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Originally posted by ZeroKnowledge
reply to post by Ludde
I have not turned anything into anything. I claim that there was systematic,planned extermination of Jews by Nazi Germany. And victors do wright history, there is however a certain limitation to what one could write.
Britain cannot remove Dresden bombing. USA cannot remove Hiroshima and Nagasaki,Soviet Union cannot remove Katyn. Nazi apologists, even if they would win, would not be able to write off their crimes.
You want independent info - well here is Polish census, by Poles, in their independent country with no Jews in charge in 1931. It states approximetly 3000000 Jews and approximetly 21 million Poles. There is Soviet census from 1926 that has 2.6 million Jews and 78 million Russians.
Polish census (2002 - there are earlier ones but you as not lazy can clearly do something positive and find the info): 38 million, 1500 Jews. Big drop , ah? All paid for German nationality in WW2? All went to Israel that had 700000 Jews in 1948?
Soviet census (1959) 3 million Jews and 99 millions Russians.
As for whining - prove me wrong. You are clearly trying to provocate me while providing no real info beside insults. So try to bring something positive, will you. Explain to lazy discredited whiner me why :
WW2 was tragedy for Polish people. And yet today there are more then before WW2. Not so to Polish Jews. So maybe you can provide an explanation?
się 22 140 tys. mieszkańców, w tym 10 568 tys. na terenach włączonych do Rzeszy (według języka ojczystego 9 221 tys. Polaków, 653 tys. Niemców i 582 tys. Żydów), 11 542 tys. na terenach utworzonego Generalnego Gubernatorstwa (9 863 tys. Polaków, 1 225 tys. Żydów, 357 tys
Originally posted by neformore
The lack of histprical accuracy, and the ignorance on display in this thread is, frankly, almost as disgusting as the act of trying to deny a genocide. Almost.
So, Heres a history lesson
Heres some maths on the subject
And here is the reality of holocaust denial, in my opinion
The evidence is there. From survivor eye witness reports, through to the Nazi's own records. Holocaust denial relies on ignorance to feed itself.
Don't feed it.
Originally posted by Sheeper
Your comparison with Cambodia stinks. Sicko.
[edit on 27-6-2009 by Sheeper]
Originally posted by ufonautradio
It's a shame that this thread of hate is still up on ATS. I'll give it about another few hours and if it's not taken down, I will no longer be a part of the ATS community.
This entire thread is so antisemitic, it's not even worth responding to the actual content.
Without doubt the most important contribution to a truthful study of the extermination question has been the work of the French historian, Professor Paul Rassinier. The pre-eminent value of this work lies firstly in the fact that Rassinier actually experienced life in the German concentration camps, and also that, as a Socialist intellectual and anti-Nazi, nobody could be less inclined to defend Hitler and National Socialism. Yet, for the sake of justice and historical truth, Rassinier spent the remainder of his post-war years until his death in 1966 pursuing research which utterly refuted the Myth of the Six Million and the legend of Nazi diabolism. From 1933 until 1943, Rassinier was a professor of history in the College d'enseignement général at Belfort, Academie de Besancon. During the war he engaged in resistance activity until he was arrested by the Gestapo on October 30th, 1943, and as a result was confined in the German concentration camps at Buchenwald and Dora until 1945. At Buchenwald, towards the end of the war, he contracted typhus, which so damaged his health that he could not resume his teaching. After the war, Rassinier was awarded the Medaille de la Résistance and the Reconnaisance Francaise, and was elected to the French Chamber of Deputies, from which he was ousted by the Communists in November, 1946. Rassinier then embarked on his great work, a systematic analysis of alleged German war atrocities, in particular the supposed "extermination" of the Jews. Not surprisingly, his writings are little known; they have rarely been translated from the French and none at all have appeared in English. His most important works were: Le Mensonge d'Ulysse (The Lies of Odysseus, Paris, 1949), an investigation of concentration camp conditions based on his own experiences of them; and Ulysse trahi par les Siens (1960), a sequel which further refuted the impostures of propagandists concerning German concentration camps. His monumental task was completed with two final volumes, Le Véritable Proces Eichmann (1962) and Le Drame des Juifs européen (1964), in which Rassinier exposes the dishonest and reckless distortions concerning the fate of the Jews by a careful statistical analysis. The last work also examines the political and financial significance of the extermination legend and its exploitation by Israel and the Communist powers. One of the many merits of Rassinier's work is exploding the myth of unique German "wickedness"; and he reveals with devastating force how historical truth has been obliterated in an impenetrable fog of partisan propaganda. His researches demonstrate conclusively that the fate of the Jews during World War Two, once freed from distortion and reduced to proper proportions, loses its much vaunted "enormity" and is seen to be only one act in a greater and much wider tragedy. In an extensive lecture tour in West Germany in the spring of 1960, Professor Rassinier emphasised to his German audiences that it was high time for a rebirth of the truth regarding the extermination legend, and that the Germans themselves should begin it since the allegation remained a wholly unjustifiable blot on Germany in the eyes of the world.
