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Freemasons - Another child fingerprinting scam/fair

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posted on May, 27 2009 @ 08:30 AM
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Originally posted by suzque66
If I am fear mongling, then oh well.


Which speaks directly to the mindset at the heart of this waste-of-time 10-page thread of anti-Masonic junk.


Originally posted by suzque66
Then you are here to pacify the weak into believing your organization is a saviour sent from God.


No. Masonry's about making good men better and of greater use to their families and society in general. That's the modus operandi behind MasoniCHip because children do from time to time go missing (whether snatched by a stranger or [as is more likely] by a parent or other family member) and it makes more sense to encourage families to take the steps involved in MasoniCHip. Does it have to be the MasoniCHip program? Not at all. MasoniCHip just helps facilitate a process. But as a parent, it just makes more sense to me to pursue the ounce-of-prevention model rather than the pound of cure which is the alternate.

But hey: that's just my opinion. You may prefer the pound of cure.


Originally posted by suzque66
If you work for such 'organization' then you must believe in it all all costs, I understand your livelyhood demands that.


Positions like Ksig details typically are voluntary (as are the vast majority within Masonry). At best, there might be a small honourarium that comes nowhere near compensating the individual for the time and effort put in. But the Masons who do this aren't looking to make a "livelyhood"[sic] and if they were, they'd be saddly disappointed.


Originally posted by suzque66
Mine, on the other hand doesn't. I don't follow the leader to anyone, especially a group of grown men that wear costumes to sit around and bullsh*t daily like every day is Hallowe'en.


Well bully for you. You're independent and don't have to work with anybody at all. Charmed life you lead, I'm sure. As for the costume, if you ever put on an apron, the you're no different than the average Mason. If someone wearing a business suit puts you on such edge as to describe it as a "costume" then I really don't know what to say except I'm sorry to hear that.


Originally posted by suzque66
Your days of secret meetings in a treehouse above other should have been satiated by the time you were 11. The only difference now is that you all have cellphones instead of a dixie cup and a string. Grow up, become independent thinkers LOL.


Let me get this straight: in your estimation, we're either evil, database-maintaining "stinky old Mason" or else we're grown men who can't think for ourselves and long for the days of childhood? Would you like to pick one or the other and stick with it?

Oh and by the way? What exactly was your 'subtext' when referring to "a Rothchild" in this post? That wouldn't be something as contemptible as an anti-Semitic synonym for Hebrews?

Just asking.


Originally posted by suzque66
Many charities are frauds and the heads of such make outrageous salaries for doing little to nothing and using volunteers at the bottom level to do the actual work...that is is a fact.


And the vast majority aren't. So does this mean you're going to stop giving to all charities because there's the very occasional one that might be questionable? You familiar with the phrase "throwing the baby out with the bath water"?


Originally posted by suzque66
Charities have CEO's as do banks and automobile companies. Yet, we trusted these organizations far as a means of bread and butter (as well as our children's future and other social needs). Yes, nothing could happen to them, they would NEVER, EVER become corrupt..*rolls eyes.


So all CEOs are corrupt. 'K. Gotcha!



Originally posted by suzque66
Since you two ...or 4 masons (or mason wannabees, who knows, who cares?) are hell belt on being a thorn in my buttocks, you will be ignored for the mere fact that you are here as disinformants of an agenda you have no clue about because you are far too immature.


That's rich! You referring to the Masons (and a non-Mason and an ex-Mason) who've bothered to try to respond to your fact-free screed as "disinformants" while you prattle on like a 13-year-old girl with nothing more than apparently unfounded opinion about what you think actually goes on at a MasoniCHip station. You'll pardon me if I shake my head at your chutzpah.


Originally posted by suzque66
I don't follow the advice of 'internet doctors' and I certainly won't follow the 'I am a masonic leader'.


So contact a Lodge in your area or better yet, try the Grand Lodge of your state (because clearly you're in the States somewhere). Educate yourself. Get it from first sources if you don't believe what others here have told you.


Originally posted by suzque66
Again, you bark up the wrong tree if you think you will ever change MY mind.


Oddly enough, I expect that the first truth (and likely the last) you've posted in this thread




posted on May, 27 2009 @ 08:35 AM
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Originally posted by suzque66
If I am fear mongling, then oh well.


Oh and BTW? The it's fear mongering not "fear mongling". Fear mongering is what the likes of Alex Jones do.

HTH
Fitz



posted on May, 27 2009 @ 08:57 AM
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Originally posted by Albastion
A kit with DNA, fingerprints, and a dental impression won't find a kid that just went missing, and neither will any of that other crap that they are doing.


The kit is information. Information without action is useless.

