The greatest misunderstanding in the history of mankind is Christianity. It has also led to a complete misunderstanding of the nature of God, causing so many to reject God. It is not the fault of the individual, it is the fault of the so-called church. Let's get some things straight:

1. Under Christianity, there would be no wars. You would love your enemy, bless those who use you, etc. Therefore, all wars in the name of Jesus are false.

2. There would be no condemnation or judgment to hell. Jesus Christ said He died for the sins of all mankind. He paid for your sins, full price, and you have eternal life, guaranteed. No man can take that away from you. No church doctrine can take it away.

3. You are not under any obligation to be good in order to get to heaven. Jesus did that for you, gave up His life to save you, so you could go.

4. You are not responsible for what you do here. As Jesus said, you are now seeing through a glass, darkly, but then face to face. You will not really know what's going on until after you are dead. You are not held accountable for everything you do here.

5. You receive heaven for free. You do not have to go if you don't want to go. Everyone can go. After you die, you will be able to make a choice as to whether you want to go to heaven or not. You will be taught then what it's all about, and can make your choices then. See I Peter 3:19 for example, where those who were drowned in the Great Flood received further teaching.

6. If you choose to not go to heaven after you die, after being taught all about your choices, then you will voluntarily refuse to go, and will be sent away from heaven, as are the followers of Satan.

7. Your righteousness means nothing. All the rules and laws for conformity to attain heaven were fulfilled for you individually in Jesus Christ. He did your baptism, he lived the perfect life for you, he paid for your sins. You do nothing.

God loves you more than you can comprehend in this life. When you die, you will see it clearly. Everyone will. Every knee will bow, every tongue will confess because they will see clearly. All will understand at that point. You are not condemned or judged for what you do here, Jesus did it for you. That's the gospel, which means "good news." Any teachings you have received up to this point are not good news. They are obligatory, burdensome, guilt-filled, and not working well for you. You are free.

I have seen it. Don't sweat the small stuff here. Live for God, not because of commandment but because of what He has given you out of love. The reason a true Christian doesn't do unrighteous acts is because he would do nothing to offend the God who loves him so much, not because he is under compulsory commandment to serve a vengeful god.

Jesus knew many soldiers.
I don't think he would ever change the world that much.
He has given us everything we want now and some people want war.
Its called free will.
While you are in the world, you will have to suffer. But cheer up!
I have defeated the world. - Jesus
The world change will never be effected by man.
So as people have said for centuries, the end is near.
Or the beginning is near.

What Jesus Christ did at Calvary would take more than just a man.
it would take a God. Who else could do that?Who else would? I know of
noone. I conqur.He came that we may have life and have it more abundantly.



[edit on 19-6-2009 by randyvs]

What a fantastic and beautiful question. I've known my share of evangelical Christians in my life and I've always had one question no one can answer. "What gives us the right to judge others for their earthly actions?"

Sure, we can impose laws on each other. That seems to be a fundamental tenant of an organized society. But what gives us the right to morally judge these people. As you so succinctly state in point 1 - our job is to LOVE each other. Not hate, not judge, just LOVE.

Originally posted by randyvs
What Jesus Christ did at Calvary would take more than just a man.
it would take a God. Who else could do that?Who else would? I know of
no one. I concur. He came that we may have life and have it more abundantly.
[edit on 19-6-2009 by randyvs]

You are quite correct. You can easily prove that He was God just by doing the "theological mathematics," if you will. Consider the gift and the payment for the gift. By example, if I were going to Disneyland and buying a ticket for the day, I would be able to get one person into Disneyland, and only for one day. I paid that price. By comparison, what is the ticket Jesus offers? It is an eternal number of days. What would be the sacrifice for an eternal number of days? Well, it could not be the sacrifice of a finite number of days of life, as in the life of one man. It would be the loss of life of an agent having an infinite number of days. The price would have to be paid by an agent that had never sinned, as the price is to receive a sinless reward. Just by that example, we have one payment for one life, one for one.

