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Originally posted by Skelkie3
Originally posted by neformore
reply to post by Skelkie3
Well thank you for your critique of my post.
If you'd read the next link I provided, you would have seen that I went on and produced a more conservative estimate. But no. You didn't.
Because it didn't suit your argument. Thats life I guess.
WHen you get down to it, to brass tacks as they say where I come from, heres what it all boils down to.
The Nazi's exterminated, using industrial killing methods, millions of people. I don't know the exact number. Neither do you. I suspect no one will ever really know it.
I do know this.
No one denies the deaths of the homosexuals
No one denies the deaths of the romanies
No one denies the deaths of the mentally handicapped and infirm
No one denies the deaths of the poles
No one denies the deaths of the russian prisoners of war
People only deny the deaths of the jews.
They question the numbers, they say it was "exaggerated". Some claim the whole thing was a hoax. The single, consistent point and argument presented is always linked to the jews.
Not to anyone else. Just to the jews.
No one questions the amount of dead allied soldiers and civilians in WW2.
No one questions the amount dead axis soldiers and civilians in WW2.
No one argues that the methods of recording those deaths is flawed.
The only time things are supposedly innacurate is when it comes to the figures relating to jews.
No one argues the historical events of D-Day.
No one argues the events of the Battle of Britain.
No one argues about the events of Stalingrad.
No one argues about the events in North Africa.
Witness testimony, allied reports, survior reports, they're all fine for those things.
And yet when it comes to the reports about the camp liberation, when it comes to the reports from the survivors, when it comes to the testimony of soldiers who had fought all the way across Europe and experienced the absolute horrors of war, only to find that what they thought was the absolute base barbarity of humanity could sink to even deeper depths - those reports are unreliable. They aren't true. They are exaggerated. The Nazi's own records, the confessions of the guards at the camps, all apparently seem to be considered lies.
Why? Why is everything else ok, but mention the holocaust and suddenly every accepted method of evidence gathering is wrong?
Can you answer that without using the word jew?
Yes it's true that of the several numerical options you present as ' fact ' I didn't get beyond the second. I apologize for my shallowness.
I wish I could say that I don't care how many or what number - but, these numbers represent people who are gone and over with prematurely.
This is particularly sad for me because I am an Athiest , and I don't believe these people are hanging out beyond the pearly gates with their loved ones... they're just gone.
How dare anyone do this to one or six million or sixteen million people ?
But, I believe that these shrines in our hearts and in the cemetaries are lessened when they have the wrong names on them, or improper info in general.
There are controversies surrounding atrocities in too many places where a bunch of nuts think that others are somehow cheaper than themselves.
One group that consistantly expresses this belief through word and action are among us now ! And the reason that these discussions are usually controversial, is that we all see this WRONG but most have been programmed to ignore it or at least overlook it. It's a natural for conflict.
People will struggle to wake up, and fight to go back to sleep, I guess.
A question still bothers me, and no one will ever answer unless they hate the people we are discussing : why do people hate them so ?
And why would the people who were ( arguably ) the most logical people in history, do these terrible things ?
[edit on 27/6/09 by neformore]
Originally posted by walsbg22 Guys, can you tell me when Jews have used the holocaust for sympathy or to get something. I'd like a video or quote from good source because I've never seen this used.
The State of Israel is Created
The end of World War II led to the rapid disappearance of French and British influence throughout the Arab world, as the rapid eclipse of the old imperial powers transformed the politics not only of Asia but of the Middle East and Africa as well. The mandated territories granted by the League of Nations after World War I were granted independence. These included Syria and Jordan in 1946 and Lebanon in 1943. The mandate in Palestine was liquidated, and a Jewish homeland -- promised after World War I but never granted -- was created in 1948: the State of Israel.
Don't expect any Hollywood films highlighting any of these massacres: 1. King David Hotel, July 22, 1946. 2. Sharafat, Feb. 7, 1951. 3. Deir Yassin, April 10, 1948. 4. Falameh, April 2, 1951. 5. Naseruddine, April 14, 1948. 6. Quibya, Oct. 14, 1953. 7. Carmel, April 20, 1948. 8. Nahalin, March, 28, 1954. 9. Al-Qabu, May 1, 1948. 10. Gaza, Feb. 28, 1955. 11. Beit Kiras, May 3, 1948. 12. Khan Yunis, May 31, 1955. 13. Beitkhoury, May 5, 1948. 14. Khan Yunis Again, Aug. 31, 1955 15. Az-Zaytoun, May 6, 1948. 16. Tiberia, Dec. 11, 1955. 17. Wadi Araba, May 13, 1950. 18. As-Sabha, Nov. 2, 1955. 19. Gaza Again, April 5, 1956. 20. Houssan, Sept. 25, 1956. 21. Rafa, Aug. 16, 1956. 22. Qalqilyah, Oct. 10, 1956. 23. Ar-Rahwa, Sept. 12, 1956. 24. Kahr Kassem, Oct. 29, 1956. 25. Gharandal, Sept. 13, 1956. 26. Gaza Strip, Nov. 1956. 26. Gaza Strip, Nov. 1956.
The Daily Express (London) published an article on March 24, 1933 announcing that the Jews had already launched their boycott against Germany and described a forthcoming "holy war". The Express urged Jews everywhere to boycott German goods and demonstrate against German economic interests. The Express said that Germany was "now confronted with an international boycott of its trade, its finances, and its industry....In London, New York, Paris and Warsaw, Jewish businessmen are united to go on an economic crusade."
Originally posted by pacific_waters
I can't believe the garbage that passes for discussion on these forums. Hitler's plans were to provide lebensraum for "aryan" population expansion at the expense of slavs and any other none "aryans". The jewish population of europe was to be exterminated. Initially Jews were to be deported but there was no place to deport them to. Subsequent invasions of neighboring countries placed large jewish populations in nazi hands. The solution was the establishment of stalags throughout the german occupation zones. The idea that mass executions did not take place is ludicrous. Those who were not able to provide service were slaughtered. It took a while to arrive at gas chambers but arrive the germans did. Of course other ethnic groups were destined for slaughter as well. Slavs were to be provide labor until the "aryan" population in the conquered nations were sufficient to be self sustaining. Gypsies, homosexuals, eventually slavs and anyone not meeting the criteria set out by german pseudo scientists were destined for extermination.
reply to post by A Conscience
Personally, I don't deny the holocaust took place. As with some, I suspect it may have been exaggerated.
The Germans took them in after Russia kicked them out, then the Jews turned against Germany during WW1.
Originally posted by KRISKALI777
But dont deny the Holocaust.
You may just get thrown in Gaol, or have your career all but ruined- like Mel Gibson.
Originally posted by THX-1138
and ate your grandmother's corpse.
Originally posted by neformore
Trying to judge laws outlawing the Nazi party immediately after WW2 by todays standards is an exercise in ignorant arrogance in my opinion. I highly doubt it any of us contributing to this argument were there at the time, and none of us are in a position to judge the mindset.