IIG's investigation of the Billy Meier HOAX, page 2
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ATS Members have flagged this thread 23 times


reply posted on 15-4-2009 @ 10:22 AM by Frankinmouse
reply to post by Indigo_Child

You do not have to be a menber to join the forum, if you don't have a membership number then just write "no" in that section as it instructs.
Enjoy.


reply posted on 15-4-2009 @ 10:25 AM by easynow
reply to post by Indigo_Child


Possibly, although the original investigators of Meiers case looked at all the toy stores in Meiers area they did not find another ray-gun similar to this. An interesting feature on the ray-gun is the apendage that runs from the bottom of it. I have never seen a toy like that.


that's because he made it himself...the handle or hand grip looks like a paint gun handle. he probably added the rest and that's why you can't find a duplicate.


It's not actually.


how can you be so sure that it's not on a string ? where you there when the photo was taken ? i find it totally illogical to defend this picture when in fact you were not even there. that makes no sense.


However, if it really is on a string, then why is this video from the 70's still yet irreproducable


it's not irreproducible...most people accept the obvious evidence that the majority of his story is B.S. so no further proof is needed.

even if someone did reproduce it...the advocaters of this story would still be in denial, so why bother ?





did you even look at this post ?...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

meiercase.0x2a.info...


here is JRitzmans reproduction ...





























[edit on 15-4-2009 by easynow]



reply posted on 15-4-2009 @ 10:38 AM by mystiq
reply to post by Indigo_Child


I don't believe the earth was made for 500,000 million people. This is guessing on their part, the black ops and cartel. They've done something criminal and many saw them doing it, my family talked about it for years. They turned manufacturing into a complete exploitation of the planet and the public. Appliances and items used to last for a lifetime, such as a good solid perkelator coffee pot which my grandmother still has, now they break down right on the warrantee, except for my coffee pots, which I guess don't have warantees. They go around 3 a year, filling up the garbage dumps. They all leak right a way. We have been subject to massive abuse for a long time.

Furthermore, oil and natural resources never had to be exploited like that. Tesla's work notwithstanding, other solutions have abounded in the last century such as solar, wind, wave, geothermal, hydropondic greenhouses, recycled sod homes, underground homes which reduce the energy costs needed to heat or cool them (though try getting a permit for this! Good luck!)

Tribal people have been kept down and underdeveloped and countries that were gradually emerging to democracies sent back to fascist regimes in the middle east, south america and all around the world by the US/UK and other developed countries jackyls. They must have their slaves.

Developed countries have, due to their economies and health care programs and equality for women, less than 0% population growth (Canada is less than 0% except for immigrants), or just around and above.

In other words, this isn't something you can dump in the laps of the world, this is a crime. I look around and I don't see problems, not global warming problems, not de-forrestation problems, not depletion problems, not population probelms, because all these problems have had nothing but solutions found for the last century. Problems with solutions are not problems. Problems with solutions that are deliberately buried and not implemented by a corrupt greedy cartel are crimes beyond belief.

Is 7 billion too many people? We all think so! But if we changed our leadership and got rid of patents and ownership and adopted different solutions we could get this down to around 5 billion, then 4 gradually, without anyone suffering, by creating economy and jobs (if we're monied, I support the moneyless resource society akin to project venus but under a proportional democracy model akin to the Scandinavian countries) by becoming caretakers and fixing and repairing this planet and ecostructure and developing products and technology that is clean, and doing it in all the countries so they all benefit equally and become developed, with good health care.

The solutions have always been here. The problems have been shoved down our throats by the neocons to their benefit.

I don't believe that the nordic/pleiadians promoted a 500,000 limit cap on population that just so happened to coincide with the nwo idea. I think they're the same because they come from the same source.

I definately don't believe in his religious documents that are anit-gay, and therefore controlling. Thats what all the religions are like, a blueprint of control. Ets do not penalize people for their sexual preferences, nor do they resemble the control freaks in the scriptures, unless they're renegades such as the Enki/annanuki/cartel group. That shows the nwo preferrence to control people through religions, something ets actually speak against in some of the experiencers accounts.

[edit on 15-4-2009 by mystiq]

[edit on 15-4-2009 by mystiq]


reply posted on 15-4-2009 @ 10:48 AM by Indigo_Child
that's because he made it himself...the handle or hand grip looks like a paint gun handle. he probably added the rest and that's why you can't find a duplicate.


Billy Meier seems to be an excellent and multi-talented craftsman. He can build UFO's, fabricate unknown metal substances, engineer sounds, all with one arm. The man deserves an award

Your arguments contains too many "probabilies" Yes probably he made the ray-gun himself, and probably he didn't. Probably, he added a paint gun handle to it and probably he didn't. You see probably gets us nowhere.

Again what do you expect an ET gun to look like?

how can you be so sure that it's not on a string ? where you there when the photo was taken ? i find it totally illogical to defend this picture when in fact you were not even there. that makes no sense.