However, He paid for everyone. He could co-locate on the cross, representing in fact all the billions of people who ever lived, one for one.

Let's see how that works: From the scripture, we have Jesus, while alive, stating that he would be "in the midst" of wherever might be a gathering of two or three of the 70 being sent out on their first mission without purse or script. We also see Jesus in heaven at the same time He is on earth (John 3:13) or making sounds in heaven at his baptism saying things that represent the Father (see John 5:37). We know today that He hears our prayers. He said then that He would be with each of us, even to the end of the world (Matt 28:20) Therefore, it is no effort for God to be in many places at once, if not everywhere at once.

Putting Him on the cross, in this fashion, means that Jesus died on the cross one time for you, one time for me, one time for someone else, etc. An infinite number of lives paid by God, for a sinless life in heaven, paid by God who is sinless. That's all it really ever was, that's the good news. It's not about you. It's about Him and His sacrifice for you because He loves you. You couldn't do it. You needed help. If you lived a sinless life, and died at the age of 120, you could possibly be sacrificed to pay for 120 years in heaven, using "theological math."


When you die, you will see His sacrifice for you, specifically, and His love for you, specifically and specially, and you will come to realize how good and loving He really is. His compassion for your plight on earth is balanced with His knowing that your suffering is positively developing your soul. You will see many suffer. Death is not a big thing to Him, as you will transition from life to death to be with Him, which is the best thing that could happen....spending eternity in the presence of a loving and kind God. He died for us, one for one. Now that you have read this, you may see the number 141 popping up in your life as a reminder for the rest of your life. (sounds crazy, right? wait and see...) Strange things happen. One day I was out selling, feeling particularly low driving through San Jose, CA, thinking how bad things were going. Then a car pulled in front of me, and it's license plate said "3(heart symbol)JSCOT". Take if for what you want, but it sure picked me up. My personal interpretation: 3(the trinity of God) loves me (my name on the plate). You don't have to look for these things. God states that the hairs on your head are numbered. That means, when one falls, He knows. He pays attention to the smallest details about you, and your thoughts. He is always there for you. He loves you. Don't be afraid to tell or ask Him anything.

Looking forward to seeing you in heaven. Heaven will be a wonderful place beyond imagination, but will not be foreign to your mind.


[edit on 19-6-2009 by Jim Scott]

excellent thread!! wish more people would wake up to the facts you

present. It has to do with FAITH, in our LORD above.

I believe i have figured out what Christ represents.

A mathematical certainty that your soul is energy and can be capacitated or stored. Remember the ground shook after his passing. Well If your soul could theoreticly be latched on to by a magnetic burst of some kind, pulling it down to "hell" or the grid. by time/space/velocity of his energy, it took 3 days to come back up, and on the way to the TAU or top of the pyramid, he visited his friends and told them stuff.

Then to be deflected by a natural or timed phenomena pinged from the magnetosphere back to a chosen human body to be the one who fulfills the living word and God. HE by Gods timing went for a ride through death and back again.

If you wish to speak out against religion, you need to get your facts straight first before you mislead others with your nonsensical points. You say that Jesus died for everyone and that everyone automatically has a free ticket into Heaven. Jesus did die for everyone, but if you believe that everyone will be taken into heaven you have to explain verses like:

Matt.10. 33 - but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven.

Matt. 7. 23. - Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

Luke 16:23-25-NIV AND BEING IN TORMENTS IN HELL, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. “Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; FOR I AM TORMENTED IN THIS FLAME.’ But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and YOU ARE TORMENTED!

Revelation 14:10-11 "he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. HE WILL BE TORMENTED WITH BURNING SULFUR IN THE PRESENCE OF THE HOLY ANGELS AND OF THE LAMB And THE SMOKE OF THEIR TORMENT RISES FOR EVER AND EVER. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name."

