Russia and Japan want serious response to N. Korea

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
reply to post by jfj123

 

if i'm a 240lbs bodybuilder with a black belt and a truckload of weapons that I designed and manufacturered and the alledge breaking into houses guy is a scrawny mal-nutrioned hungry man with a few a weapons and alot to lose, then no.

Ok let's not get nutty about this.
The reality is that no matter who you are, you can't be home at all times and even though you weren't worried about your personal safety, you would be concerned about your property. Again this is assuming you are a reasonably normal person.

Nothing to worry about.
Yes the guys is off his rocker
but he still has every right to do what everyone else is doing

Sure maybe in a perfect world, anyone could do whatever they liked but the reality is that sometimes dangerous people need to be dealt with before they pose a threat to the entire world.

to jsut say that israel is the only country to be allowed to have an unlimited amount of nukes is compeletely unfair.

1. This thread isn't about isreal.
2. They don't have an "unlimited amount of nukes"
3. Life isn't fair for the criminally insane all the time.
4. Is it fair for someone to hold the entire world hostage ?

Superpowers are allowed to be as nuked up as can be and everyone else must be sitting ducks or else it's time to attack is not a stance that should be supported.

With great power comes great responsibility

Originally posted by symmetricAvenger
reply to post by ModernAcademia

 

japan will indeed take matters into its own hands if it must.. and this will affect the USA as the very reason why japan has no nukes was because of the treaty and agreement after ww2

So you're basicly saying that if China and Russia don't react to the recent developments in NK, Japan will attack NK?

There's very little chance of that happening:

- 1st reason is because their constitution won't allow it.
- 2nd reason, there won't be much support for changing their constitution to allow such an attack.
- 3rd reason, the JSDF is not equiped well enough to carry out such an attack (as in numbers of harware) and to counter a NK (combined Chinese?) counter attack.
- 4th reason, the JSDF is not trained to carry out such an attack.
- 5th reason, the moment NK is attacked they might retaliate towards SK.

Japan could very well go nuclear though. They are considered a "nuclear threshold" state because they could conceivably manufacture a bomb in a matter of months if it chose to do so. They have the uranium, they have the technology, they have everything they need to do so and very quickly, they as of yet just havent had the need or desire. They have been under the US nuclear umbrella for decades. If however they feel the US would abandom them and if NK keeps getting stronger (nuclear-wise), then Japan will do what they must.

Originally posted by jfj123
With great power comes great responsibility

No with great power comes great corruption!
And these superpowers aren't spider-man, they're more like carnage

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by jfj123
With great power comes great responsibility

No with great power comes great corruption!
And these superpowers aren't spider-man, they're more like carnage

So your solution is to create more super powers that will create more carnage. Looks like you got trapped with your own logic....again

reply to post by jfj123


Equality is needed!
But I have a better idea than more superpowers
and that is Smarter Civilians!
People smarter than who they are today
People who fight for their freedoms and keeps their govt. in check

but that's just a dream

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
reply to post by jfj123

 

Equality is needed!
But I have a better idea than more superpowers
and that is Smarter Civilians!
People smarter than who they are today
People who fight for their freedoms and keeps their govt. in check

but that's just a dream

That's great and all but that's not what you said earlier.
You said NK should be able to do what they want which includes building nukes, which means they become another super power which also means according to you, they become more corrupt and thus shouldn't have the power.

So you've changed your stance COMPLETELY within only 2 posts.

So which statement are your wrong about?

reply to post by jfj123


If everyone is a superpower then nobody is a superpower

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
reply to post by jfj123

 

If everyone is a superpower then nobody is a superpower

Again, not what you said.

You're becoming pretty infamous for this.

The point is you've changed your stance to the polar opposite within just a few posts. So which is it?

reply to post by jfj123


I haven't flip flopped at all
please specify exactly what you want me to expand on

Originally posted by jfj123
That's great and all but that's not what you said earlier.
You said NK should be able to do what they want which includes building nukes, which means they become another super power which also means according to you, they become more corrupt and thus shouldn't have the power.

If im' right about what you tryign to tell me im flip flopping
You are saying that I am flip flopping saying that power corrupts but let NK be a superpower?

How did I not answer that with with if everyone is a superpower then no one is a superpower?

So as I said in a perfect world the people would keep their govt. check
Including your country and people
So as an analogy, if everyone is supermen, then nobody is superman, everyone is just a man.

So that's what will keep people in check.

Have you not seen more war and threats of war than ever?
That's because jsut like the line betwen the rich and poor is getting thicker and thicker so is superpowers and just other countries.

And to say that too many countries can have as many nukes as they want but not certain one is very oppressive.

Of course a better scenario would be a better leader than "little kimmy" for NK and for their to progress with their nuke programs.
But for them not being allowed to have nukes is still not a possibility with him

Superpowers are just acting like bullies and treating the planet like their playground and you are supporting them while they have their hands in your pocket, your family and your great grandchildren's pockets.

Put yourself on the other side of the fence for a second

[edit on 31-5-2009 by ModernAcademia]

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
reply to post by jfj123

 

I haven't flip flopped at all
please specify exactly what you want me to expand on

Here we go again.

ok.

First you said:

Nothing to worry about.
Yes the guys is off his rocker
but he still has every right to do what everyone else is doing

So you are saying that NK should be able to build nukes since everyone else is doing it.

