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Denial Of The Holocaust

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posted on Jun, 29 2009 @ 04:42 AM
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Originally posted by bigyin The Jews seem to have no idea how pityful they sound as they protest about the documented facts of the holocaust.

Compare it with the more than documented facts, even video evidence of the holocaust they created in Gaza and they are denying it happened.

Should it not be a crime to deny the holocaust in Gaza ?

If it were most Jews should now be in jail.


FRIGGING HELL!

The world's press and I must have missed the building of extermination camps and their gas chambers in Gaza.

The world's press and I must have missed the rounding up of millions of Arab men, women and children.

The world's press and I must have missed all the trains going to the death camps.

What Holocaust are you talking about?




posted on Jun, 29 2009 @ 04:46 AM
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reply to post by bigyin
 


Please tell me more Bigyin!!!!
this is VERY interesting; and mind you I am not being sarcastic!!!



posted on Jun, 29 2009 @ 04:49 AM
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Originally posted by KRISKALI777 reply to post by KRISKALI777
 


Hi ATSers, heres is a factual article to add food for thought.....There are many examples of this, this being only one. Makes me wonder.............



Ah yes!

More Scottish propaganda against free thinking Englishmen.

The sooner the Scotts are kicked out of power, the happier every Englishman will be.

I have the BNP's Manifesto booklet in colour.

It makes very good reading - especially the bit about eliminating the Barnett Formulae.

No wonder the Scotts and others are sniping at the BNP.



posted on Jun, 29 2009 @ 04:53 AM
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reply to post by eniac
 





People only deny the deaths of the jews. They question the numbers, they say it was "exaggerated". Some claim the whole thing was a hoax. The single, consistent point and argument presented is always linked to the jews. Not to anyone else. Just to the jews.


Ohhh my gosh.
When you guys are finished feeling sorry for yourselves/your cause we maybe can move on.
I don't know who said there were no Jews killed in WWII (wasn't me!). Of coarse there were; only not as specific to Jews as they would like to think.

I know they have a hard time accepting that they aren't really 'Gods' chosen people and that they were the only ones vilified in the war.

I tell you my Grandfather and great Uncle didn't serve because some German was vilifying a foreign religion



posted on Jun, 29 2009 @ 04:54 AM
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Originally posted by fritz
What Holocaust are you talking about?


although the language of holocaust is volatile, there is a valid reason to feel that the aggressive expansionist policy of the isrealis as well as the restrictions imposed upon palestinian arabs is a form of ethnic cleansing.



posted on Jun, 29 2009 @ 05:00 AM
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reply to post by fapython[/url]

It's called reparation, my friend.

Germany was made to pay vast somes of money to [notably] France and Belgium after WWI, under the treaty of Versailles.

This was one of the reasons that a certin Adolf Hitler came to power and promised the German people that Germany would be great again.

After WWII, the Germans did indeed pay billions of marks in reparation for what their country did to most of Europe between 1937 and 1945.

To put a modern spin on things, Iraq has to pay millions of dollars to Kuwait for the invasion of and the occupation of that country.

So please, if you are going to post facts, at least try to get them half right.



posted on Jun, 29 2009 @ 05:22 AM
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reply to post by fritz
 


hmmm. Madagascar was looking good. Yet the interests in America knew the needed an inital foothold in the middle-east.
What better way to do that than declare Israel where it had NEVER been before; in the middle of Palestine!!!

Israel is nothing but a sham state, allowed by the west to have a foothold in this sector, with the aim of further conquest.



posted on Jun, 29 2009 @ 07:04 AM
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reply to post by KRISKALI777[/url]

I am sorry, but you do not seem to have a grasp on the realities of world history.

For that reason and your continued ranting about the state of Israel, I have decided, albeit reluctantly, to press my 'Ignore' button.



posted on Jun, 29 2009 @ 07:22 AM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


reply to post by KRISKALI777
 


The interesting thing I've observed is, that you are making it all about the Jews, and continue to do so.

Your OP was about jews. Most of the posts in this thread have been about jews.

You seem to have a very very large chip on your shoulder about jewish people.

Now I'm not accusing you of being a bigot, but you sure as hell are acting like one at the moment.

So if denial is not about bigotry - as you claimed in your OP - what is it about, given the context of your posts, and the way your phrase them.

