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Originally posted by randyvs
What Jesus Christ did at Calvary would take more than just a man.
it would take a God. Who else could do that?Who else would? I know of
no one. I concur. He came that we may have life and have it more abundantly.
[edit on 19-6-2009 by randyvs]
Originally posted by Jim Scott
The greatest misunderstanding in the history of mankind is Christianity. It has also led to a complete misunderstanding of the nature of God, causing so many to reject God. It is not the fault of the individual, it is the fault of the so-called church. Let's get some things straight:
1. Under Christianity, there would be no wars. You would love your enemy, bless those who use you, etc. Therefore, all wars in the name of Jesus are false.
2. There would be no condemnation or judgment to hell. Jesus Christ said He died for the sins of all mankind. He paid for your sins, full price, and you have eternal life, guaranteed. No man can take that away from you. No church doctrine can take it away.
3. You are not under any obligation to be good in order to get to heaven. Jesus did that for you, gave up His life to save you, so you could go.
4. You are not responsible for what you do here. As Jesus said, you are now seeing through a glass, darkly, but then face to face. You will not really know what's going on until after you are dead. You are not held accountable for everything you do here.
5. You receive heaven for free. You do not have to go if you don't want to go. Everyone can go. After you die, you will be able to make a choice as to whether you want to go to heaven or not. You will be taught then what it's all about, and can make your choices then. See I Peter 3:19 for example, where those who were drowned in the Great Flood received further teaching.
6. If you choose to not go to heaven after you die, after being taught all about your choices, then you will voluntarily refuse to go, and will be sent away from heaven, as are the followers of Satan.
7. Your righteousness means nothing. All the rules and laws for conformity to attain heaven were fulfilled for you individually in Jesus Christ. He did your baptism, he lived the perfect life for you, he paid for your sins. You do nothing.
God loves you more than you can comprehend in this life. When you die, you will see it clearly. Everyone will. Every knee will bow, every tongue will confess because they will see clearly. All will understand at that point. You are not condemned or judged for what you do here, Jesus did it for you. That's the gospel, which means "good news." Any teachings you have received up to this point are not good news. They are obligatory, burdensome, guilt-filled, and not working well for you. You are free.
I have seen it. Don't sweat the small stuff here. Live for God, not because of commandment but because of what He has given you out of love. The reason a true Christian doesn't do unrighteous acts is because he would do nothing to offend the God who loves him so much, not because he is under compulsory commandment to serve a vengeful god.
I have seen it. Don't sweat the small stuff here. Live for God, not because of commandment but because of what He has given you out of love.
Originally posted by mastermind77
I believe i have figured out what Christ represents.
A mathematical certainty that your soul is energy and can be capacitated or stored. Remember the ground shook after his passing. Well If your soul could theoreticly be latched on to by a magnetic burst of some kind, pulling it down to "hell" or the grid. by time/space/velocity of his energy, it took 3 days to come back up, and on the way to the TAU or top of the pyramid, he visited his friends and told them stuff.
Then to be deflected by a natural or timed phenomena pinged from the magnetosphere back to a chosen human body to be the one who fulfills the living word and God. HE by Gods timing went for a ride through death and back again.
Originally posted by helen670
The Bible has already been interpreted by Holy Men,Fathers of the early Church and regarded as Law...as was the Old Testament.
It is not for OWN interpretation.
Originally posted by ravhen
If you wish to speak out against religion, you need to get your facts straight first before you mislead others with your nonsensical points. You say that Jesus died for everyone and that everyone automatically has a free ticket into Heaven. Jesus did die for everyone, but if you believe that everyone will be taken into heaven you have to explain verses like:
Matt.10. 33 - but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven.
Matt. 7. 23. - Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'
[PS:It is difficult to work with the NIV because it is a combination of anti-Christian and pro-Christian codex. I use the King James Version because it leaves out the Alexandrian codices, and avoids the confusion of the anti-Christian doctrines.] The point to take from this is the explanation to the Jews present that the reward for giving evil to others is to receive a just reward of suffering. Of course, Jesus has suffered for the sins of the rich man, and when the rich man figures out that he is saved from the torment through the sacrifice of Jesus, he will call upon the name of Jesus in hell and be saved. As King David mentioned, "Thou shalt not leave my soul in hell." Psalm 16:10, and see also Acts 2:27. You will learn about and receive Jesus in hell (I Peter 3:19-21)
Luke 16:23-25-NIV AND BEING IN TORMENTS IN HELL, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. “Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; FOR I AM TORMENTED IN THIS FLAME.’ But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and YOU ARE TORMENTED!
Revelation 14:10-11 "he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. HE WILL BE TORMENTED WITH BURNING SULFUR IN THE PRESENCE OF THE HOLY ANGELS AND OF THE LAMB And THE SMOKE OF THEIR TORMENT RISES FOR EVER AND EVER. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name."
