back on innocents that were suffering? If you wouldn't, that makes you better then god
If you would, that makes you cruel. So which do you pick?



posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 08:12 PM
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Just a small fyi - mankind wasn't put here to do as he wants with who he wants and when he wants. There is a thing called 'accountability' that each and every one of us will have to go through - probably sooner than any of us think.

Life wasn't ever meant to be some sort of free for all where we just exist to live and live to exist. God placed each of us here for a specific purpose in our lives.

And greed, vanity and pride aren't a part of it.

satan must be dancing a jig on hot coals over this generation of peeps.




posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 08:15 PM
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That is a dubious statement. First you have to prove god exists, and no one has evidence (solid, tangible) for his existence. All arguments fail if you cannot produce such proof.



Originally posted by nomorecruelty
God created the Earth, the Universe and all life.

Mankind decides to change laws and morals to suit his/her own agenda.


Now mankind expects to be handed a problem free life on a silver platter as some kind of reward?


Incredible.




posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 08:18 PM
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reply to post by Angus123
 





"God allows suffering and hurt so that we turn to Him for guidance and comfort." Man... that's pretty sadistic. That's like a parent abusing his children so he can then have the pleasure of comforting them. Yikes!

I had parents like that- it's why again and again, I call it out and out abuse when this is pointed out to me... No one listens. Thanks for actually confirming what I have been shouting about for a long, long time.



posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 08:19 PM
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reply to post by curiousaboutsky
 





to say suffering causes people to seek god and appreciate happiness is no where close to reality, because most people who suffer too much for too long are higly cynical, and have poor attitude in general.


Hi! You been spying on me?:p



high EQ and IQ combo will allow that particular individual to respond better through adversity, whereas less intelligent person with less capability to handle such adversity would surely fail.


What you didn't point out is after a while, EQ and IQ don't matter- crap keeps getting thrown at you nonstop, ANYONE succumbs to the effects. It's like taking someone and constantly taking their money, their food, and kicking them in the ankles- and telling them to walk 40 miles without food, water and throbbing legs. With promises of a full course meal, all the water they can drink, and relaxation... only to have them find out they have another 40 miles, and another, and another....

[edit on 8-7-2009 by wylekat]



posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 08:23 PM
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I have a friend who just lost her brother - he was 36 and suffered a brain aneurysm. She asked me why God took him. I told her that God sometimes takes the "innocent" ones to get the attention of someone else close to that particular person. A sister or parent, etc. My friend has not received, nor has even tried, for her salvation from Jesus. That was my first guess on why her brother was taken so young.

Jesus Himself was nailed to and crucified on a cross - in order for us (mankind) to receive salvation. He was also an innocent victim - but chose to pay the price for us.

Bottom line, we are all God's children - and He can choose to bring us home in any fashion He chooses, and when He chooses.

But mankind has allowed satan into his mind - so that evil is now prevailing. These end days are God's test - He is weeding out the evil from the good.

What confuses me I guess is that God is like our earthly fathers - they are here to protect and to discipline. Yet no one seems outraged at fathers, or mothers, when they have to spank their children, or put them in timeout, etc.

What makes God so different that mankind seems to want to hold God accountable for disciplining of His children.

A coach chooses players for his team. He makes the rules. The players have to abide by his rules.

Do you see sports players rebelling against coaches for rules or restrictions?

Pride is going to be the direct downfall of many a person.




posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 08:27 PM
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Originally posted by nomorecruelty
God created the Earth, the Universe and all life.

Mankind decides to change laws and morals to suit his/her own agenda.


Now mankind expects to be handed a problem free life on a silver platter as some kind of reward?