We are talking about the videos in the OP. The replica is a tiny model on a string from a fishing pole right in front the camera and has a swingy motion that is consistent with a string. Meier UFO is large has a smoothe bobbing motion that is consistent with an object riding a magnetic field, it is very distant from the camera and suspended very high above the ground. Where exactly is the string?


it's not irreproducible...most people accept the obvious evidence that the majority of his story is B.S. so no further proof is needed.

even if someone did reproduce it...the advocaters of this story would still be in denial, so why bother ?


It has not been ever reproduced and there have been several attempts to reproduce it including by Karl Koff. The experts who have vigorously analysed it state themselves that they cannot produce these videos, including special effects experts from Hollywood. They say they would have to go to modern CGI because it is impossible to do this with models.

If you are serious about investigating this case this kind of evidence cannot be ignored because it is the crucial to the case.

[edit on 15-4-2009 by Indigo_Child]


reply posted on 15-4-2009 @ 11:14 AM by easynow
Originally posted by Frankinmouse
reply to post by easynow


I wasn't going to but I'll debunk this for you then you can stop regurgitating other peoples mistakes and assumptions and do some research yourself or at the very least stop making inane comments on this subject.

This is supposedly a carpet tack that fell off the model, then why does it appear in these two other photograps in different locations in exactly the same place on the object, has the carpet tack the uncanny ability to sense when a photograph is being taken and is afraid of being seen in the picture so falls off in fright landing on the deck of the object in a place it feelsa safe and secure OR is it a part of the ship. My bet is it's a part of the ship.






There debunked.



your funny thanks for making me laugh

is this a "inane comment"....

the CARPET TACK was stuck to the interdimensional pleiadian warp drive engine... and he took some more photos...big deal !

There...Re- Debunked ...... your turn














[edit on 15-4-2009 by easynow]



reply posted on 15-4-2009 @ 12:10 PM by Nightchild
reply to post by mystiq


Are Meier and his supposed contacts really Anti-Gay? Or is it just a rumour? Have to ask, as I have never heard about that before, regarding the whole case around him.


reply posted on 15-4-2009 @ 12:15 PM by easynow
reply to post by Frankinmouse


Easynow, well done you have disproved the Meier case. I congratulate you. Stellar piece of investigation that you have cut and pasted there.


yea kinda looks that way don't it ?

how bout you cut and paste some proof that the Meier case is for real ?

so far you ain't shown anything but the same Regurgitation that gets repeated time and time again.

prove your not a hypocrite and show us something new...like your expecting and accusing me of not doing.





reply posted on 15-4-2009 @ 12:20 PM by Frankinmouse
Originally posted by InfaRedMan
Originally posted by Frankinmouse

Easynow, well done you have disproved the Meier case. I congratulate you. Stellar piece of investigation that you have cut and pasted there.


Well come on then.... debunk the image that easynow has provided. It doesn't matter where it's sourced from. You sourced images too. What a lame argument. Surely if Meier is irrefutable, you can show us 100% why that is not a part of the Meier ship! Can't you?

IRM


Ok, first I sourced and image which I had noticed evidence which refuted IIG's "smoking gun" evidence of deception mainly that a supposed tack had fallen off the object ,as it appears in other photographs in different locations photographed at different angles it is unlikely that it is an object that has fallen off and more likely a part of the object. This is all I am claiming.This fact was never mentioned anywhere before so I can reasonably say I did a little investigation myself not just cut and pasted somebody elses work.
Secondly of course I can not say that the other image is 100% not part of the ship any more than anyone else can 100% prove it is. Meiers evidence is not irrefutable,it's not supposed to be otherwise the world would be forced into accepting a new way of thinking instead of growing into it gradually as is occuring and will continue to occur over time. The fact that people are still arguing over this 30 years later was the purpose the evidence was given in the form it was, to provoke controversy and allow people to investigate for themselves the reality of the case and it's message. It's fairly obvious that it's working as was intended.

Peace


reply posted on 15-4-2009 @ 12:20 PM by Indigo_Child
There is an excellent documentary on Billy Meier's case produced by his organization which presents some remarkable evidence which either most people at ATS have not seen or have overlooked.

You can access the documentary here:

www.guba.com...

I will present parts from this documentary for each piece of crucial evidence:

Ray-Gun

I think so far on ATS most of us just seem to recoil at the sight of the ray-gun itself because it is not what we expect and because it looks like a toy, and indeed that was my initial reaction when I saw it and its the reaction of most investigators, however as we cannot possibly know what an ET ray gun would look like, our objection to it is moot. There is however other evidence about the ET ray-gun which either we don't know about or seem to overlook.

Watch the following segment of the documentary around 61:43 - 64:50

The following is revealed

1. The original investigators searched every toy supplier and every store for Meier's ray gun. They also searched costume and clothes suppliers for an outfit for the gold-foil like suit as well as look for materials that could appear like it. They found nothing.

2. The hole that was allegedly burnt into the tree that Meier shot at(which is still parched) had an oval hole which went right through the tree, it was smoothe as glass, and there was no drill that can drill an oval hole found.