Now here's where you contradict yourself

No with great power comes great corruption!
And these superpowers aren't spider-man, they're more like carnage

So here you're saying that countries with nukes are corrupt and shouldn't have them.

So which is it? They should have them or they shouldn't?

reply to post by jfj123


check the above edited response

Interesting views on this subject and very poignant! If memory serves, the US has a security partnership with Japan and South Korea. If they need our assistance we are compelled to offer it. I mean how long are the nations of the world going to sit back and take little Kim's provocations? Until they decide one night to launch a missle on Tokyo or artillery on Seoul? They just broke their involvement in the armistace from the Korean War. By doing such, they have renewed hostilities against the countries involved in that war. To me, this is as serious as the Cuban Missle Crisis and it shouldn't be taken lightly by any of the world leaders involved. This is where the rubber hits the road! I was in the service and I would not want to go to war with anyone but there comes a time when sanctions and diplomacy loose they effectiveness, and sadly, I believe we have reached that threshold.

reply to post by ModernAcademia
"Subsize North Korea's nuclear program, soon we'll invade.
Subsidize Pakistan's nuclear program and put musarraf into power now let's invade.
Bin Laden a former CIA agent, now let's attack an entire country where he is residing.
Install puppet govts. in Iran, now let's blockade them with an armada of warships."


And thats just recently. The last time we went to war with N. Korea it was based on a lie. 9/11 was allowed to happen so we could run a pipeline from the Caspian sea.(Not alot of people know this little fact to this day) Bin Laden was just a face we put on this fiasco. And the list goes on and on and on....
The people who are really running this country(Not Obama) are laughing at our ignorance.
And it causes me more than a little concern to know that their are religious fanatics(Israel,Pakistan) that have nuclear weapons as well and nobody wants to do a damn thing about them. The last time I traveled over seas(Europe) I was shocked to see how much anti-American sentiment there was. They are sick of America and it's war mongering ways yet we don't hear a thing about that on our MSM. I was so ashamed and embarassed I told people I was from Canada.
And now even with a New President our foreign policy has not changed one single bit. This is like a horrible nightmare. N. Korea is no threat to America. If anyone has to deal with N. Korea it should be Japan or China. We have enough problems right here at home.

Sorry Modern, but he just put you in check.
Im glad you arent running my country.

On Topic-

War with NK is inevitable. Its going to happen no matter who starts it, all that will matter is who will be in the fight with and against them. Countries can come together and name one country to be the one who startsit, while the others will be prepared to come in and assist them with whatever they need. The problem with North Korea is that they really dont have anyone that will have their backs. They burned the bridges that they had, and for them to come out like the way they have been recently is suicide. If Kim cared at all, he would hault his agenda rather than risking the the lives of his people.
Mark my words, if a war does happen with NK, China and Russia will not be there to help them. It makes no sense for them to get thrown in the middle of a fight that will only destroy their image right along with North Koreas.
It would also benefit Russia and China to stay out of it because all it will do is destroy our economy more and not theirs, they would probably be the beneficiaries of this war if they stayed out of it.
As far as Japan goes, I think that if they get involved it will be at the express wishes of the US. They wont do anything until they know that we have their backs, cause we are the ones who wouldbe protecting them.
In the End, North Korea will get theirs as long as they keep asking for it.

This is all speculation on my part though, its how I see it happening, just like all of the other wars.

reply to post by Freeborn


The Taliban can't do anything. It's a myth. The Taliban has around 10,000 members.

The gang MS 13 in America is 10 times more that amount, so fearing the Taliban is like fearing your hispanic gang.

The Taliban getting their hands on nukes is a total lie. It's a manufactured and generated lie to keep people worried and fearful because only then will they gladly send $100 million dollars to aid Pakistan via our tax money.

Frankly, I don't care what happens in Pakistan, and it's not our business. This is as if China invaded the U.S. to help us with the war on gangs in NYC.

Get real.

So continues the perpetual war we have been in since WW2. Hey look at the bright side a select few defense companies and the bankers bank rolling the warfare state are making some serious dough. To bad its at the expense of the brainwashed masses and the dead soldiers who have had to pay for it....

reply to post by tjeffersonsghost


Amen to that!
People really need to wake up and focus on the root of the problems
not just on facades that are being sold to them

facades
That's what got Obama into power
a big gimmicky word called "change" on a big piece of paper
never defining it just saying it was sufficient
this is no different
it's all distractions

reply to post by bobbylove321


Bobby i served 3 tours over seas, 2 in iraq and one in Afghanistan , you have NO idea what the heck you are talking about. If you arent going to do your research and contribute to the thread then please dont comment.

I wont even point out the fact that your post is completely off topic. Go back to opening your portals and trying to get a girlfriend with black magic.

That's funny to read all those crazy theories guys. Especially yours, Modern...

Do you really think China will let its neighbor create real problems ? Kim and friends represent the aggressive side of China's interests, and their mind games are aimed to test the Obama administration .

In the case of a war, I will use Hitler's own words when he talked about Russia 69 years ago : " the Russian system is like an old dusty house. Kick strong enough the front door and the whole structure will crumble "

So what would the " kick" look like ? that's the question my friends. Remember that the North Koreans are keeping alive the old Soviet system, and that the only language they understand is force. Unlike the Chinese, they can be smashed with no big consequences for the US economy, because money once again is what it's all about. ( but I'm afraid the Chinese won't let that happen and probably will remove Kim by themselves )

[edit on 31/5/09 by MattMulder]