Jesus' Christianity - Not Seen Today

reply to post by Jim Scott

On it, fishing evidence atm

www.guardian.co.uk...

heres something what backs up my claim

and lol it says like this

Almost 700 years later, a Vatican researcher has come up with what she says is evidence to show that they did indeed, as alleged at their trial, worship the image of a "bearded man".

[edit on 23-6-2009 by Watchdog-Finland]

reply to post by Watchdog-Finland

And of course, there is evidence for the Shroud even in the First Century AD in the Acts of Thomas. Can't get much earlier than that. www.shroudofturin4journalists.com...

reply to post by Jim Scott
still it isnt real, forget it, try another abrouch(hopely i did spell it right)

im not convinced, but what it said that form the Vatican secret archives; ahaaa i say there we find the truith about human histroy the real truth, why not all bust in there and take a look for our self

reply to post by Jim Scott

By gaining the humility, and putting God way up there in respect and yourself way down there at the bottom, your perspective will start off right.

Quite hard to do- if not impossible as convinced I am he's ultimately to blame for this nonsense..... I am a hard, hard person to be convinced of otherwise after being abused- and I got too many years of being convinced of abuse.

JimScott,

What an interesting thread and a refreshingly different point of view you have.

Originally posted by Jim Scott

Originally posted by mastermind77
I believe i have figured out what Christ represents.

A mathematical certainty that your soul is energy and can be capacitated or stored. Remember the ground shook after his passing. Well If your soul could theoreticly be latched on to by a magnetic burst of some kind, pulling it down to "hell" or the grid. by time/space/velocity of his energy, it took 3 days to come back up, and on the way to the TAU or top of the pyramid, he visited his friends and told them stuff.

Then to be deflected by a natural or timed phenomena pinged from the magnetosphere back to a chosen human body to be the one who fulfills the living word and God. HE by Gods timing went for a ride through death and back again.

You're doing a great job of analyzing the problem; however, you are trying to explain a spiritual occurrence with a scientific electromagnetic force without scientific evidence that the original object (soul) is electromagnetic. I think you will find science will not explain God, because it requires scientific testing and duplication with peer review.

I agree that science can only go so far in exploring the mysteries of religion, some articles of faith or miracles can't be adequately tested by science.

However one religious artifact that science CAN make determinations about is the Shroud of Turin. I thought that was proven to be a hoax but I read some of the links you posted and it's amazing that the 1988 test that 21 esteemed scientists signed their names to was done on a non-representative sample of the shroud...so I'd like to thank you for posting those links and educating me about the more recent findings, I'll be researching that some more. However it still seems like the face should have appeared wider if it's a natural process that resulted in the image, and if it's not a natural process but a miracle then we are back to the statement that it's beyond the scope of science to explain anyway.

As for your religious beliefs, I guess I'll find out if you're right when I die, but unfortunately I don't think I'll be able to post here at that time to tell everyone if you were right! It would be nice if I could though!

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
JimScott,

What an interesting thread and a refreshingly different point of view you have.

Originally posted by Jim Scott

Originally posted by mastermind77
I believe i have figured out what Christ represents.

A mathematical certainty that your soul is energy and can be capacitated or stored. Remember the ground shook after his passing. Well If your soul could theoreticly be latched on to by a magnetic burst of some kind, pulling it down to "hell" or the grid. by time/space/velocity of his energy, it took 3 days to come back up, and on the way to the TAU or top of the pyramid, he visited his friends and told them stuff.

Then to be deflected by a natural or timed phenomena pinged from the magnetosphere back to a chosen human body to be the one who fulfills the living word and God. HE by Gods timing went for a ride through death and back again.

You're doing a great job of analyzing the problem; however, you are trying to explain a spiritual occurrence with a scientific electromagnetic force without scientific evidence that the original object (soul) is electromagnetic. I think you will find science will not explain God, because it requires scientific testing and duplication with peer review.

I agree that science can only go so far in exploring the mysteries of religion, some articles of faith or miracles can't be adequately tested by science.

However one religious artifact that science CAN make determinations about is the Shroud of Turin. I thought that was proven to be a hoax but I read some of the links you posted and it's amazing that the 1988 test that 21 esteemed scientists signed their names to was done on a non-representative sample of the shroud...so I'd like to thank you for posting those links and educating me about the more recent findings, I'll be researching that some more. However it still seems like the face should have appeared wider if it's a natural process that resulted in the image, and if it's not a natural process but a miracle then we are back to the statement that it's beyond the scope of science to explain anyway.

