Originally posted by Jim Scott
1. Under Christianity, there would be no wars. You would love your enemy, bless those who use you, etc. Therefore, all wars in the name of Jesus are false.

2. There would be no condemnation or judgment to hell. Jesus Christ said He died for the sins of all mankind. He paid for your sins, full price, and you have eternal life, guaranteed. No man can take that away from you. No church doctrine can take it away.

1. I have yet to hear or read of such actually happening. No one has quoted 'In Jesus....' for matters like war. It's either 'God's' or 'Lord's'

2. You are still required 'to change' 'to repent' though. Jesus still warned about hell and evil doers going to hell. Jesus delivered the message for us to be saved not that all humans are automatically saved.

Hi/

Christianity knows no emperor, no nation, no power other than that of God as its master.

If God was the one who instituted Kings,then would it not be that the Kings should do as God commands them to?

[color=Yellow]Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. 2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: 4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. 5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake. 6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing. 7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.[/color]
[snip]

While we are compelled to obey the law of the land we live in, by law, we are more than free of the laws of God in that His Son has obeyed those laws on our behalf.

True, we are to obey the Law we live in.
Wrong!
He DIED on our behalf...for no human being could take DEATH away...the first people Adam and Eve....You shall surely DIE if you do eat?
For DEATH was the punishment God gave...falling away from the commandment of God...To not eat of the fruit..

We too must OBEY the Teachings of the Apostles....handed down by Christ Himself.Why else would Jesus Christ do all these things?
It does not make sense!

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

***He might as well have come and told His Apostles...'' 'listen,just want you to know, Im God,I have done all that is necessary for your salvation..just go and do whatever,All is done by me..dont worry all is good''....
why did He choose to take Flesh and become one of Us?

John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Why did He choose to be scorned and beaten?

Isaiah 53:3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. 4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. 5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

Why did He allow confession to be instituted by His Apostles?

[snip]
1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. It is a way to test if you have the truth in you.

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye eat the flesh of the Son of God, and drink His blood, ye have no life in you.” “Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life: and I will raise him up at the last day.”...John 6,53,54...

Luke 22:19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. 58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

His flesh is the bread, the manna from heaven, the word.
His blood is His sacrifice of His life for your sin.
You must believe His word, and you must accept His sacrifice.

You mean to tell me that He said all that for the fun of it,doesn't make sense!
Also refer to John:6:27,69...Mathew:26:20_29...Mark 14,17-25.....Luke 22,14-38....and S.Paul 1 Corin 11,23-26...

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Since our disobedience requires a just and fair God to punish us for our sins, Jesus steps into our place and is punished for us because He loves us. We are not under the law, but under the free gift of forgiveness, which reconciles us to God. We can boldly go into the presence of God, as sinless as Jesus Christ, because our sin has been removed 100% by the justice of God punishing Jesus for us.

[snip]
Not that we are all SAVED by just believing in Him..
Thats not scripture.
[snip]

John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed?

ICXN
helen

Originally posted by Watchdog-Finland
And besides christian faith comes from Mithra and other religions what are more or less older than 2.500BC, so i don't catch up with this thread, and tell me this If there would be a God , such what the humans has created , would this planet look like this now?, NO it would not, so that is simple there is no such God as the bible says there is and the bible is human made there is nothing holy about it , the book is full of , Murder Incest and war, whats so holy about all that? nothing at all, why dont you understand this you have been lied to for the last 2000 years

Satan is an imitator. He will come as an angel of light. He will be a wolf in sheep's clothing. He is a deceiver. He will quote scripture to mix it with a lie. He will copy events, so the real event that eventually happens will mean nothing or distract from the true event. Satan was the first to plagiarize, steal ideas, and use them to mislead.

Incest and murder were not defined in the Bible until the time of Moses. It was permitted before there was a law forbidding it.

Wars are defensive and offensive. In the case of the offensive wars in Canaan following the crossing of Jordan in Exodus, annihilation of evil was necessary for the provision of good. We do the same thing today in hospitals. We kill bad bacteria so the patient will live.

