Couple's 'buy black' experiment becomes a movement

Originally posted by Question
reply to post by HunkaHunka

 

Typical ignorant liberal garbage "blacks are different than us DURR! They have different hair than us! DURR!"

Really?

Black afro hair style
black afro

White afro hairstyle
Whtie afro

On a side note, my father in law had hair so curly during the 70's that he could pull off an afro just as "black" as the blacks at the time too.

black corn rows
black cornrow

white corn rows
whtie cornrows

By the by, I do know and have known black women that have straight hair as well, so I'm sorry, your logic completely flawed as hair texture has NOTHING to do with skin color, so much as it has to do with genetics. Oh, by the by, genes don't differentiate between black and white the way you do.

With the amount of prejudice you show on your post alone, And you liberals say we conservatives are the once with racial issues? please get over yourselves!

Why do you think I mean straight vs curly?

I'm not talking about style... I'm talking about oil vs no oil. You see most black folks need to Add oil to their hair or it dries out and breaks off. Whereas my hair creates it's own oil.

And I didn't say it had to do with skin color either, I said it was a genetic thing. However skin tone is ALSO a genetic thing.

And how is this prejudice? Prejudice is assuming I can send my wife to the same barber I go to and all will be good.

I don't think you understand the differences which exist between peoples in general based not on their individuality but on their collectivity.

reply to post by StellarX




It's nothing to do with community spirit, these people are choosing who they buy from on the basis of race, so this IS a race issue and these people ARE being racist, I don't care how the politically correct amongst us dresses up this situation.

I know one thing, if these people were white it would without question be seen as racist by the same people who are saying there is no racism in this current situation.

It's like when people say ''positive discrimination'' is not racism, when it is.

Originally posted by 27jd

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
Ok then I have to completely apologize... I was saying that there are different cultures and thought you were arguing that there weren't any real differences.

There are differences, mainly in appearance though. The problem with that is, that's the first thing ANYBODY goes after when they are mad at somebody who cuts them off in traffic, their physical differences. We are all racist in a way, because I'm sure we ALL do that, whether we admit it or not. The difference is if you conciously exclude or include somebody from something solely on their skin color or race, or if you HATE people who look different and feel your race is superior. Those are the forms of racism that are destructive and divisive, and this couple is doing exactly that, regardless what spin is put on it. Where they spend their money is really not my business, but when they come out and pat themselves on the back for being racist, it makes me mad.



[edit on 13-5-2009 by 27jd]

Amen... THAT is what I am saying... if poorly.

Originally posted by jackieps1975
reply to post by 27jd

 

I think we have more tradition than culture per say. IMHO, America embraces all cultures but in and of itself is more based on our own original traditions than an individual American Culture. Our culture has been in absorbing and embracing that of our occupants. I hope this makes sense. I'm not feeling especially eloquent today....lol

That makes a lot of sense.

There is a huge difference between traditions and cultures. America has a lot of traditions which over time have become part of American Culture.

Of course this doesn't mean I stop celebrating Samhain, I just also celebrate the 4th of july.

Originally posted by 27jd
I have to say, of ALL the black people I know and am friends with, more than I can count so by Chris Rock's definition I am definitely NOT racist, I haven't seen ONE of them display even a little "African" culture, in fact they have been assimilated to the same euro "traditions" we have (thanks jackieps1975, i agree with what you said). They have NO connection to the tribal cultures of Africa.

Yes now your argument against mine is more on-topic.
I see your point, but it's not entirely correct.

Firstly if you look at Jamaicans, you will have a hard time finding a jamaican in North America that considers himself american. He will always consider himself Jamaican no matter where he lives and always follow Jamaican culture even if it's been 6 generations since his family have lived in North America.

Secondly, i'll assume that you don't know alot of black people, maybe a few but not alot.

Many african blacks still keep themselves up to date on african news, because well many of them still have family over there and they want to keep their origins not only in blood but also in mind.

You don't see white caucasians often that were originally italian keep up with italian news or anything like that. In fact, lol, if you ask many of these people(maybe not on ATS) they will deny that they originally come from Italy. They'll say whatt???? Italy? no i'm american born and bred.

Do you see the difference now?

reply to post by HunkaHunka


Ok... there are more details to a black persons hair GENERALLY. Back on topic....

However, on the topic which is a black couple stating it is ok to only purchase from black establishment only (excluding all other minority) instead of minority only (which would mean inclusion of all minority).