You have, a couple of posts back, accepted that the holocaust happened when you said this;



Yes there were great piles of belongings at Auschwitz, Belsen etc.
Yet there were other Non-Jews killed and held captive in these camps also.
HITLERS REGIME DID NOT SPECIFICALLY DESIRE TO CONQUER JEWS; THEY WERE A FRINGE BENEFIT, BUT NOT THE ULTIMATE!!!
jews were not the only ones killed by The Third Reich.


So, whats the agenda at play here?


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Jun, 29 2009 @ 10:25 AM
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A long time ago, owing to family history, I began researching the history of the Middle East. From it's beginning, right up to the invasion and occupation of Iraq.

The one thing that never, ever ceases to amaze me Neformore, are the idiots who trawl throughout the web, looking for places to plant their misguided seeds and grow discontent.

I have often asked pro Arab posters why, when the combined Arab countries have over 250 billion square kilometers, they want to eradicate tiny Israel with a border measuring just 15,000 or so kilometers? I have never received an answer, from any of them.

There have been plenty of them bleating about the way Israel has treated the Arabs but the funny thing is, when a suicide bombers goes up in a puff of smoke killing and maiming [more often than not] innocent women and children, they remain silent.

I also ask these same people why the countried of Lebanon, Syria and Jordan keep the 'so called' Palestinian refugees in camps and not in proper housing? Again, never an answer.

Finally, I ask them why the world's press never report on new Arab settlements on the West Bank and Gaza? Surprisingly, I have never received any reply.

I used to be an Israeli supporter, especially after Egypt and Syria launched their attacks during Yom Kippur.

Not now. I deplore Israel's actions in the Gaza Strip, Khan Yunis and the Western Bank and Israel must be brought to account.

By denying the Holocaust took place and belittling the quantity of human life so bestially slaughtered, does little to enhance their misguided arguaments.

[edit on 29-6-2009 by fritz]



posted on Jun, 29 2009 @ 12:14 PM
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Originally posted by KRISKALI777
Yet the interests in America knew the needed an inital foothold in the middle-east.


America, or rather Standard Oil, had already signed a 60 year agreement with the Bin Saud's for drilling rights. It was Britain that required the foothold or rather the alliance in the Middle East. Jerusalem is strategically important to the defence of the Suez Canal. If you know even a tiny bit about geo-politics you will know the significance of the Suez to Britain. A friendly, preferably anglo-friendly Israel was essential to post-colonial Britain, they were careful not to allow the US to get too involved, which is why they were palmed off on the Bin Saud's.





[edit on 29-6-2009 by KilgoreTrout]



posted on Jun, 29 2009 @ 01:29 PM
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Originally posted by fritz

I have the BNP's Manifesto booklet in colour.



Forgive the slght OT detour...but that has got to be the funniest freudian slip I've heard in a long while



posted on Jun, 29 2009 @ 05:51 PM
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reply to post by Kandinsky
 



Who are these people? Are they Jewish? Who can tell? Why are they emaciated? The image is part of a sequence taken at Belsen by the German camp guards. Arguing over numbers is redundant when normal people met their end in this way.



I agree, numbers are not as important as the fact that normal everyday people such a each and everyone of you reading this met their end like this and more importantly, DOES MANKIND EVER LEARN FROM HIS MISTAKES?

Seeing a arrogant elitist jerk like GWB in the White House for eight years, the American People lied to again and again and again, manipulated into a war and now we come to find out torture was condoned by The United States of America, a country suppose to be a beacon of enlightenment to the rest of the world.

DOES MAN KIND EVER LEARN OR IS HE DOOMED TO JUST KEEP REPEATING THE SAME BULL SHI& OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

May all those tragic souls rest in peace.



posted on Jun, 29 2009 @ 08:04 PM
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Even if we ignore certain topics, some simply will not disappear. So it is with the Holocaust, and it is futile to adopt an unrealistic attitude and hope the Holocaust will simply go away.There has to be a reason why the Holocaust is THE taboo of our times. The slightest violation of this taboo enrages the entire world of historians, jurists, politicians, and media people to the point of utter panic. I think that Holocaust revisionists are most relentlessly persecuted because those in power know that what they do is to challenge the ideological foundation upon which their abuse of power rests – their amoral foundation.