Mark 9:47-48 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire-- 48 where 'THEIR WORM DOES NOT DIE AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.'
Matthew 5:22
But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca, ' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.
Matthew 10:28
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
The answer: through the sacrifice of Jesus.
Matthew 23:33
"You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?
No one overcometh, only Jesus. That is why you get into heaven, not by your own works.
Revelation 2:11
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
I could go on and on with scripture (which i noticed that you used none of to back your beliefs), but i think i've made my case. Heaven isn't something that you're given because Jesus died. He gave his life so that you could have the OPPORTUNITY, not so that those who do not love him could spend an eternity with him in paradise. Please pick up a Bible and do some research before you mislead the hundreds of people who will read your posts. I'm not here to preach fire and brimstone, but there ARE consequences to every action a man makes.
~ravhen
Hi J.S/
Jesus Christ did as He did, so that ,WE too, can do, as He did ...He showed us the Way.
Why else would God take Flesh and become one of us?
Why did Saint John the Baptist say that he was not worthy?
Was he not a Prophet of the Jews?
This was done so WE too can do as Christ did...He showed us an example.
But men forget the examples Of Christ and Do as THEY want because it pleases them to their OWN advantage.
Baptism is not required?
Why is it then that He said .... "He who believes and is baptised will be saved" (Mark 16:16).
"Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptising them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit..." (Matthew 28:19).
"Truly. truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God" (John 3:5).
"But to all who received him,
who believed in his name,
he gave power to become children of God; who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God" (John 1:12-13).
St. Paul says: "Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death.
We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death,
so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father we, too, might walk in newness of life" (Rom 6:3-4).
Baptism is a requirement because it is instituted by the Lord Himself.
Unto Baptism one dies.
Upon rising from the baptismal font, one is re born as a follower of Christ.
Jesus Christ did not need to be baptized...But He did this as He did ALL things to show us the way...
"For as many of you as have been baptized in Christ,
have put on Christ" (Galatians 3:26-27).
"Therefore, if any one is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has passed away, behold the new has come" (2 Corinth 5:17).
I have seen it. Don't sweat the small stuff here. Live for God, not because of commandment but because of what He has given you out of love.
Commandment of God....Yes, WE should live because of His Commandment...This is exactly why Adam and Eve fell away from God...They failed to see what God was telling them...The brought DEATH to themselves...and This DEATH continues...Death was not created by God, Death was BROUGHT into the world because of the falling away(SIN)
Jesus Christ destroyed DEATH ....Oh Death, where is thy Victory, Oh, death, where is thy sting'?
The Bible has already been interpreted by Holy Men,Fathers of the early Church and regarded as Law...as was the Old Testament.
It is not for OWN interpretation.
As for having another book written?
Would it not be ''just ANOTHER'' book?
ICXN
helen
Originally posted by TheStev
Originally posted by helen670
The Bible has already been interpreted by Holy Men,Fathers of the early Church and regarded as Law...as was the Old Testament.
It is not for OWN interpretation.
And yet, Romans 3:23 tells us 'all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God'. Are we to assume that 'all' actually means 'everyone except the guys who translated and interpreted the bible'? There's miles between 'all' and 'most'. Food for thought.
Interesting that your only real gripe was baptism too. Frankly, I would have thought a God who made the universe would care more about the hearts and minds of men than a little holy water, but each to their own I suppose.
Kudos to the OP, a S + F. Nice to see a version of Christianity that isn't actually Paul-ianity.
What is it with this Paul-inity?
Originally posted by helen670
Originally posted by TheStev
Originally posted by helen670
The Bible has already been interpreted by Holy Men,Fathers of the early Church and regarded as Law...as was the Old Testament.
It is not for OWN interpretation.
And yet, Romans 3:23 tells us 'all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God'. Are we to assume that 'all' actually means 'everyone except the guys who translated and interpreted the bible'? There's miles between 'all' and 'most'. Food for thought.
Interesting that your only real gripe was baptism too. Frankly, I would have thought a God who made the universe would care more about the hearts and minds of men than a little holy water, but each to their own I suppose.
Kudos to the OP, a S + F. Nice to see a version of Christianity that isn't actually Paul-ianity.
Hi/
Yes, I stand that the Bible is not of OWN interpretation!
I fully agree here, and we should consider all the text, not selected texts. For example, if it states that Jesus came not to condemn the world (John 3:17) but to save it, and He will draw all men unto Him (see above) then if I were to say some men were not allowed because Jesus condemned them, that would be inconsistent with scripture, right?
I agree and I have.
And YES,we ALL fall short of the Glory of God!
The Fathers that translated the Bible were of ONE opinion...they didn't simply translate into their OWN thinking.
If you like, the Bible is in the Original Hebrew and Greek....Go read it and give us your opinion!
These are not the ideas of others, they are mine.
Dont go interpreting OTHERS own fantasy translation!
Food for thought!
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13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. 15Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.