As for your religious beliefs, I guess I'll find out if you're right when I die, but unfortunately I don't think I'll be able to post here at that time to tell everyone if you were right! It would be nice if I could though!

As is often the case, first press releases are taken and remembered as true, and later changes make pg. 4 in the third section of a newspaper. Take heart in knowing that there is salvation for you, whether you know of it now or not. You will go to heaven. Jesus is not losing anyone, except Satan, so He said.

Originally posted by Jim Scott
As is often the case, first press releases are taken and remembered as true, and later changes make pg. 4 in the third section of a newspaper. Take heart in knowing that there is salvation for you, whether you know of it now or not. You will go to heaven. Jesus is not losing anyone, except Satan, so He said.

That's true about the p.4 changes getting lost in the shuffle!

I always thought in Matthew 13, Jesus was saying he didn't want to share his secrets with "them" so he lost them in life at least, you think he still wants "them" when they die?

10-And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11-He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. (KJV)

It always struck me as odd that Jesus would be so selective, I mean, if heaven is really for everyone (other than Satan as you said) instead of a chosen few why not let everyone know the "mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven"?

I would have expected him to do as you said, to give everyone a chance, but it really seems in those verses like that's not the case.

I guess you can't be a Christian for 17 years (now 29) without picking up a few things!

I'd say the Christian reply to that one would be that Jesus then said 'go, make disciples of men' (going from memory, no exact reference, but if it's not right it's close ). The idea is that Christians are meant to evangelise. The mysteries are not 'given' to 'them', therefore they must be taught, shared.

Something along those lines anyway. I still prefer Jim Scott's take, however.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur

Originally posted by Jim Scott
As is often the case, first press releases are taken and remembered as true, and later changes make pg. 4 in the third section of a newspaper. Take heart in knowing that there is salvation for you, whether you know of it now or not. You will go to heaven. Jesus is not losing anyone, except Satan, so He said.

That's true about the p.4 changes getting lost in the shuffle!

I always thought in Matthew 13, Jesus was saying he didn't want to share his secrets with "them" so he lost them in life at least, you think he still wants "them" when they die?

10-And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11-He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. (KJV)

It always struck me as odd that Jesus would be so selective, I mean, if heaven is really for everyone (other than Satan as you said) instead of a chosen few why not let everyone know the "mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven"?

I would have expected him to do as you said, to give everyone a chance, but it really seems in those verses like that's not the case.

These disciples were in a close teacher-student relationship with Jesus, and had learned a great deal by then, although they also did not comprehend what they were learning. It took Pentecost and the Holy Spirit to do the rest. Jesus was not trying to create stumbling blocks for novices, and would not give meat first, but milk first. Timing was also important to Him, as when He was at the marriage feast at Cana and told His mother, "My time is not yet come."

There is a time and place for teaching. Like here and now. These things you are learning here with this thread would likely be poorly received if spoken from a corner downtown.

For many, these things will not be accepted until after death where we see clearly, and the purpose of man and the Savior are more apparent.

[edit on 24-6-2009 by Jim Scott]

Originally posted by Jim Scott
There is a time and place for teaching. Like here and now. These things you are learning here with this thread would likely be poorly received if spoken from a corner downtown.

I agree I agree this forum is definitely a better place for this topic than a street corner. I was confused when I first read this thread and would expect I would be similarly confused as an initial reaction upon hearing this on a street corner, this is the type of material you have to really think about, it's so different from the common preachings.

And that was about as good a reply on interpreting Matthew 13 as I could have hoped for, it sort of puts it in perspective for me, so thanks for that. But doesn't completely solve the question I had about it, it probably won't be solved until I can meet Jesus personally and ask him to clarify what he meant.

And that was about as good a reply on interpreting Matthew 13 as I could have hoped for, it sort of puts it in perspective for me, so thanks for that. But doesn't completely solve the question I had about it, it probably won't be solved until I can meet Jesus personally and ask him to clarify what he meant.

Truer words were never spoken. His love for you will comfort you here, and be with you forever. Love is what this is all about.

1 Cor 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Charity is translated as love for others, as in love thy neighbor... It is greater than faith. Those who live their lives helping others are living the Christian way. As you can see, we are in a world that needs to know the good news.