[edit on 13-5-2009 by mhinsey]

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
Prejudice is assuming I can send my wife to the same barber I go to and all will be good.

Why shouldn't it be? Why should a salon that has white people working in it not have the essential oils needed, or the training to understand the differences in beauty school? Is it really so difficult that white people just can't do it right? I doubt that. It's just that blacks generally won't give them the chance, so it's not worth the money to buy the product that will just sit on the shelf. But the fact that you have a black wife, and yet you deny that America is the melting pot of cultures, is a bit confusing...

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Yep, and some of us will go to great pains to let you know how Norwegian or English we are.

For example, my Great Grandfathers both came over from the Old world. One in 1850 another in the Early 1900's.

American culture has always been an alien thing to me. One that I have learned to enjoy, but not one which I would call "my culture". It's just not a natural thing to me.

There are lots of cultural identifiers which are tied to genetic tendencies, and the hatred of these is the root of racism. The embracing of the diversity however is just logical.

Originally posted by 27jd

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
Prejudice is assuming I can send my wife to the same barber I go to and all will be good.

Why shouldn't it be? Why should a salon that has white people working in it not have the essential oils needed, or the training to understand the differences in beauty school? Is it really so difficult that white people just can't do it right? I doubt that. It's just that blacks generally won't give them the chance, so it's not worth the money to buy the product that will just sit on the shelf. But the fact that you have a black wife, and yet you deny that America is the melting pot of cultures, is a bit confusing...

Nope its the "one size fits all mentality". We have tried and tried but never found a salon that didn't specialize in "black hair" which could actually do anything with her hair without damaging it.

I know, you would think in a post modern society that would be the case, but in the small rural areas of Ohio, there just aren't enough black folks for the beauticians to know the difference.

reply to post by HunkaHunka


Yes exactly!
I agree with pretty much all your posts here.

I don't see how people can't understand it, but then again maybe I can
I guess they don't want to see it maybe.

The worst part of it all is that they want to destroy what they don't understand.

I'm reading some posts here saying everyone should just mix, whites and blacks, chinese and french and that would abolish "differences".

That's a horrible idea
That would destroy many different facets of cultural beauties
even to the point of hurting tourism

Instead of trying to understand other points of view, let's just abolish it?

Humans man, it's sad that we have so much to learn from animals.

This is idiotic and just continues to separate the races. Who gives a sh*t what color a merchant is other than a racist? All I want is good service and product at a good price.

I'm sure if a white couple decided to start a movement to purchase only from white retailers, they would be crucified by the media. I'm absolutely sick of this double standard.

Dr King's dream will never be realized as long as people are classified by the color of their skin.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
Firstly if you look at Jamaicans, you will have a hard time finding a jamaican in North America that considers himself american. He will always consider himself Jamaican no matter where he lives and always follow Jamaican culture even if it's been 6 generations since his family have lived in North America.

I didn't think there were many blacks in jamaica until they were brought to N America, so by extension, the jamaican culture is a direct result of white influence, as well as rastafari, a variation of christianity....

Secondly, i'll assume that you don't know alot of black people, maybe a few but not alot.

Guess you didn't read my above post, I know ALOT. My general practice doctor is black, and he teaches martial arts and owns a dojo.

Many african blacks still keep themselves up to date on african news, because well many of them still have family over there and they want to keep their origins not only in blood but also in mind.

None of the black people I know have ever eluded to that, and they are actually quite a bit different than actual Africans, in appearance they look like a completely different race.

Do you see the difference now?

No, like I said, I know and am friends with ALOT of black people, and none of them give a rats arse about Africa, not since the 90's when wearing a leather Africa on your neck with rasta colors was cool...oh yeah and backwards pants, lol....

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

You don't see white caucasians often that were originally italian keep up with italian news or anything like that. In fact, lol, if you ask many of these people(maybe not on ATS) they will deny that they originally come from Italy. They'll say whatt???? Italy? no i'm american born and bred.

Do you see the difference now?

That in itself IS that persons culture. They are proud of their AMERICAN heritage. They are proud their great-great someone or other came over on some ship and created their American life.

I am extremely proud to be an American, however, I would never treat a French or Italian person any differently than here - except maybe not using some rude hand gestures as I have read they mean different things in their cultures ( the birdie means F you in America but means Let's get it on in Italian).

