Freemasons - Another child fingerprinting scam/fair

libertyforlife.com...

Morals and Dogma? What morals? Kill all the people you do not believe deserve to exist? Is that what the good of Masonry is for? Again, it was a good organization in the early years, but after Pike made it a luciferian society it all went to hell, so to speak.

On the 4th of June 1889 Albert Pike wrote a letter to the supreme councils of the illuminati:On the 4th of June 1889 Albert Pike wrote a letter to the supreme councils of the illuminati:


"To you, Sovereign Grand Instructors General, we say this, that you may repeat it to the Brethren of the 32nd, 31st and 30th degrees: 'the Masonic Religion should be, by all of us initiates of the high degrees, maintained in the purity of the LUCIFERIAN Doctrine. If Lucifer were not god, would Adonay (Jesus)... calumniate (spread false and harmful statements about) him?...Yes Lucifer is God..."(Albert Pike, A.C. De La Rive, La Femme et l'Enfant dans la Franc-Maqonnene Universelle, page 588.)

reply to post by daddio


Pike was called a poet because he WAS a poet. He wrote no such anthem for the KKK.
He was called a jurist because he was a jurist, and a lawyer.

As for the letter, where exactly do you find it exists? The sole claimed existence for it is a supposed mention from a fellow who wrote a book against Masonry and never mentioned it in his book. Albert Pike wasn't a Jesuit either, he was a Presbyterian.

Morals and Dogma is a good work on Philosophy, it has a lot in it about Brotherhood, dealing honestly, and, of course, the tenant of Masonry.
There's even a bit stressing against hiring Masons over more qualified individuals.


NOTE: The topic of this thread is the CHIP program. Most likely continuing in a discussion about Albert Pike will result in further warnings from a MOD, so it would probably be a good idea to start a new thread.

Sorry, I wasn't able to make it down to one of your shindigs. If you can, please send me some educational literature on how I can compile this material evidence on my own. It's not that I do not trust you with my child's personal identifying information, it's just that your wonderful volunteers can put their time to better use by helping other parents who do not know how to use a camera or a pair of scissors.

reply to post by SphinxMontreal


www.childidprogram.com...

This was posted earlier in the thread, but with all of the mess, it's well understandable for it to be missed.

There are also a number of sites on the web that have various versions of the same program offered, as well as information

Here's a site with a PDF you can print out and put all of the information on:
www.kidsdomain.com...

reply to post by SphinxMontreal


Well, it's certainly not like parents can't do any of this and to those with the inclination, bully for you. It's the ones who don't that MasoniChIP and other similar programs run by others are aimed at. It's all about facilitating the parents having the information should it ever be required.

And in case you haven't read the entire thread, all the information of every stripe (photos, dental impressions, DNA, etc) goes with the parents. Nothing, rien, nada is retained by the Masons.

HTH
Fitz

Anything that can help with the identification and saving of a child should not be met with scorn my friend. You need to open your eyes and see past your obvious hatred of masons. To attack the order like this is really showing that you are clutching at straws, it is a brotherhood of like minded men looking to network and share experience, as simple as that. There is no grand conspiracy here, ask yourself this look at the number of masons and ex masons in the world, if there was a grand consipracy do you not think it would have been leaked by now. You have either been rejected or removed by the craft or someone in your family has and you are feeling left out simple as that, do not attack something pure for nothing as you just make yourself look like a fool on a mission.

Peace out

reply to post by suzque66

Suz, even in the court of law the burden of proof falls on the accuser, not the accused. Claim all you want, but until you back it up with evidence, I don't have anything to rebut against.

The system has been in effect since the early 90s, it's been nearly 20-years and no Masonic kidnappings.

Hitler, extremely regilious, communists, Saddam Hussein, and other forms of tyranny have all been enemies of Freemasonry.

I wouldn't sue you, you are no real threat, just a talker. I haven't seen any real intimidation towards you, only from you. Hell, I've seen more intimidations from anti-Masons than from Masons (ie "Masons should die", "Masons should be forced to be on a public registry", etc.). I come here to dispel the lies against the Freemasons, not to convince the liars, but others on the site.