[edit on 24-6-2009 by Jim Scott]

reply to post by Jim Scott


Love never fails- yet I can offer proof of otherwise. Love not only fails, it fails spectacularly. if love never fails:

I'd have a family that at least thought about me- and wouldnt have disowned me, robbed me, and abused me

I'd have a woman who would care for me, love me, and would allow me to do the same

I'd not have ever had to have put up with some of the mind bending, mouth drying, blood draining things I have experienced. My God, who I DID love, SHOULD have protected me. You'd say " I was being tested". 'Tested' involves a reward when you manage thru it in a satisfactory manner- not a new test- even harder than the first, with not to much as a breath in between.

LOVE wouldn't have assaulted me with running into my ex g/f- after I struggled to put her out of my mind. It was simply unneeded... but there she was- and there went me.

I'll say it again. God has no concept of love- but he certainly has a grasp of abuse. Not to mention unaccountability by filtering all 'bad' things to Satan.

Originally posted by wylekat
reply to post by Jim Scott

 

Love never fails- yet I can offer proof of otherwise. Love not only fails, it fails spectacularly. if love never fails:

I'd have a family that at least thought about me- and wouldnt have disowned me, robbed me, and abused me

I'd have a woman who would care for me, love me, and would allow me to do the same

I'd not have ever had to have put up with some of the mind bending, mouth drying, blood draining things I have experienced. My God, who I DID love, SHOULD have protected me. You'd say " I was being tested". 'Tested' involves a reward when you manage thru it in a satisfactory manner- not a new test- even harder than the first, with not to much as a breath in between.

LOVE wouldn't have assaulted me with running into my ex g/f- after I struggled to put her out of my mind. It was simply unneeded... but there she was- and there went me.

I'll say it again. God has no concept of love- but he certainly has a grasp of abuse. Not to mention unaccountability by filtering all 'bad' things to Satan.

Thank you for sharing the difficulties in your life. You may have seen the difficulties I listed in my life, too. I am not in any position to judge the outcomes in your life, but I can share with you that the outcomes and difficulties in my life were valuable lessons, which made me a better person. I kept faith in God, and searched the scriptures for answers. I stayed close to God in prayer in most cases, but failed in others. In looking back over the past 55 sentient years in my relationship with God, I have the perspective now to see that every difficulty had the appropriate outcome to form my soul. Like Garth Brooks, I sometimes thank God for unanswered prayers, and imagine the paths that could have happened had I gotten what I wanted rather than what I needed. In looking back, I can see that God did not let me be tempted more than I could bear, even though I failed His tests.

Your life is not over, and you may find that the end has justified the means. It certainly has in my case.

Though you may have hate for God in your heart now, it will not remain in your heart after you die, and you will then see the purposes and paths that God has provided or prevented, and His love for you along that path of life that you suffered.

I pray that your life will get better for you, that you will find love and happiness, and that you will regain your relationship with Him.

Originally posted by Jim Scott

Originally posted by wylekat
reply to post by Jim Scott

 

Love never fails- yet I can offer proof of otherwise. Love not only fails, it fails spectacularly. if love never fails:

I'd have a family that at least thought about me- and wouldnt have disowned me, robbed me, and abused me

I'd have a woman who would care for me, love me, and would allow me to do the same

I'd not have ever had to have put up with some of the mind bending, mouth drying, blood draining things I have experienced. My God, who I DID love, SHOULD have protected me. You'd say " I was being tested". 'Tested' involves a reward when you manage thru it in a satisfactory manner- not a new test- even harder than the first, with not to much as a breath in between.

LOVE wouldn't have assaulted me with running into my ex g/f- after I struggled to put her out of my mind. It was simply unneeded... but there she was- and there went me.

I'll say it again. God has no concept of love- but he certainly has a grasp of abuse. Not to mention unaccountability by filtering all 'bad' things to Satan.

Thank you for sharing the difficulties in your life. You may have seen the difficulties I listed in my life, too. I am not in any position to judge the outcomes in your life, but I can share with you that the outcomes and difficulties in my life were valuable lessons, which made me a better person. I kept faith in God, and searched the scriptures for answers. I stayed close to God in prayer in most cases, but failed in others. In looking back over the past 55 sentient years in my relationship with God, I have the perspective now to see that every difficulty had the appropriate outcome to form my soul. Like Garth Brooks, I sometimes thank God for unanswered prayers, and imagine the paths that could have happened had I gotten what I wanted rather than what I needed. In looking back, I can see that God did not let me be tempted more than I could bear, even though I failed His tests.