One of the important characteristics of evil is that it forbids questioning and
it taboos or criminalizes the candid search for answers.

In Europe censorship of revisionism is quite differentiated. For example, many states such as Italy, Portugal, England, Ireland, and the Scandinavian countries do not impose any censorship. Most of the eastern and south eastern European countries do not have similar laws, but there are initiatives under way to change this. For example, any country that wishes to join NATO must have on its books some law that will criminalize “Holocaust denial.” In January 1999 Poland enacted such laws, and then in April 1999 it joined NATO. Spain and Holland have such laws, but they are not rigorously enforced. Holland perhaps does not enforce its law because a revisionist movement as such does not exist there. Energetically enforced laws are to be found in Poland, France, Belgium, and in the German-speaking countries. Austria punishes revisionist statements with a maximum of ten years, Germany with a maximum of five years (as does Israel), then Poland and Switzerland up to three years, followed by France and Belgium with a maximum of one year prison.

The surprising thing about censorship in western democracies is the fact that a large majority of the population in those countries either accepts such censorship measures or is at best indifferent to them. This in spite of the fact that only a small percentage of citizens nurture any radical views that are fanatically inclined to suppress unwanted views. This powerful and unified front against any major revision of historiography can be understood if we consider the interests of those groups who demand and support this censorship most intensely.

The most glaring example of censorship is Germany. German censorship – the prohibition, confiscation, and total destruction of material through German court orders – also remains a secret to most citizens, because these judgments are published in secret lists that the German Federal Bureau of Investigation collects. Anyone who thinks about getting prohibited material for distribution, production, importing, exporting, storing, offering, reviewing, selling, or bringing it into circulation in any other way, will receive a visit from the police.

Anyone who tries to publish anything prohibited about the Shoa will be prosecuted for “stirring up the masses” and “inciting to hatred.” They will be put on trial and their book will be confiscated and burnt under police supervision.

Do we really believe that in order to "prevent something like this from ever happening again" we must persecute people and burn books?


In German legal procedures against revisionists public prosecutors merely assert that it is “common knowledge” that revisionists are factually wrong.
There is, therefore, no need to prove the case against a revisionist. The defendant, on the other hand, has no right to prove his case because the judges follow the public prosecutor and declare that it is “common knowledge” that the defendant is always wrong. If the defendant still insists on proving his case, then this attracts a more severe sentence because the defendant is seen not to show any “insight” or “fails to learn,” because he repeats his thought crime in court instead of showing remorse.

continued (...)



[edit on 29-6-2009 b

[edit on 29-6-2009 by D377MC]



posted on Jun, 29 2009 @ 08:04 PM
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Historians and forensic experts are always rejected, because “common knowledge” predetermines that they are wrong, no matter what they would have to say.
Next, if these experts do not shut up, they are prosecuted as well, and during their trials, they are prevented from submitting their own works in their own defense. They are convicted because their views, which they are not allowed to voice in court are considered wrong on account of “common knowledge.”

How can the judges know that the defendants are wrong if they do not listen to what they have to say? It seems that “common knowledge.” makes them infallible...

We are far from being finished with this grotesque story, because defense
lawyers who dare to present evidence that casts doubt on the truthfulness of the Holocaust are subject to prosecution as well . And since the lawyer’s
views are wrong due to “common knowledge,” he has no right to defend
himself with the evidence he intended to present on behalf of his client either.

Revisionists are doubly condemned before they even enter a court:
first, it is predetermined by infallible “common knowledge” that revisionists
are wrong and therefore guilty, and second, it is “common knowledge” that revisionists are morally inferior individuals acting out of malicious motives.

Up to the beginning of the 1990s, no defense team even attempted to introduce evidence that would contradict the Holocaust. Defense lawyers merely wanted to get acquittals or mild verdicts for their clients, and the only way to achieve this was by not antagonizing the judges, that is to say, by agreeing to the general historical picture. But when the introduction of evidence contradicting this general historical picture was tried since the year 1991, German politicians and judges saw to it under brutal violation of procedural, penal, and constitutional law that this historical taboo is now legally unassailable.

Do we want to eliminate the most fundamental civil rights just in order to make some left-wing Zionists feel more comfortable, so that they do not have to face critical questions and a possible refutation of some aspects of their ideology? And since when is ideological “comfort” a civil right?