[edit on 30-5-2009 by KSigMason]

reply to post by daddio


IMO it is important to look at the rest of the book in reference to this... which is a book about a LOT of references to other religions not just present but distant past as well. He ties a lot of things together, many aspects of religion people have never even heard of through an exhausted effort of research. He does not see lucifer as a real being but rather symbolically (he also ties satan to other mirror images in other religions) the knowledge or perhaps the portion of our brain that allows us to be aware, the drive acquire knowledge and make decisions that impact the world from an- inner fire i guess you could say that sets us apart from the animal kingdom. I haven't read the book in a while and gave my copy away so I am speaking from memory... additonally it is important to also remember that pike was a mind in the past without benefit of modern scientific knowledge. Although this is not that important to someone frame of mind as pike's it is fair to say that since he was mason he was at least a weak agnostic or deist and had basically worked out the "human philosophy" of scientific drive into a philosophy of supernatural tones... I have mixed feelings about pike. He was really a smart guy and spoke so well (a shame we still don't have statesmen like that), but at the end of it I'm still like- ok, you've done all this to do what.. human progress.. so wtf get on with it. He could have devoted his intelligence to a more earthly benefit, but to each their own.

Originally posted by suzque66
When in your lifetime have you heard of ANY child (or even adult) being SAVED from knowing in advance of their fingerprint details or DNA being saved on any database?

It is likely that in MANY (if not all) cases of child abduction 1. the child is found too late anyways 2. The information necessary is gathered immed. after the person is reported missing or 3. No such tracking has been used to actually find a missing child (if so, why aren't they in the news??).

Are people that dense?

Showing up for free/cheap hotdogs and sodas and giving up their children like this, astonishing. Disappointing and astonishing.

They are well advised. It might be the best way of protecting one's offspring up to puberty, when their psychic energy is most coveted for cult ceremonials of a most sulfurous nature which those who go both relish and fear.

Lower masons out of the loop will disagree vehemently, to be sure. Having assisted in such ceremonies as a child, treated to ghastly and unsavory rituals in which other secondary children must play a role, it stands to reason that this program is to ensure that lodge "brothers" involved in the occult aspects of the trade don't mistakenly use mason's children for their distasteful acts. Don't ask, you don't want to know. I wish I could forget.

Enjoy earnest masons, those fooled by the lofty purposes, those indentured servants to their own ambition, those bonded by oath and blood, those self-impressed big fish in small ponds.

reply to post by Getsmart

And rituals do we use them in?

Yeah Getsmart, which Masonic rituals require children?

The inference you are making is despicable, and you should be ashamed of yourself. I hope that you listen to whatever vestigial conscience you still possess before posting such hateful garbage EVER again.

reply to post by Getsmart


You could be the "smoking gun"! It appears you hold the sacred knowlege that even lerned masons have missed. You have been to these high level meetings and used as a prop in the show. Wow. Alex jones should fly you out to his mansion and give you all kinds of goodies. You can expose the evil empire from the top down. Just Wow! And all you do is drop a quick post here? Realy? It almost seems as if you manufactured that story so people here might like you. Do you do that often? Drop some names and locations. Time, dates, proof. You won't because it's a lie.

edit to add: you have posted 130 times on ATS and only once on any thread pertaining to Freemasonry. (this one) Yet you claim to have been abused by masons. One would think that you might have said something a bit earlier.

[edit on 1-6-2009 by network dude]

Not all Freemasons think this is a great idea. Support-wise there are many other ways to support a community with more obvious positive effects. Marketing-wise using the word "CHIP" in this context is a bit misguided. Freemasons are well aware of what paranoids will think. Ethics-wise, its not ideal to take DNA-samples from children. They`re at an age when they have no say in the matter.

From reading the thread its obvious to me that some masons only support the idea in defense of the unfounded attacks they are getting, without thinking through whether its really such a genius plan. I've seen masonic projects that are much more helpful and well-thoughtout.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Not all Freemasons think this is a great idea.

No group ever agrees 100% of the time on anything. Does less than 100% agreement mean it's a poor idea?

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Support-wise there are many other ways to support a community with more obvious positive effects.

Which Masons do. MasoniChIP is just one outlet of many. And do all community supports need to be obvious? Weekend before last, a Lodge in east-end Toronto ran a MasoniChIP and had between 3-400 families turn out, many prompted by the recent disappearance of a little girl in southern Ontario.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Marketing-wise using the word "CHIP" in this context is a bit misguided. Freemasons are well aware of what paranoids will think.

Let's be honest, SF. Paranoids believe many wild and wooly things about Masonry without the slightest prompting. This entire thread is devoted to it. MasoniChIP rolls off the tongue pretty freely and what would you suggest as an alternative child identification program name?

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Ethics-wise, its not ideal to take DNA-samples from children. They`re at an age when they have no say in the matter.