I was raised having an Indian grandmother. I learned of that heritage because of her. I have a grandfather that was adopted as a child. No telling his complete heritage but I am extremely proud of him and my grandmother for going against the norm back then when he fell in love with a "filthy" indian as it was usually said back then. Note my grandmother was a beautiful woman and my pappy not so cute... so that is great also. My grandmother wasn't superficial.

I love the cultural diversity that is America. I just have a problem with a culture tries to assert it's belief that it should have a more mainstream view than any other culture. NO news source should have reported this blatant if subtle racism. Go black or you aren't empowering the black man... blah blah.

Stop worrying about empowering any RACE and worry about empowering a nation and we will be A-OK!!

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
reply to post by HunkaHunka

 

Yes exactly!
I agree with pretty much all your posts here.

I don't see how people can't understand it, but then again maybe I can
I guess they don't want to see it maybe.

The worst part of it all is that they want to destroy what they don't understand.

I'm reading some posts here saying everyone should just mix, whites and blacks, chinese and french and that would abolish "differences".

That's a horrible idea
That would destroy many different facets of cultural beauties
even to the point of hurting tourism

Instead of trying to understand other points of view, let's just abolish it?

Humans man, it's sad that we have so much to learn from animals.

Yep. Part of the issue is that America is so separate from the old world that many of us don't have the ability to reach out and touch the cultures from whence we came. When you do that, you find all sorts of traits that you identify with.

it's one thing to respect and appreciate a cultural trait that doesn't belong to you genetically, it's a completely other thing to feel the sense of identification and validation that comes when you begin to understand your own cultural heritage going back hundreds even thousands of years. Very liberating.

Originally posted by 27jd
I didn't think there were many blacks in jamaica until they were brought to N America, so by extension, the jamaican culture is a direct result of white influence, as well as rastafari, a variation of christianity....

Not really, just because they rastafari is an abrahamic religion and has alot of similarities with christianity doesn't mean their entire culture is like yours.

Originally posted by 27jd

Guess you didn't read my above post, I know ALOT. My general practice doctor is black, and he teaches martial arts and owns a dojo.

Ya so..............
lol, the corner store across the street from my house, the cashier is korean
doesn't mean I know alot about Koreans
hahahahaaaa

Originally posted by 27jd
None of the black people I know have ever eluded to that, and they are actually quite a bit different than actual Africans, in appearance they look like a completely different race.

Then either you don't know alot of blacks, contrary to what you say
or you just don't know them that well.

No, like I said, I know and am friends with ALOT of black people, and none of them give a rats arse about Africa, not since the 90's when wearing a leather Africa on your neck with rasta colors was cool...oh yeah and backwards pants, lol....

Most of them care about Africa
You really must not understand them

And backwards pants?
That wasn't even a big trend, that was started by Kriss Kross
it lasted not very long at all and most people didn't wear it outside either much

Seriously, you must not know many blacks im sorry

Where do you live?
Do you only know blacks that live in the city and dress a certain way?

I'm sorry but everything you say tells me you don't know blacks well.

reply to post by mhinsey


The issue here, is that America hasn't been around enough to create a culture which is related to one's heritage.

There are no "Americans" in the sense that there are "French" and "Italians".

American is a term of a nation, whereas French and Italian describe gene pools as well as nations.

The analog here is that Norwegians are akin to Cherokee in so much that they were tribes conquered by the dominant empire of the day. Traditions were handed to them, which did not replace their actual cultures.

American does not describe an indigenous people or culture as much as it does an emerging nation and traditions which may some day become a culture of a "people"



[edit on 13-5-2009 by HunkaHunka]

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Firstly if you look at Jamaicans, you will have a hard time finding a jamaican in North America that considers himself american. He will always consider himself Jamaican no matter where he lives and always follow Jamaican culture even if it's been 6 generations since his family have lived in North America.

That must be why Colin Powell and N.Y. Gov. David Paterson have dreadlocks. And of course Patrick Ewing and Louis Farrakhan never miss a chance to talk about their Jamaican heritage while in the spotlight

reply to post by Snisha


Excellent POST!

4 people represent an entire culture.
You are a prophet and a philosopher.

And yes, you cannot represent Jamaica without dreadlocks.

I wish I met you long ago smart man.

EDIT: Star for you!

[edit on 13-5-2009 by ModernAcademia]

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
reply to post by mhinsey

 

The issue here, is that America hasn't been around enough to create a culture which is related to one's heritage.

There are no "Americans" in the sense that there are "French" and "Italians".