Mark 9:47-48 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire-- 48 where 'THEIR WORM DOES NOT DIE AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.'

Matthew 5:22
But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca, ' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.

Matthew 10:28
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Matthew 23:33
"You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?

Revelation 2:11
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the SECOND death.


------------------------------------------------
I could go on and on with scripture (which i noticed that you used none of to back your beliefs), but i think i've made my case. Heaven isn't something that you're given because Jesus died. He gave his life so that you could have the OPPORTUNITY, not so that those who do not love him could spend an eternity with him in paradise. Please pick up a Bible and do some research before you mislead the hundreds of people who will read your posts. I'm not here to preach fire and brimstone, but there ARE consequences to every action a man makes.

~ravhen

Originally posted by Jim Scott
The greatest misunderstanding in the history of mankind is Christianity. It has also led to a complete misunderstanding of the nature of God, causing so many to reject God. It is not the fault of the individual, it is the fault of the so-called church. Let's get some things straight:

1. Under Christianity, there would be no wars. You would love your enemy, bless those who use you, etc. Therefore, all wars in the name of Jesus are false.

2. There would be no condemnation or judgment to hell. Jesus Christ said He died for the sins of all mankind. He paid for your sins, full price, and you have eternal life, guaranteed. No man can take that away from you. No church doctrine can take it away.

3. You are not under any obligation to be good in order to get to heaven. Jesus did that for you, gave up His life to save you, so you could go.

4. You are not responsible for what you do here. As Jesus said, you are now seeing through a glass, darkly, but then face to face. You will not really know what's going on until after you are dead. You are not held accountable for everything you do here.

5. You receive heaven for free. You do not have to go if you don't want to go. Everyone can go. After you die, you will be able to make a choice as to whether you want to go to heaven or not. You will be taught then what it's all about, and can make your choices then. See I Peter 3:19 for example, where those who were drowned in the Great Flood received further teaching.

6. If you choose to not go to heaven after you die, after being taught all about your choices, then you will voluntarily refuse to go, and will be sent away from heaven, as are the followers of Satan.

7. Your righteousness means nothing. All the rules and laws for conformity to attain heaven were fulfilled for you individually in Jesus Christ. He did your baptism, he lived the perfect life for you, he paid for your sins. You do nothing.

God loves you more than you can comprehend in this life. When you die, you will see it clearly. Everyone will. Every knee will bow, every tongue will confess because they will see clearly. All will understand at that point. You are not condemned or judged for what you do here, Jesus did it for you. That's the gospel, which means "good news." Any teachings you have received up to this point are not good news. They are obligatory, burdensome, guilt-filled, and not working well for you. You are free.

I have seen it. Don't sweat the small stuff here. Live for God, not because of commandment but because of what He has given you out of love. The reason a true Christian doesn't do unrighteous acts is because he would do nothing to offend the God who loves him so much, not because he is under compulsory commandment to serve a vengeful god.

Hi J.S/

Jesus Christ did as He did, so that ,WE too, can do, as He did ...He showed us the Way.
Why else would God take Flesh and become one of us?
Why did Saint John the Baptist say that he was not worthy?
Was he not a Prophet of the Jews?
This was done so WE too can do as Christ did...He showed us an example.
But men forget the examples Of Christ and Do as THEY want because it pleases them to their OWN advantage.

Babtism is not required?
Why is it then that He said .... "He who believes and is baptised will be saved" (Mark 16:16).
"Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptising them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit..." (Matthew 28:19).
"Truly. truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God" (John 3:5).

"But to all who received him,
who believed in his name,
he gave power to become children of God; who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God" (John 1:12-13).