Here we may briefly summarise the data on Jewish war- time casualties. Contrary to the figure of over 9 million Jews in German- occupied territory put forward at the Nuremberg and Eichmann trials, it has already been estabhshed that after extensive emigration, approximately 3 million were living in Europe, excluding the Soviet Union. Even when the Jews of German-occupied Russia are included (the majority of Russian Jews were evacuated beyond German control), the overall number probably does not exceed four million. Himmler's statistician, Dr. Richard Korherr and the World Centre of Contemporary Jewish Documentation put the number respectively at 5,550,000 and 5,294,000 when German- occupied territory was at its widest, but both these figures include the two million Jews of the Baltic and western Russia without paying any attention to the large number of these who were evacuated. However, it is at least an admission from the latter organisation that there were not even six million Jews in Europe and western Russia combined. Nothing better illustrates the declining plausibility of the Six Million legend than the fact that the prosecution at the Eichmann trial deliberately avoided mentioning the figure. Moreover, official Jewish estimates of the casualties are being quietly revised downwards. Our analysis of the population and emigration statistics, as well as the studies by the Swiss Baseler Nachrichten and Professor Rassinier, demonstrate that it would have been simply impossible for the number of Jewish casualties to have exceeded a limit of one and a half million. It is very significant, therefore, that the World Centre of Contemporary Jewish Documentation in Paris now states that only 1,485,292 Jews died from all causes during the Second World War, and although this figure is certainly too high, at least it bears no resemblance at all to the legendary Six Million. As has been noted earlier, the Jewish statistician Raul Hilberg estimates an even lower figure of 896,892. This is beginning to approach a realistic figure, and the process of revision is certain to continue. Doubtless, several thousand Jewish persons did die in the course of the Second World War, but this must be seen in the context of a war that cost many millions of innocent victims on all sides. To put the matter in perspective, for example, we may point out that 700,000 Russian civilians died during the siege of Leningrad, and a total of 2,05O,OOO German civilians were killed in Allied air raids and forced repatriation after the war. In 1955, another neutral Swiss source, Die Tat of Zurich (January 19th, 1955), in a survey of all Second World War casualties based on figures of the lnternational Red Cross, put the "Loss of victims of persecution because of politics, race or religion who died in prisons and concentration camps between 1939 and 1945" at 300,000, not all of whom were Jews, and this figure seems the most accurate assessment.
His most important works were: Le Mensonge d'Ulysse (The Lies of Odysseus, Paris, 1949), an investigation of concentration camp conditions based on his own experiences of them; and Ulysse trahi par les Siens (1960), a sequel which further refuted the impostures of propagandists concerning German concentration camps. His monumental task was completed with two final volumes, Le Véritable Proces Eichmann (1962) and Le Drame des Juifs européen (1964), in which Rassinier exposes the dishonest and reckless distortions concerning the fate of the Jews by a careful statistical analysis. The last work also examines the political and financial significance of the extermination legend and its exploitation by Israel and the Communist powers.
Originally posted by neformore
No one denies the deaths of the homosexuals
No one denies the deaths of the romanies
No one denies the deaths of the mentally handicapped and infirm
No one denies the deaths of the poles
No one denies the deaths of the russian prisoners of war
People only deny the deaths of the jews.
They question the numbers, they say it was "exaggerated". Some claim the whole thing was a hoax. The single, consistent point and argument presented is always linked to the jews.
Originally posted by Studenofhistory
Then I came across the links below. It was an eye-opening revelation to say the least.
The first link was the clincher for me. And yes I realize that it's posted on Radio Islam website but that by itself doesn't mean it isn't true. I've also independently verified the historical data quoted in that article and the numbers do in fact add up. The bottom line is that 6 million jews could not possibly have died in concentration camps. A realistic number is not more than 1.5 million but could be as low as 300,000. When this lower number is examined more carefully, it becomes more and more clear that the jews who did die, died not because of gas chambers but rather because of a variety of reasons such as disease (typhus was common) or starvation due to destruction of transportation infrastructure by allied bombing.
There is very considerable evidence that the Nazi SS used concentration camps as a supply of slave labour for the production of weapons like the V-2 rockets, ME-262 fighters. etc. Therefore it makes more sense to keep the workers alive as long as possible. Now I'm not saying that concentration camp inmates were well treated. Clearly they were not. Living conditions were appalling. But as bad as that is, it's a far cry from the massive, systematic extermination that the holocaust myth has perpetuated.
That the Nazis were a brutal regime is beyond question. But the German people should not be vilified for millions of deaths that never happened.