American is a term of a nation, whereas French and Italian describe gene pools as well as nations.

The analog here is that Norwegians are akin to Cherokee in so much that they were tribes conquered by the dominant empire of the day. Traditions were handed to them, which did not replace their actual cultures.

American does not describe an indigenous people or culture as much as it does an emerging nation and culture.

[edit on 13-5-2009 by HunkaHunka]

Then I guess we will have to agree to disagree because you and I see culture very differently. That is like saying that Creoles are not a culture within the US. They are an offshoot of French and I am not sure what else but they are intensely proud of their heritage and culture as Creole as much as French heritage if not more so.

I feel the same way about being from Alabama. There are connotations of the stupid redneck but there is so much more. The gentle and kindly assistance when you need it or generally the helpfulness that can be found in any small town in Alabama. Or the weird conversations that can range from weather to racism in 1/2 sec to the topic of how to grow the biggest squash. THAT is a culture... maybe just not one you appreciate as much as I. Just because it hasn't been in place for more than a century does not make it any less a culture.

And, no, I don't worry about ethnicity because I want to know the person not the look of the person. I respect their cultural background whether it is "new" or "old world" as referenced previously by another.

I don't connect with other European cultures because the South is such a unique and diverse culture in itself. It is a contradiction in every sense of culture in regards to ethnicity, background, socializing, etc... In every way. It is a culture with many micro-cultures which is why IT IS A CULTURE. You are acting bigoted that since you are of Norwegian or European descent makes you somehow better. It doesn't. It just means your granddad's came from somewhere else. I bet they are both or were both very proud to be an American. It means you are of Norwegian or European descent.

I am an American and being Southern is MY CULTURE even if you think we haven't been around long enough to "exist" as such.

Originally posted by mhinsey

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
reply to post by mhinsey

 

The issue here, is that America hasn't been around enough to create a culture which is related to one's heritage.

There are no "Americans" in the sense that there are "French" and "Italians".

American is a term of a nation, whereas French and Italian describe gene pools as well as nations.

The analog here is that Norwegians are akin to Cherokee in so much that they were tribes conquered by the dominant empire of the day. Traditions were handed to them, which did not replace their actual cultures.

American does not describe an indigenous people or culture as much as it does an emerging nation and culture.

[edit on 13-5-2009 by HunkaHunka]

Then I guess we will have to agree to disagree because you and I see culture very differently. That is like saying that Creoles are not a culture within the US. They are an offshoot of French and I am not sure what else but they are intensely proud of their heritage and culture as Creole as much as French heritage if not more so.

I feel the same way about being from Alabama. There are connotations of the stupid redneck but there is so much more. The gentle and kindly assistance when you need it or generally the helpfulness that can be found in any small town in Alabama. Or the weird conversations that can range from weather to racism in 1/2 sec to the topic of how to grow the biggest squash. THAT is a culture... maybe just not one you appreciate as much as I. Just because it hasn't been in place for more than a century does not make it any less a culture.

And, no, I don't worry about ethnicity because I want to know the person not the look of the person. I respect their cultural background whether it is "new" or "old world" as referenced previously by another.

I don't connect with other European cultures because the South is such a unique and diverse culture in itself. It is a contradiction in every sense of culture in regards to ethnicity, background, socializing, etc... In every way. It is a culture with many micro-cultures which is why IT IS A CULTURE. You are acting bigoted that since you are of Norwegian or European descent makes you somehow better. It doesn't. It just means your granddad's came from somewhere else. I bet they are both or were both very proud to be an American. It means you are of Norwegian or European descent.

I am an American and being Southern is MY CULTURE even if you think we haven't been around long enough to "exist" as such.

Oh I agree a lot with you regarding cultural identifiers in local areas. But this isn't "American Culture" This is as you put it, either Creole (which really does have a people associated with it) or some other localized tradition.

My analog is from an Ohio farm community. There is definitely a tradition there which has been forming since the French and Indian wars, and most there have a French or German descendant. But these are families which have lived in the same way and in the same area for at least 250 years. I mean EVERYONE is related there. It's tough to date in school because everyone are cousins it seems like.

Still though, this is not AMERICAN CULTURE. They are emerging cultures which, left to their own devices and enough people re-seeding the culture might eventually turn into an actual "people".

My point, there is no "over arching" American Culture. AND if you can trace your traditions through a couple hundred years at least, then you MIGHT have yerself a culture. Otherwise it's just adopted traditions.