St. Paul says: "Do you not know that all of us who have been baptised into Christ Jesus were baptised into his death.
We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death,
so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father we, too, might walk in newness of life" (Rom 6:3-4).
Baptism is a requirement because it is instituted by the Lord Himself.
Unto Baptism one dies.
Upon rising from the baptismal font, one is re born as a follower of Christ.
Jesus Christ did not need to be baptized...But He did this as He did ALL things to show us the way...
"For as many of you as have been baptised in Christ,
have put on Christ" (Galatians 3:26-27).
"Therefore, if any one is in Christ, he is a newcreation; the old has passed away, behold the new has come" (2 Corinth 5:17).

I have seen it. Don't sweat the small stuff here. Live for God, not because of commandment but because of what He has given you out of love.

Commandment of God....Yes, WE should live because of His Commandment...This is exactly why Adam and Eve fell away from God...They failed to see what God was telling them...The brought DEATH to themselves...and This DEATH continues...Death was not created by God,Death was BROUGHT into the world because of the falling away(SIN)
Jesus Christ destroyed DEATH ....Oh Death, where is thy Victory, Oh, death, where is thy sting'?
Christ conquered death...."Death, where is thy sting? Where is thy victory? (I Corinthians 15:55).....
O Death, where is thy sting?
O Hades, where is thy victory?
Christ is risen, and thou art overthrown!
Christ is risen,
and the demons are fallen!
Christ is risen, and the Angels rejoice!
Christ is risen, and life doth reign!
Christ is risen, and there is none dead in the tomb!
For Christ is raised from the dead,
To Him be glory and dominion unto the ages of ages. Amen.

and is become the first-fruits of them that slept...the first fruits of them was ADAM...
Christ is also called The Second ADAM...For only God could take the SIN away from the First of them that Slept(Death)...

The Bible has already been interpreted by Holy Men,Fathers of the early Church and regarded as Law...as was the Old Testament.

It is not for OWN interpretation.

As for having another book written?
Would it not be ''just ANOTHER'' book?

ICXN
helen


EDIT...spelling mistakes.


[edit on 6/20/2009 by helen670]

Originally posted by mastermind77
I believe i have figured out what Christ represents.

A mathematical certainty that your soul is energy and can be capacitated or stored. Remember the ground shook after his passing. Well If your soul could theoreticly be latched on to by a magnetic burst of some kind, pulling it down to "hell" or the grid. by time/space/velocity of his energy, it took 3 days to come back up, and on the way to the TAU or top of the pyramid, he visited his friends and told them stuff.

Then to be deflected by a natural or timed phenomena pinged from the magnetosphere back to a chosen human body to be the one who fulfills the living word and God. HE by Gods timing went for a ride through death and back again.

You're doing a great job of analyzing the problem; however, you are trying to explain a spiritual occurrence with a scientific electromagnetic force without scientific evidence that the original object (soul) is electromagnetic. I think you will find science will not explain God, because it requires scientific testing and duplication with peer review.

Originally posted by helen670
The Bible has already been interpreted by Holy Men,Fathers of the early Church and regarded as Law...as was the Old Testament.

It is not for OWN interpretation.

And yet, Romans 3:23 tells us 'all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God'. Are we to assume that 'all' actually means 'everyone except the guys who translated and interpreted the bible'? There's miles between 'all' and 'most'. Food for thought.

Interesting that your only real gripe was baptism too. Frankly, I would have thought a God who made the universe would care more about the hearts and minds of men than a little holy water, but each to their own I suppose.

Kudos to the OP, a S + F. Nice to see a version of Christianity that isn't actually Paul-ianity.

Originally posted by ravhen
If you wish to speak out against religion, you need to get your facts straight first before you mislead others with your nonsensical points. You say that Jesus died for everyone and that everyone automatically has a free ticket into Heaven. Jesus did die for everyone, but if you believe that everyone will be taken into heaven you have to explain verses like:

Matt.10. 33 - but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven.

You will deny God before men, most people do. They will deny this or that about Him. He realizes you are weak and cannot be righteous, therefore He sent a savior. You have sins, many sins, one of which will be denying God. Your sins have been paid for by the love of God through the sacrifice of His Son.