As has been pointed out repeatedly throughout this thread, it's the parents that're retaining every bit of information. If one of these children goes missing and an unidentified body turns up at some later date, where's the issue?

Originally posted by Skyfloating
From reading the thread its obvious to me that some masons only support the idea in defense of the unfounded attacks they are getting, without thinking through whether its really such a genius plan.

I guess we're reading different interpretations into posts as I've yet to read a post that gives me that impression.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
I've seen masonic projects that are much more helpful and well-thoughtout.

I think if every project was viewed through the filter of the paranoid, nothing would ever get done for fear of inviting the castigation of the paranoid. Better to do good works that incur the wrath of the village idiot than to be governed by his opinion on the matter.

reply to post by Skyfloating

Why wouldn't all Freemasons support this? It brings together parts of the 3 Tenets of the Craft. Yes, CHIP isn't the greatest acronym, but should we change our direction over unfounded paranoia?

I understand the ethical dilemna with DNA swabbing. I am trying to get trained medical individuals to come to the events or have the parent do it. Plus in all this, the parent MUST sign a consent form otherwise the child cannot be processed.

This program is well thought out and planned. It shouldn't be the sole project of the Freemasons, but it's a good one.

Except that it instills fear that may turn into a self-fulfilling prophecy for parents and that it remains to be seen how many kids will actually be found through this, the idea does have some merit. I wont deny that. I'm just wondering whether there might have been other projects more effective and especially causing less knee-jerk reactions based on popular conspiracy-theory of the public eye.

Rather than lamenting this specific project though maybe I should lament a lax attitude toward image-improvement efforts throughout History.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Except that it instills fear that may turn into a self-fulfilling prophecy for parents

The concern of it happening either exists already with the parents or it doesn't. I can't see how you'd be making your kid more likely to be snatched by participating in a MasoniChIP-type program than not.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
and that it remains to be seen how many kids will actually be found through this, the idea does have some merit. I wont deny that.

It's information to help facilitate the authorities finding the kid. Do you think their odds are better or worse without a photo, fingerprints, etc?

Originally posted by Skyfloating
I'm just wondering whether there might have been other projects more effective and especially causing less knee-jerk reactions based on popular conspiracy-theory of the public eye.

The ones with the knee-jerk reaction typically have an axe to grind in the first place and MasoniChIP is just a means to an end. Conspiracy theorists are somewhat the exception in society and in real life, you can't allow yourself to be hamstrung attempting to satisfy those who will not be satisfied.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Rather than lamenting this specific project though maybe I should lament a lax attitude toward image-improvement efforts throughout History.

Really, Masonry has needed a profile-raising more than image improvement. The Boomer generation skipped being involved in their community by and large and the torch of interest in Masonry and other community-minded groups has been picked up by GenX and Y. So for a half-century, progressively the people who've focused the most on Masonry were the axe-grinders leading to a skewed perception.

The Internet and greater openness on the part of Masonry have done much to dispel the disinformation that's been been disseminated unchecked over the last four decades. Once people actually see and research for themselves what Masonry is all about, the ridiculousness of some of the assertions made about it become obvious.

reply to post by daddio


I'm a member of a masonic lodge. So are some of my friends and family. Do you want me dead? Would you like to explain to my children and wife, my mother and father why joining a fraternal order makes me a target of assassination in your mind?

reply to post by Oklahoma Mason


Mate, best not to go there. All it'll do is get you in trouble. If a mule insists on getting himself covered in mud, don't dirty yourself trying to pull him out.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Except that it instills fear that may turn into a self-fulfilling prophecy for parents and that it remains to be seen how many kids will actually be found through this, the idea does have some merit. I wont deny that. I'm just wondering whether there might have been other projects more effective and especially causing less knee-jerk reactions based on popular conspiracy-theory of the public eye.

Rather than lamenting this specific project though maybe I should lament a lax attitude toward image-improvement efforts throughout History.

No I think you should stick to your guns, you're on the right track (IMO).

Statistically, stranger abductions of children are the rarest of all crimes, despite the disproportionate amount of column inches that they receive in the media. Fear mongering? Deflection? Your choice.

The vast majority of children who die as a result of violent crime do so in their own homes, at the hands of their Mummy's and Daddy's.

This programme, however well intentioned, is no more that a pacifier or placebo, it is definately a waste of time and money in my eyes. Money and time that would be much better spent in community out-reach work that actually targeted those that need help and support to be better parents.