With the information, the authorities have a number of different types of information that can be used to help in locating the child (Amber Alert, local and national media of all stripes, etc.) or if, sadly, it comes down to identifying remains, then the wherewithal is there too.

Without it, all bets are off.


Originally posted by Albastion
Not only can parents provide their own DNA, pictures, and videos, but they can get the dental impression from their orthodontist or dentist.


But much too often, they don't. MasoniCHiP and other similar programs are about facilitating the process so more parents do.

Full stop.


Originally posted by Albastion
In any case, this program in its current state is POINTLESS to help find a child that just went missing, which is why the ultimate plan of the CHIP program is to CHIP YOUR KIDS. DUH.


And you know this...........how exactly? Or is this fevered assumption?


Originally posted by Albastion
According to the guy in the article, IT WOULD BE GREAT if he could microchip his kids. Theres just SO MUCH DEMAND FOR IT!


The guy makes a joke and you pillory him. Nice.


Originally posted by Albastion
Simply post in this thread that the CHIP program never plans to microchip children, ever, because that would be a huge violation of the rights of children who would be unable to provide consent to being chipped. Will you do that? If so, I'm sure it would put people at ease a lot faster than pages and pages of senseless bickering and pseudo-debate.


There are those in this world (suze is a perfect example) who find it oddly comforting to believe the worst about people or groups despite the sense of the commons being quite at variance with them. They need that 'evil other' to validate their own existence. They'll bicker because not to do so would mean that they were wrong about something and their ego isn't robust enough that it can sustain being wrong about even one thing.



posted on May, 27 2009 @ 11:48 AM
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Woah smells like ego in here



posted on May, 27 2009 @ 12:24 PM
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So no mason is willing to state for the record that CHIP will never microchip kids? I'll give you some more time; but remember that I'm not asking for you to provide proof of anything, I'm just asking for someone's word, especially someone who admitted to being high up in CHIP. You guys DO believe that it would be immoral to microchip kids, right? Maybe you could offer your opinions on that. It seems like when you block quoted me you ignored that question completely. I'll answer your questions now, and maybe you will answer mine.

As for Masons doing weird stuff, you don't have to be a Mason to know that you get paddled on the ass and you pretend to shoot people and all that during ritual. I don't know the specifics but I've read enough news articles about people being hazed or accidentally shot to death during ritual to know that you don't just hang out and do charity work the whole time. It's enough that it seems weird enough to me, and that's just my opinion.


And of course I'm not 100% sure that you plan to microchip children eventually with your program, but when you have a program called CHIP (standing for Child Identification Program, why the H?), designed to find missing children, I'm sure most reasonable people would make the connection between microchips and finding missing children, since many people microchip their dogs. So I would admit there is an assumption being made but I would disagree that it is a feverish one, especially since the article itself specifically mentioned microchips, even if joking.

So if someone would please clarify:
Will CHIP ever put microchips into kids?
AND
Is it immoral to put a microchip into a child?



posted on May, 27 2009 @ 12:27 PM
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reply to post by suzque66
 


800 000 kids are stolen every year in states, most in new mexico and close to new mexico, where the most alien bases are, hello anyone !!! who are they kidding ; we cant have so many pedophiles...; they must be eating them what else could they do with them ; there are many of aliens and they are hungry for our kids



posted on May, 27 2009 @ 12:28 PM
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Originally posted by Albastion


So if someone would please clarify:
Will CHIP ever put microchips into kids?
AND
Is it immoral to put a microchip into a child?


No

AND

Yes, it is. Are you satisfied now or will I be accused of just telling you what you want to hear. And again CHIP is an acronym there are no microchips involved



posted on May, 27 2009 @ 12:33 PM
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Rothchilds are real Jews? and now I'm anti-semetic AND a mason hater??

lol wow

ya'll gettin desperate now. Soon it will be 8 Masons to 1 suz. it takes 7 Masons to argue with 5'1 suz? sad indeed.

and no I am not in the states, quit assuming LOL and DON'T ask where, we ain't gonna be doing any kumbiya-ing me and you either.

stick to the topic I said...this ain't about suz, this is about Masons collecting info on children yea or nay.



posted on May, 27 2009 @ 12:45 PM
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Originally posted by Albastion
So no mason is willing to state for the record that CHIP will never microchip kids?
Masonic Light did on the last page...


You guys DO believe that it would be immoral to microchip kids, right?

Immoral? No. Pointless, perhaps. Doing it against the consent of the parents would be wrong, but the act of chipping itself doesn't seem to be a issue of morality in my mind. Just one man's opinion. My dog and cat are chipped. If there were a good program in place that I believed would be effective, I wouldn't have a problem chipping my children either.


As for Masons doing weird stuff, you don't have to be a Mason to know that you get paddled on the ass and you pretend to shoot people and all that during ritual.