Incredible.



pardon me that I am a complete 100% atheist. I grew up presbyterian, was baptized, went to sunday school, even was offered a scholarship for a seminary school. but even after going through my teens as a "born again" christian, the high school youth leader, the church band leader, so on and so forth, i could never deny the scientific facts against it because it made sense. my curiosity overcame the fear of losing my religion, and when to college as a biology major, chemistry minor. i eventually lost all faith sometime before i went to grad school.

you have given a snobbish reply to my post, yet you did not answer my questions nor you provided any real info to debate rationally.

please lets not start an embarrassing screaming match of "I'm right, because I said so" but rather, please debate like grown up rational, intelligent beings that we are.

so, here it is again.

how does suffering on earth cast a light on "happiness" when the eternal happiness is promised in heaven where there is no suffering? your argument so far is illogical, because you are basically saying

1) suffering exist for us to appreciate, and identify happiness

2) despite your pain and suffering, keep your faith and stay a good person (which I am highly confused of what a 'good person' is, because i have met some of the most wonderful people who are buddhist, hindu, or even the dreaded "islam") so you will be given the entrance to heaven

3) you want to be in heaven, where happiness is unilateral and eternal, because the alternative is hell, where pain and suffering is exclusively provided for you infinitely.

now then, how does a divine logic of 'through suffering, we can appreciate happiness' exactly work in heaven, where there is no suffering to cast a shadow to identify happiness?

please be logical.



posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 08:27 PM
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reply to post by nomorecruelty
 





Yet no one seems outraged at fathers, or mothers, when they have to spank their children, or put them in timeout, etc.


Hardly anyone's fathers and mothers kill their child's siblings, inflict disease, heartbreak, financial ruin, and so screw up a person's life that said parent ends up running for their lives because the kid's gonna put a bullet thru their head!

Your God is one sadistic SOB. I should know. I have been put thru abuse all my life.



posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 08:27 PM
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reply to post by favouriteslave
 


He doesn't exist for *you* perhaps - but that is your choice, my friend.

As I've always said, make sure you can live with your choice, and die with your choice. You're talking about your eternal salvation, after all.



posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 08:31 PM
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reply to post by curiousaboutsky
 


The suffering going on today isn't from God - it's from satan. God allows, and uses, suffering for His benefit - not in a "sadistic" way either.

I can't sit here and convince you that God exists - that is up to *you* to decide. God works differently in everyone's life. But if you chose to denounce your faith in God, then, in my opinion, you allowed satan to get the upper hand in your mind and life.



posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 08:32 PM
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There is no God, its that simple

I am reminded of the words of David Attenborough- he gets no end of hate mail from Christians- and is invariably asked by them why he doesn't credit God in his doco's- he says they always say stuff like 'how can you look at at a Humming bird and say there is no God'- he says they always mention the 'beautiful' things like the Humming bird, to which he answers ' there is a worm in Africa and the ONLY way it can live is to bury itself into a human eyeball- I have trouble reconciling that with a caring and benevolent creator'

How true.

'God' is a man made concept to make ourselves feel better- that someone is in charge of this mess and will save us

The Bible is a total crock, not only is Christianity plagurised, it makes zero sense.

Take the 'great flood'- there was no great flood, if anything there was localised flooding around that time and place but thats not what the Bible tells us- it tells us the whole earth went under- there is no way that happened and the theory is easily proven wrong-

And surprise surprise no ark to be seen



posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 08:35 PM
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reply to post by wylekat
 


The Bible instructs us to put God first over our parents. I could sit here and tell you horror stories, current ones even, that I have endured at the hands of my parents. An abusive childhood/adulthood isn't grounds to denounce God though. Everyone, parents included, are susceptible to the evils of satan. I continue to pray that God will remove the evil from my parents' minds.

You should read the Book of Job in the Bible - if you want to read about someone that endured trial after trial after trial. Yet he never lost his faith in God.



posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 08:38 PM
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As I've always said, make sure you can live with your choice, and die with your choice. You're talking about your eternal salvation, after all.

LOL


And we always get back to this- you're going to hell my friend! no heaven for you!!

There is no more clarity after death than here on Earth when you are alive, what clarity you have here is what you get there -all these people waiting for their time in heaven will be sorely disappointed- the little man with the long sheet of paper- all bs- designed to scare the crap out of you and into religion where you are controlled and manipulated



posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 08:39 PM
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reply to post by nomorecruelty
 


Yeah- I read "God goes to Vegas". "Because God can" is the ranting of a child. a SPOILED one.



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