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The Germans had an extraordinary propensity for recording everything on paper in the most careful detail, yet among the thousands of captured documents of the S.D. and Gestapo, the records of the Reich Security Head Office, the files of Himmler's headquarters and Hitler's own war directives there is not a single order for the extermination of Jews or anyone else. It will be seen later that this has, in fact, been admitted by the World Centre of Contemporary Jewish Documentation at Tel-Aviv.
Originally posted by neformore
reply to post by Skelkie3
Well thank you for your critique of my post.
If you'd read the next link I provided, you would have seen that I went on and produced a more conservative estimate. But no. You didn't.
Because it didn't suit your argument. Thats life I guess.
WHen you get down to it, to brass tacks as they say where I come from, heres what it all boils down to.
The Nazi's exterminated, using industrial killing methods, millions of people. I don't know the exact number. Neither do you. I suspect no one will ever really know it.
I do know this.
No one denies the deaths of the homosexuals
No one denies the deaths of the romanies
No one denies the deaths of the mentally handicapped and infirm
No one denies the deaths of the poles
No one denies the deaths of the russian prisoners of war
People only deny the deaths of the jews.
They question the numbers, they say it was "exaggerated". Some claim the whole thing was a hoax. The single, consistent point and argument presented is always linked to the jews.
Not to anyone else. Just to the jews.
No one questions the amount of dead allied soldiers and civilians in WW2.
No one questions the amount dead axis soldiers and civilians in WW2.
No one argues that the methods of recording those deaths is flawed.
The only time things are supposedly innacurate is when it comes to the figures relating to jews.
No one argues the historical events of D-Day.
No one argues the events of the Battle of Britain.
No one argues about the events of Stalingrad.
No one argues about the events in North Africa.
Witness testimony, allied reports, survior reports, they're all fine for those things.
And yet when it comes to the reports about the camp liberation, when it comes to the reports from the survivors, when it comes to the testimony of soldiers who had fought all the way across Europe and experienced the absolute horrors of war, only to find that what they thought was the absolute base barbarity of humanity could sink to even deeper depths - those reports are unreliable. They aren't true. They are exaggerated. The Nazi's own records, the confessions of the guards at the camps, all apparently seem to be considered lies.
Why? Why is everything else ok, but mention the holocaust and suddenly every accepted method of evidence gathering is wrong?
Can you answer that without using the word jew?
Yes it's true that of the several numerical options you present as ' fact ' I didn't get beyond the second. I apologize for my shallowness.
I wish I could say that I don't care how many or what number - but, these numbers represent people who are gone and over with prematurely.
This is particularly sad for me because I am an Athiest , and I don't believe these people are hanging out beyond the pearly gates with their loved ones... they're just gone.
How dare anyone do this to one or six million or sixteen million people ?
But, I believe that these shrines in our hearts and in the cemetaries are lessened when they have the wrong names on them, or improper info in general.
There are controversies surrounding atrocities in too many places where a bunch of nuts think that others are somehow cheaper than themselves.
One group that consistantly expresses this belief through word and action are among us now ! And the reason that these discussions are usually controversial, is that we all see this WRONG but most have been programmed to ignore it or at least overlook it. It's a natural for conflict.
People will struggle to wake up, and fight to go back to sleep, I guess.
A question still bothers me, and no one will ever answer unless they hate the people we are discussing : why do people hate them so ?
And why would the people who were ( arguably ) the most logical people in history, do these terrible things ?
[edit on 27/6/09 by neformore]
Originally posted by ravenshadow13
The Zionist movement has been defunct for ages. Yet people keep using that word as another way to blame the Jews for political upheaval.