Neither is anywhere remotely close to being true in Texas Masonry. I can't speak to any other Grand Lodge's ritual, but I can state with authority that neither paddling nor simulation of death by gun-play is part of the Texas work.


And of course I'm not 100% sure that you plan to microchip children eventually with your program, but when you have a program called CHIP (standing for Child Identification Program, why the H?),


I don't know? Why was the 70's TV show about the California Highway Patrol called CHiPs? Where did the "i" come from? It's not unheard of to add extraneous letters to acronyms. (I know I've seen other, more common instances, but I can't think of any off the top of my head at the moment)



posted on May, 27 2009 @ 12:52 PM
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Originally posted by Albastion
So no mason is willing to state for the record that CHIP will never microchip kids?


Guess you must've missed this post.


Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by Albastion
Tell you what. If you will state for the record right now that the CHIP program never intends to plant microchips into children, then I'm sure most people would chill out about this whole thing.


I'll state it for the record. The CHiP Program never intends to microchip anybody.


Moving right along....


Originally posted by Albastion
As for Masons doing weird stuff, you don't have to be a Mason to know that you get paddled on the ass and you pretend to shoot people and all that during ritual.


Yeah, because if you were a Mason, you'd know that that isn't part of any Regular ceremony. Guess I must be subsuming any memory of being "paddled on the ass".



Originally posted by Albastion
I don't know the specifics but I've read enough news articles about people being hazed or accidentally shot to death during ritual to know that you don't just hang out and do charity work the whole time. It's enough that it seems weird enough to me, and that's just my opinion.


Which you're entitled to. Of course, nothing you've written is indicative of Regular Masonry but if you feel like tarring every Mason with the same brush, knock yourself out.

Doesn't make it correct, though.


Originally posted by Albastion
And of course I'm not 100% sure that you plan to microchip children eventually with your program, but when you have a program called CHIP (standing for Child Identification Program, why the H?),


Because MasoniCIP doesn't flow very well compared to MasoniChIP (not to mention that it wouldn't give the CTs something to glom onto).


Originally posted by Albastion
designed to find missing children, I'm sure most reasonable people would make the connection between microchips and finding missing children, since many people microchip their dogs.


Since there's no chip involved (as has been stated repeatedly in this thread and every time it's 'discovered' anew by some newbie CT), the connection's a non-starter. Most reasonable people would actually have informed themselves and read-up on the program rather than go straight-from-the-gate to full-speed conspiracy. But that'd be reflective of most reasonable people. YMMV


Originally posted by Albastion
So I would admit there is an assumption being made but I would disagree that it is a feverish one, especially since the article itself specifically mentioned microchips, even if joking.


One goofball jests and this is fodder for a conspiracy?


Originally posted by Albastion
So if someone would please clarify:
Will CHIP ever put microchips into kids?
AND
Is it immoral to put a microchip into a child?


Asked and answered.



posted on May, 27 2009 @ 12:53 PM
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reply to post by Albastion
 


if you look on the last page, there is a towel for that egg on your face.

"I'll state it for the record. The CHiP Program never intends to microchip anybody. " -Masonic Light

While my statement doesn't realy count since I am not high ranking enough, I will state the same. Masons do not intend to put any chip into any child. Masons didn't even come up with this program, They are just trying to help with it since it seems worth while.

Suz, please don't think that my posting here is in any way trying to offend you. I don't want to make you feel like you are being ganged up on. But your post did ask a question about this program. We don't keep the data. The hospital does keep the data, if you have ever taken a child into one of those vile places. The school system does keep yours and their data, but you would know that since you worked at one. If you fill out one of those super saver card things at the grocery store, yea, they keep your data. So the choice is to go through life afraid of every unknown corner, or to exlpore the unknown with wide eyes.



posted on May, 27 2009 @ 12:54 PM
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Originally posted by Level_Head

Originally posted by Albastion


So if someone would please clarify:
Will CHIP ever put microchips into kids?
AND
Is it immoral to put a microchip into a child?


No

AND

Yes, it is. Are you satisfied now or will I be accused of just telling you what you want to hear. And again CHIP is an acronym there are no microchips involved


Even though I don't know for sure if you are involved in CHIP like I know for sure the other guy is, I'll still say thank you, that's all I wanted. Maybe someone should put a disclaimer about microchips on some brochures for the program so when people come to protest your public service you can pass it out and show them that it's no big deal. Obviously if people are posting articles about your program on websites like Infowars there are going to be lots of people thinking all kinds of stuff about it and you could do a little bit to help dispel some of the speculation. Thanks for addressing my concerns about CHIP.