Matt. 7. 23. - Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

This refers to men who are attempting to justify their own works, and not accepting the works of Jesus for them. When the time comes at judgment, do you believe, seeing clearly and face to face with God, that they will believe that their own works justify their entrance into heaven? They would not even do that on Earth. For example, would you stand on the steps of Disneyland and state that your own works entitle you to go into Disneyland? Also consider the verse stating that every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord. How will you reconcile the verses? I have shown you that there will be a second time after death for this reconciliation. Your interpretation is a God who hates and destroys his creation, a father who kills his own children. That is not God. God is love.

Luke 16:23-25-NIV AND BEING IN TORMENTS IN HELL, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. “Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; FOR I AM TORMENTED IN THIS FLAME.’ But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and YOU ARE TORMENTED!

[PS:It is difficult to work with the NIV because it is a combination of anti-Christian and pro-Christian codex. I use the King James Version because it leaves out the Alexandrian codices, and avoids the confusion of the anti-Christian doctrines.] The point to take from this is the explanation to the Jews present that the reward for giving evil to others is to receive a just reward of suffering. Of course, Jesus has suffered for the sins of the rich man, and when the rich man figures out that he is saved from the torment through the sacrifice of Jesus, he will call upon the name of Jesus in hell and be saved. As King David mentioned, "Thou shalt not leave my soul in hell." Psalm 16:10, and see also Acts 2:27. You will learn about and receive Jesus in hell (I Peter 3:19-21)

Revelation 14:10-11 "he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. HE WILL BE TORMENTED WITH BURNING SULFUR IN THE PRESENCE OF THE HOLY ANGELS AND OF THE LAMB And THE SMOKE OF THEIR TORMENT RISES FOR EVER AND EVER. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name."

This is easily explained in context with the point I am making. As long as you consistently want to follow the beast, you will be tormented. When you opt out, and call upon the name of Jesus, you will be saved, whether here or in hell. The conditional statement above is "for those who worship the beast." When that worship ends, after you have died and seen the truth, you will be saved from hell and reunited with God, who loves you.

Mark 9:47-48 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire-- 48 where 'THEIR WORM DOES NOT DIE AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.'

The everlasting nature of the place of torment is primarily for permanently housing Satan. You are not in the same situation. You live without sure knowledge of God coupled with open rebellion. One may rebel, but not really know if any of it is true. God will not permanently condemn you, but will keep you in that state until the suffering and refiner's fire allows you to see more clearly. When you are ready, you will leave.

Matthew 5:22
But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca, ' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.

You are in danger with all evil deeds. Jesus will take away the sin that would condemn you.

Matthew 10:28
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

One should respect God, as He is all-powerful. While He can destroy you, He loves you and will not.

Matthew 23:33
"You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?

The answer: through the sacrifice of Jesus.

Revelation 2:11
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

No one overcometh, only Jesus. That is why you get into heaven, not by your own works.

Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the SECOND death.
Same
------------------------------------------------
I could go on and on with scripture (which i noticed that you used none of to back your beliefs), but i think i've made my case. Heaven isn't something that you're given because Jesus died. He gave his life so that you could have the OPPORTUNITY, not so that those who do not love him could spend an eternity with him in paradise. Please pick up a Bible and do some research before you mislead the hundreds of people who will read your posts. I'm not here to preach fire and brimstone, but there ARE consequences to every action a man makes.