Originally posted by ahnggk

Originally posted by Jim Scott
1. Under Christianity, there would be no wars. You would love your enemy, bless those who use you, etc. Therefore, all wars in the name of Jesus are false.

2. There would be no condemnation or judgment to hell. Jesus Christ said He died for the sins of all mankind. He paid for your sins, full price, and you have eternal life, guaranteed. No man can take that away from you. No church doctrine can take it away.

1. I have yet to hear or read of such actually happening. No one has quoted 'In Jesus....' for matters like war. It's either 'God's' or 'Lord's'

2. You are still required 'to change' 'to repent' though. Jesus still warned about hell and evil doers going to hell. Jesus delivered the message for us to be saved not that all humans are automatically saved.

Wars are not initiated by Christians, but Christians are men and women who want to defend their homes. While this is not the way of Jesus, it is impossible for man to stand idly by to witness the slaughter of his family or friends. Man is not expected to be perfect, only Jesus. Many of the guidelines given by Jesus were given to show the impossibility of being good. For example, never looking upon a woman to lust after her. Never hating someone in your heart. Jesus was saying you and I can't do it, only He could do it.

Mark 10:23 And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God! 24 And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God! 25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. 26 And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved? 27 And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.

All humans will be saved. Acts of righteousness are not needed. Believing on Jesus is needed. For example, here's a man whose hands and feet were unable to move to do any acts of righteousness:

Luke 23:39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us. 40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. 42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. 43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

You've failed. I asked you a simple question.

I suppose the smart thing to do is ignore it.

If you want to preach, prepare to be questioned.
I WANT THE PROOF. just a mindless drone.

good things here i like these and does questes i made are perfect.....

I liek the girl and her questes

Originally posted by ghaleon12
The thing I thought was strange was "choosing to go to heaven", it makes absolutely no sense at all. There is no "heaven", only pleasure, and no one willingly chooses to be in pain. So given an option of Heaven (pleasure) everyone would take it, it would literally be impossible to refuse it. That's part of the reason the creator does things the way he does, to give us free will so we aren't controlled since all we are are pleasure seekers.

Your assumptions are based on your freedom to choose what you want to believe. The Bible is a guide for your belief, and can be trusted to give you a good pathway to heaven. Reliability of the Bible is famous. It is the most authenticated, archaeologically-supported, consistent historical collection on earth. One of the ways you can see it is true is in predictive prophecy. For example, there are 333 prophecies that predicted the coming of Jesus -- how and where He was born, elements of His ministry, His purpose, and His death and resurrection. These prophecies were hundreds of years in advance. One that comes to mind is in Daniel, where the actual year of the coming of Jesus is predicted exactly, hundreds of years ahead. Only God knows the future with precision. Rely on His word to guide your life, and you have a solid rock for a foundation for your beliefs.

Some may refuse the idea of going to heaven here, but after they die and their mental and physical sicknesses are healed, and they see clearly the path of love provided for them by their loving and compassionate savior, Jesus, they will all accept this path except Satan.

Rom 10:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. Isaiah 45:22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. 23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

And, in heaven, with your free will, you will choose heaven.

[edit on 22-6-2009 by Jim Scott]

And now... the voice of pure experience. I posted this in the "Is God good or BAD" Thread- and I think it bears repeating.

Is God good or bad. Easy to see how BAD God is.

I prayed for 20 years for some basic human needs ( a sig other, a family, a normal, stable life). I got....

*My heart broken severely.

*Talents that make my friends stare in disbelief (arts, music, ect ect ect)- and Any and ALL attempts at use to enrich and further my life- screwed over in ways I cant even begin to explain.

* I am left on basic 'life support'- I have food, shelter, power, and yes- internet (who doesn't in some form or another unless you live in a mud hut- and even then....)- I am allowed only certain things in my life. Anything other than 'certain things' becomes an all out disaster.