And Suz, sorry for calling you a dude, I knew for sure all of the masons had to be dudes so I just collectively referred to you all as dudes. I should have said dudes and dudettes instead



posted on May, 27 2009 @ 01:01 PM
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Comparing hospitals and schools saving data and comparing Masons now? lol

Masons have no business in the typing of children's names into anything, hospitals and schools on the other hand DO.

Don't compare apples and oranges.

Can you get your Mason daddies in here because you kids just aren't cutting the mustard with me.



posted on May, 27 2009 @ 01:04 PM
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Missed MasonicLight's post, sorry!

I know you masons probably are offended by this thread, but in reality it is doing you a favor. All you have to do is link anyone who has concerns about microchipping to this thread and you can end the discussion right there because now you have lots of Masons stating for the record that chipping kids is wrong and it would never happen, which makes you guys look good. I don't know if you realize this, but this thread will let you quickly and convincingly close the topic on microchipping kids and the CHIP program if it ever arises in the future. So please understand my motivation: instead of wasting your time dealing with this topic over and over, you can just link to this thread and move on to bigger and better things.



posted on May, 27 2009 @ 01:05 PM
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Originally posted by suzque66
Comparing hospitals and schools saving data and comparing Masons now? lol

Masons have no business in the typing of children's names into anything, hospitals and schools on the other hand DO.

Don't compare apples and oranges.

Can you get your Mason daddies in here because you kids just aren't cutting the mustard with me.



you really are trolling aren't you



posted on May, 27 2009 @ 01:07 PM
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Trolling for an adult to answer the main questions, ya.



posted on May, 27 2009 @ 01:10 PM
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See, that's the thing. It has been stated here many times what the program is and that there is no actual chip. people just choose not to read and claim anything coming from a Mason as disinformation. So either way it is a loosing situation for us. Its is obvious what the program is about, all you have to do is ask. That's what i don't understand. Its one of the most simple concepts in life as well Masonry. Ask and you shall receive. We have no reason to deceive you.



posted on May, 27 2009 @ 01:11 PM
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Originally posted by suzque66
Rothchilds are real Jews? and now I'm anti-semetic AND a mason hater??

lol wow


Well, you definitely have issues with Masons and in my experience, I've only seen Rothchild being used as an anti-Semitic work-around. If I'm mistaken in your case, my bad.


Originally posted by suzque66
ya'll gettin desperate now. Soon it will be 8 Masons to 1 suz. it takes 7 Masons to argue with 5'1 suz? sad indeed.


Knock yourself out. Since you seem to be just trolling anyway, you're going into killfile as far as I'm concerned. 1 less Mason to pay attention to your fact-free screeds.


Originally posted by suzque66
and no I am not in the states, quit assuming LOL and DON'T ask where, we ain't gonna be doing any kumbiya-ing me and you either.


I guessed wrong; so be it. Doesn't really change the underlying point I was trying to make anyway. If you're interested in actual answers as opposed to the fear-mongering that Alex Jones lives by, you'd contact a Lodge and/or the Grand Lodge of the jurisdiction you live in. If not, whatever.

Not my hobby horse to ride on.


Originally posted by suzque66
stick to the topic I said...this ain't about suz, this is about Masons collecting info on children yea or nay.


You've been repeatedly told nay (not that it seems to have registered). In fact, Jaaman (who IIRC has no love lost insofar as Masons are concerned) appears to have actually looked into things and satisfied himself that things aren't amiss as Alex Jones would have you believe.

But if believing anything negative about Masons that someone spoon-feeds your way satisfies some empty spot in your life, so be it.



posted on May, 27 2009 @ 01:18 PM
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Twice wrong in one post by your assumptions about the personal suz instead of the topic-talking suz. Get over suz.

If that other guy was satisfied by an answer, I should follow the leader and also be? If he likes broccoli, I should too?

I am not going snooping under tables at a Mason fair lol, who are you kidding. Think they'd appreciate me asking to open on of their computers? Take the hard drive home?

The only thing Alex Jones has to do with my distaste for Masons is that he had the current news update on the latest fair going on at this time. Whether I like him or not is not your business. If you want to diss him personally, do that on your own time, not mine.



posted on May, 27 2009 @ 01:19 PM
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reply to post by Level_Head
 


When I started posting I was cognizant of the fact that you return all the data you get to the parents and keep none of it. When I posted I also knew there isn't a chip _now_, that was never my question. It was really the ethical issue of chipping kids in the first place, and the concern that eventually the CHIP program might start chipping kids. You all have stated very clearly that it is wrong to chip kids, so that means there is no reason for the CHIP program to ever chip kids in the future. Problem solved, case closed. If anyone wants to bring it up again, link here.

As a side note, "seek and you will find" -- nothing is more true.



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