I could go on and on with scripture (which i noticed that you used none of to back your beliefs), but i think i've made my case. Heaven isn't something that you're given because Jesus died. He gave his life so that you could have the OPPORTUNITY, not so that those who do not love him could spend an eternity with him in paradise. Please pick up a Bible and do some research before you mislead the hundreds of people who will read your posts. I'm not here to preach fire and brimstone, but there ARE consequences to every action a man makes.
~ravhen

King James Bible
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. John 12:32
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. Romans 10:13
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Titus 3:5
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. I Peter 3:18-20
All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; Isaiah 64:6
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: Romans 3:10






[edit on 20-6-2009 by Jim Scott]

Hi J.S/
Jesus Christ did as He did, so that ,WE too, can do, as He did ...He showed us the Way.
Why else would God take Flesh and become one of us?
Why did Saint John the Baptist say that he was not worthy?
Was he not a Prophet of the Jews?
This was done so WE too can do as Christ did...He showed us an example.
But men forget the examples Of Christ and Do as THEY want because it pleases them to their OWN advantage.

You are quite right, we should live to be like Jesus. He was an example in every way for us. By living uprightly, we honor God and show Him that we love Him. It is not, however, a requirement to go to heaven. That price was already paid on the cross for you. Unless you are God, you cannot pay the price required to give an infinite life in a holy and sinless location. God, knowing that, paid it for you.

Baptism is not required?
Why is it then that He said .... "He who believes and is baptised will be saved" (Mark 16:16).
"Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptising them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit..." (Matthew 28:19).
"Truly. truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God" (John 3:5).

"But to all who received him,
who believed in his name,
he gave power to become children of God; who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God" (John 1:12-13).

St. Paul says: "Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death.
We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death,
so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father we, too, might walk in newness of life" (Rom 6:3-4).
Baptism is a requirement because it is instituted by the Lord Himself.
Unto Baptism one dies.
Upon rising from the baptismal font, one is re born as a follower of Christ.
Jesus Christ did not need to be baptized...But He did this as He did ALL things to show us the way...
"For as many of you as have been baptized in Christ,
have put on Christ" (Galatians 3:26-27).
"Therefore, if any one is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has passed away, behold the new has come" (2 Corinth 5:17).

A simple answer to your question is an example from the Bible. During the crucifixion, two thieves were near Jesus. One ridiculed Jesus, one criticized the one who ridiculed Jesus, and asked Jesus to remember him when He went to heaven. The repentant thief was given paradise. His hands and feet were nailed, and he was not baptized. You do not need to be baptized either. Millions of people have lived and died never being baptized. They will also go to heaven. To think otherwise would deny the mercies and love of God.

I have seen it. Don't sweat the small stuff here. Live for God, not because of commandment but because of what He has given you out of love.

Commandment of God....Yes, WE should live because of His Commandment...This is exactly why Adam and Eve fell away from God...They failed to see what God was telling them...The brought DEATH to themselves...and This DEATH continues...Death was not created by God, Death was BROUGHT into the world because of the falling away(SIN)
Jesus Christ destroyed DEATH ....Oh Death, where is thy Victory, Oh, death, where is thy sting'?

I agree with the above.
(removed some Bible quotes that we agree on)

The Bible has already been interpreted by Holy Men,Fathers of the early Church and regarded as Law...as was the Old Testament.

It is not for OWN interpretation.

13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; Col 2 Baptism is also an ordinance. In fact, the entire book of Romans is dedicated to removing the law and living under the grace (free gift) of God through Jesus.

Well, it is your responsibility to examine and prove the teachings true:
11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. Acts 17:11
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. II Tim 2:15

As for having another book written?
Would it not be ''just ANOTHER'' book?

ICXN
helen

I suppose we need to clear up the confusion created by so many voices.



[edit on 6/20/2009 by helen670]

[edit on 20-6-2009 by Jim Scott]

Originally posted by TheStev

Originally posted by helen670
The Bible has already been interpreted by Holy Men,Fathers of the early Church and regarded as Law...as was the Old Testament.

It is not for OWN interpretation.

And yet, Romans 3:23 tells us 'all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God'. Are we to assume that 'all' actually means 'everyone except the guys who translated and interpreted the bible'? There's miles between 'all' and 'most'. Food for thought.