What logic permits simple criminal law to overrule or suspend fundamental human rights? Who ultimately determines which opinion is allowed and which is not?

The logic goes like this: claiming that the Holocaust is a lie will lead to
people blaming the most likely culprit for such a lie: the Jews. As a next step, people will be inclined to see the inventors of this ultimate lie as the ultimate evil, and thus will strive to deny them their human dignity by persecuting them all over again.

Is that a good arguement to justify continuously supporting a lie?

Basically, what we are looking at is this: the civil rights of a certain group
are expanded so far that it limits the civil rights of other groups: in practice
they have the right to distort, lie, and exaggerate at will and nobody is allowed to challenge their claims.

There is something terribly wrong with that...

Suppressing discussions on undesirable topics is the final reason why
populations in totalitarian countries lose their trust in their own authorities.
Hence, if we wish to prevent totalitarian developments from taking place, then we are duty bound to discuss taboo topics seriously and to put them in the service of democracy so as to prevent any misuse.

The truth does not need a prison sentence to protect it. Lies do.


Source "GERMAR RUDOLF, LECTURES ON THE HOLOCAUST"





[edit on 29-6-2009 by D377MC]

[edit on 29-6-2009 by D377MC]



posted on Jun, 29 2009 @ 09:32 PM
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reply to post by D377MC
 


You give well thought out response

My beef is that when someone says anything contrary to the excepted (politically correct view) they are slammed; freedom of speech
as long as one says the correct thing!.

Some on this thread have said I've got a chip on my shoulder over Jews??-if you like; but alas this is the predictable response I'd expect.
I'm not sure that this is correct- who are really Jews if Jews were exterminated?

When you cant win a debate (or can't except others share different opinions); resort to impugning one's integrity. You'll have to do better with insults like that- it only serves to show what you are.
My difference of opinion has already impugned my integrity as the entertainingly laughable response to this most probably is- thats fine by me. But at the procols of this forum allow someone to have difference of opinion DONT THEY





posted on Jun, 29 2009 @ 09:40 PM
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reply to post by D377MC
 


Thanks for the insight. I'm beginning to understand western democracy a bit more now.



posted on Jun, 29 2009 @ 09:48 PM
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Ignorance with some is treated like a gift; having stood at Nazi concentration camp ovens and seen the charred bones still inside, having stood at the foot of eight foot tall piles of human teeth, shoes and other personnel items, having smelled the still lingering smell of death and read the letters incased in glass wherein the SS BRAGGED of raping, torturing and murdering their Jewish ‘cattle’, I have no doubts of the Nazi horrors.



posted on Jun, 29 2009 @ 10:30 PM
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reply to post by KRISKALI777
 





I know they have a hard time accepting that they aren't really 'Gods' chosen people and that they were the only ones vilified in the war.


Oh no they ARE God's chosen people and you and many like you are going to soon find that out to your horror - as will the Russian and Iranian airforces and army. God will soon reclaim the 6000 year lease to this earth He gave man, and all your scoffing and disbelief will only serve to ensure your baking - repent.



posted on Jun, 29 2009 @ 10:49 PM
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Originally posted by SGTChas
Ignorance with some is treated like a gift; having stood at Nazi concentration camp ovens and seen the charred bones still inside, having stood at the foot of eight foot tall piles of human teeth, shoes and other personnel items, having smelled the still lingering smell of death and read the letters incased in glass wherein the SS BRAGGED of raping, torturing and murdering their Jewish ‘cattle’, I have no doubts of the Nazi horrors.


Forgive me if I don't quite believe you. Or rather, your 'rendering' of what is presumably a visit to one of the camps leaves no doubt about what you were told. At first glance, a collection of objects should be taken only for what it proves: somebody has collected them. Such a collection says very little about the fate of their former owners.


Oh no they ARE God's chosen people and you and many like you are going to soon find that out to your horror.


Go ahead and convince me of that. Biblically I mean.


Thanks for the insight. I'm beginning to understand western democracy a bit more now.


No such thing I am afraid. It's just becoming more evident as everything falls apart.



[edit on 29-6-2009 by D377MC]

[edit on 29-6-2009 by D377MC]



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