Your life is not over, and you may find that the end has justified the means. It certainly has in my case.

Though you may have hate for God in your heart now, it will not remain in your heart after you die, and you will then see the purposes and paths that God has provided or prevented, and His love for you along that path of life that you suffered.

I pray that your life will get better for you, that you will find love and happiness, and that you will regain your relationship with Him.

I won't pretend to know anything about the difficulties either of you have faced. But I did listen to Immaculee Ilibagiza speak on a Wayne Dyer show about how family and friends were torn from their homes, tortured, raped, and murdered with machetes. I can't imagine much worse than her story. I think she would have good reason to wallow in self-pity if anyone would, but she used God's strength to survive the genocide and bring a message of hope to millions, her story is truly inspiring and i think we can all learn from it, I know I have.
www.myhero.com...

Quite right. What doesn't kill me makes me stronger, or so. Life is full of surprises, isn't it? Let's not shake a finger at God, because all of our experiences are a result of our choices...which way we turned, how fast we walked, who we said words to .... and we are all interrelated. Microsoft found that there are truly only 6 degrees of separation between each of us.

reply to post by Jim Scott


Hi Jim/

The Icon is not the same as an IDOL...two different things here!
I explained about Icons in another post....so wont do it again.

You gave an example of the 'shroud of Turin' how did this come about?
Do you believe it?
Why was it allowed to be shown to man?

An Icon is not worshipped!
It is revered.....it is called 'windows of heaven'...a picture of a loved one is NOT worshipped?
So,it is there for remembrance.
People have posters of all kind of rock stars(or whatever they call themselves)these are IDOLS!

ICXC
helen

Originally posted by dodadoom
You can always tell a TRUE christian by what day
of the week he/she observes the sabbath.
That cuts to the chase of what it really means,
and separates his true followers. Persecution anyone?
There are many pagan abberations of his truth,...
especially nowadays!

No, no, no!!!

You can tell who the True Christians are by the clear and obvious fact that they have love for one another! By Love, I do not refer to the mush that MSM, Hollywood and the sex industry portray, but rather Agape, as lived by Jesus.

Any idiot can go to church or just be lazy on Sunday et al and claim this is the proof he is of the True Church. True Christians openly declare, without embarrassment or shame that Jesus is Lord! Any day of the week.

God does not care what day of the week we favour! He does not care if we are late! He does not care what we wear! He cares about the content of our hearts and what actions we may take or refrain from. But He knows we are weak! He knows the condition of the human heart.

oops, double post

[edit on 28/6/2009 by teapot]

Originally posted by helen670
reply to post by Jim Scott

 

Hi Jim/

The Icon is not the same as an IDOL...two different things here!
I explained about Icons in another post....so wont do it again.

You gave an example of the 'shroud of Turin' how did this come about?
Do you believe it?
Why was it allowed to be shown to man?

An Icon is not worshipped!
It is revered.....it is called 'windows of heaven'...a picture of a loved one is NOT worshipped?
So,it is there for remembrance.
People have posters of all kind of rock stars(or whatever they call themselves)these are IDOLS!

ICXC
helen

icon S: (n) icon, ikon (a conventional religious painting in oil on a small wooden panel; venerated in the Eastern Church) wordnetweb.princeton.edu...
venerate # S: (v) reverence, fear, revere, venerate (regard with feelings of respect and reverence; consider hallowed or exalted or be in awe of) "Fear God as your father"; "We venerate genius" wordnetweb.princeton.edu...
worship # S: (v) idolize, idolise, worship, hero-worship, revere (love unquestioningly and uncritically or to excess; venerate as an idol) "Many teenagers idolized the Beatles"

Regarding the Shroud of Turin, and your questions, I do believe it is the authentic image of Jesus. I believe it is intended to show the suffering He endured for each of us, the love He has for each of us. He was the Lamb of God, who took away the sins of the entire world. On the shroud, even a non-believer should be impressed with the excruciating pain and suffering someone went through. Someday they will meet that someone, and when they know of the degree of His love, their knees will bend in worship...not by compulsory means, but by understanding and full comprehension of the greatest love of all.