Interesting that your only real gripe was baptism too. Frankly, I would have thought a God who made the universe would care more about the hearts and minds of men than a little holy water, but each to their own I suppose.

Kudos to the OP, a S + F. Nice to see a version of Christianity that isn't actually Paul-ianity.

Hi/
Yes, I stand that the Bible is not of OWN interpretation!
And YES,we ALL fall short of the Glory of God!
The Fathers that translated the Bible were of ONE opinion...they didn't simply translate into their OWN thinking.
If you like, the Bible is in the Original Hebrew and Greek....Go read it and give us your opinion!
Dont go interpreting OTHERS own fantasy translation!
Food for thought!

What is it with this Paul-inity?
Is it some NEW Modern Term for.......
''ANTI-PAULISM''???

Colossians 2:8-12 8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit,
after the tradition of men,
after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power....
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands(Baptism), in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

The Bible is the Logos(WORD) of God.

ICXN
helen

Originally posted by helen670

Originally posted by TheStev

Originally posted by helen670
The Bible has already been interpreted by Holy Men,Fathers of the early Church and regarded as Law...as was the Old Testament.

It is not for OWN interpretation.

And yet, Romans 3:23 tells us 'all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God'. Are we to assume that 'all' actually means 'everyone except the guys who translated and interpreted the bible'? There's miles between 'all' and 'most'. Food for thought.

Interesting that your only real gripe was baptism too. Frankly, I would have thought a God who made the universe would care more about the hearts and minds of men than a little holy water, but each to their own I suppose.

Kudos to the OP, a S + F. Nice to see a version of Christianity that isn't actually Paul-ianity.

Hi/

Yes, I stand that the Bible is not of OWN interpretation!

I fully agree here, and we should consider all the text, not selected texts. For example, if it states that Jesus came not to condemn the world (John 3:17) but to save it, and He will draw all men unto Him (see above) then if I were to say some men were not allowed because Jesus condemned them, that would be inconsistent with scripture, right?

And YES,we ALL fall short of the Glory of God!
The Fathers that translated the Bible were of ONE opinion...they didn't simply translate into their OWN thinking.
If you like, the Bible is in the Original Hebrew and Greek....Go read it and give us your opinion!

I agree and I have.

Dont go interpreting OTHERS own fantasy translation!
Food for thought!

These are not the ideas of others, they are mine.

What is it with this Paul-inity?
Is it some NEW Modern Term for.......
''ANTI-PAULISM''???

Colossians 2:8-12 8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit,
after the tradition of men,
after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power....
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands(Baptism), in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

The Bible is the Logos(WORD) of God.

ICXN
helen


So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. Romans 9:16
He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? Romans 8:36
For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. Romans 10:3-4

Jesus is the Logos (Word) of God, according to John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and Word was God" etc.

Bless you all.

Many people in the truth movement are coming to realize the evil situation we are in on earth, and the need for salvation.

People look for salvation in Religion, Technology, Witchcraft, Aliens, Illuminati, Secret Knowlege, The Self, Intelligence, Right Action, Politics, Meditation, Discipline, Military, Drugs, Money, Food, Positive Words.

And then they will scorn you if you find Salvation in Yahweh and his son Yahshua (Jesus).

David Icke talks about a spirit entity which guides his research, Jordan Maxwell talks about Aliens guiding him.

People can even attest to the historical accuracy of the Bible and still not receive the word. For example, I listened to this broad cast

Google Video Link

on video google and this guy expresses frustration at yahweh for interupting Nimrods building of the tower of Babel, which he thinks is a stargate. He thinks our salvation lies in Stargate technology.

Of coarse the Bible warns in Isaiah Chapter 14

13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. 15Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

I honestly think that Wiiliam Henry is correct I think there is Stargate technology but they will no doubt open the gates to Hell.

Luckily the New Testiment states

Matthew 16:18 (King James Version)

18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Yahshua Is Salvation.