* God's 'happy little piss ant followers' love to tell me constantly how "Blessed!" I am that I am LIVING. And then split hairs about how I can see, hear, ect ect. If this is living- let me DIE.

*These same SOBs like to then proceed to stab me in the back, as screwed as I am, and on top of insult and injury, get whatever their dark little hearts pray for- and then have every excuse ever heard- and invent a few extra on the spot- as to why THEY get good things, and I get left with a toilet full of week old *ahem* crap.

*Ask any person who has had their child die, or massive misfortune befall them how 'good' God is. Not convinced? Read Job- or as I like to call it " God hangs out in Vegas". Screws someone over- inflicts disease all over him, and when Job asks why... " BECAUSE I CAN, MORTAL!" Of course Job gets double back. You always do when you gamble..... Even when you're a pawn, evidently.

And this just isn't me. Think of how many millions go thru this, HAVE gone thru this- and only the real insane ones praise this capricious, uncaring deity for his 'love'.

Also- keep in mind- if God is 'good', WHY did God create a being he KNEW would turn evil- and then let this being have at it anywhere he wanted? It's like raising a kid to be a crook- but you're a 'good' parent. Or so you'd say...

See- I read all the pretty words in the dusty old book. I put them to the most severe test ever- When the woman I loved dearly left me for someone else. I prayed for YEARS to get her back- and watched my very life go down the abyss like a 2500lb lead cannonball thrown out of an airplane. I have had a front row seat to a woman, the FIRST woman in 20 years to actually show actual interest and feelings towards me get gravely ill and Then find out her home is being foreclosed on, due to the person responsible for payments (ex husband) just not doing it. This was DAYS after she told me how she felt. Now, we barely talk once a week.

I keep hearing about Jesus' love, and how he wants us all saved- but I SEE people who, like me- get the raw end of the deal, the messy end of the stick- and being told by those oh- so -wacky Christians they should be HAPPY they are being screwed like a $2 hooker. I have seen the Bible, and this stupid religion exactly for what it is- a way for the better to put their foot directly into the face of the lower, the downtrodden, the poor, the ill, and those 'not worthy'. There is no 'heaven' for people like me. The afterlife will belong to the rich and powerful, just like this world does. People like me STAY hurt, alone, and messed up, because GOD has decreed it! He 'lets' 'Satan' go have fun and do this because "He can, MORTAL!" It's nothing more than to give the masses false hope- so even when we're dead, we'll be serving the rich- It might just be a little more fun. Supposedly.

I can sum up Christianity in one word. Just one. Wanna know what it is?


ABUSE. I have proof coming out of my ears. Others experience it, but cant put a name to it- and no 'feel good, we're all going to heaven' bullpucky is going to whitewash the manure fence.

Originally posted by wylekat
[snip] Also- keep in mind- if God is 'good', WHY did God create a being he KNEW would turn evil

If God created a being that could not possibly turn evil, that being would not have free will. It is the free will that allows choices based on love. God chose to make a creation with love in it. For example:

Deut 13:1-4

for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.

I'm glad He didn't make me a robot.

Thing is- I KNOW abuse. What I have been put thru, or 'allowed' to be put thru by God is just that. Abuse. What you're being put thru is abuse.

All the pretty words on earth in any language mean complete and utter squat when the actions are the absolute opposite. You cannot call anything 'love' when you are beating, or trying to kill your child, and all the time saying "I'm doing this because I love you". You cant hire a bully to beat up your child and say it, either, and call it love. BECAUSE IT JUST AINT. No promise, no 'reward when I am dead' is going to make me just sit up and smile all broad- because I actually and honestly DO KNOW BETTER. I see nothing appealing about spending all eternity without a single relative, kid, or anyone else to say 'these are my (insert relation here)'. I am not going to be convinced how wonderful God is- because of what has been done to me. In fact, I'll keep lunging for the Almighty's jugular for the rest of my (un)natural life if need be for what has been done to me.

And BTW- that's about the ONLY decision I have been able to make!