3. The investigators tied a string around the trunk of where the hole was and then went as far back as possible into the forest. They found that everything in the line of that string through which the alleged ray passed was parched, and the twigs broken in between as if a ray has passed through it.

Metal Sample

I mentioned earlier that IIG had lied about the metal sample evidence. They said that Marcel vogel claimed he knew the composition of the metal by using an electron scanning microscope and then debunk it by saying it impossible to know the composition of a metal with an electron micorscope:

First, let us discuss the claim that a scanning electron microscope could be used to determine the composition of the metal sample.

Even using magnification far greater than what Marcel Vogel used in his analysis it is still impossible to view the elemental, chemical, or atomic structure of an object using a scanning electron microscope. The resolution of the scanning electron microscope is simply not high enough to image down to that level. In fact, increasing the magnification of any object using any form of a microscope will not tell you what the object is made of. In order to determine the composition of an object you need to use a process such as


They lied. Marvel Vogel never said he used the electron miscroscope to determine the chemical composition of the metal sample, instead he used spectroscopy to determine the composition. He then used the electron scanning microscope to show evidence of micro-engineering.

Watch segment 64:55-66:30 of the documentary to see Marcel Vogel presenting his results of his analysis

The following is revealed

1. There is no terrestrial technology that could manufacture this material proclaims Vogel

2. The metal is an alloy containing mostly rare metal Thulmium, silicon, copper,silver and iron in a very tiny specimen

3. When observed under an electron miscrope the metal showed evidence of microengineering, discreet diagonal marks and horizontal marks on a micro-level.

Meiers Videos

As mentioned earlier Meier's videos are irreproducible to date. All of his videos show the UFO's to be very high above ground, they all have a characteristic bobbing motion and they are very distant from the camera. There is no evidende of strings or wires or any kind of support.

Watch segment 40:49-53:35 for some of the best videos of UFO ever taken

The following is revealed:

1. It is very clear these UFO's are suspended a significant altitude over the ground in most of these videos and the sky is clearly visibile. Where would the strings be?

2. The UFO's make sudden movements or disappears and reappears from one spot to another without a frame missed. Special effects experts and video experts from Hollywood and Kodak have analysed this and confirm there is no cutting - this is all happening in real time.

3. The UFO's are clearly of large size and not small models, and they even have lights on them.

4. All the UFO's have the characteristic bobbing motion which cannot be produced with a string, which if used would produce a swinging and shaking motion.

I hope you have appreciated my research and presentation. This is that hard evidence we've always demanded on ATS. It is surprising why we would overlook such hard evidence. This is possibly the best evidence ever gathered for the phenomenon of UFO's.

[edit on 15-4-2009 by Indigo_Child]


reply posted on 15-4-2009 @ 12:28 PM by Frankinmouse
reply to post by easynow

How about taking your head out of the debunking hole for a little while and actually reading through some of the original material and the original investigations.

I'm off now thanks for the stimulating conversation.


reply posted on 15-4-2009 @ 12:38 PM by easynow
Originally posted by Frankinmouse
reply to post by easynow

How about taking your head out of the debunking hole for a little while and actually reading through some of the original material and the original investigations.

I'm off now thanks for the stimulating conversation.




how about you get your head out of the shoving this down everybody's throat hole for a little while and stop assuming i haven't read the material you claim is proof.

i see you won't be providing anything new for us to see.. as i expected, so go run off and hide because you have proven yourself to be a hypocrite and until you present something NEW here in this forum...nobody should take you serious.

you had my attention...but you failed ..too bad


reply posted on 15-4-2009 @ 01:00 PM by Indigo_Child
Originally posted by Frankinmouse



Ok, first I sourced and image which I had noticed evidence which refuted IIG's "smoking gun" evidence of deception mainly that a supposed tack had fallen off the object ,as it appears in other photographs in different locations photographed at different angles it is unlikely that it is an object that has fallen off and more likely a part of the object. This is all I am claiming.This fact was never mentioned anywhere before so I can reasonably say I did a little investigation myself not just cut and pasted somebody elses work.


I think one thing that has irrefutably been established in this thread that IIG is not a credible organization and has been demonstrated to have lied and misrepresented Meiers evidence on several occasions. This is not skepticism, it is a mockery of it.

I have found that IIG seems to rely on one common fallacy: if it looks vaguely similar, it's the same.

1) The dinosaur looks vaguely similar to the illustration
2) Asket looks vagues similar to the performer on the Dean Martin show
3) The reproduced UFO look vaguely similar to Meier's UFO

This is a fallacy. If they are indeed claiming that they can reproduce or trace the source of Meiers evidence, they need to do it exactly. This is the law of indescernability of identicals in formal logic: if x is y, and then x has exactly same properties as y. It is patently obvious that IIG's reproductions do not have the same properties as Meiers originals and thus IIG is peddling a hoax itself.

The same has been done with the Wedding cake UFO. They claim that the part sticking out from the UFO looks similar to what is sticking out from a trash can lid and therefore they are the same. Here is the evidence they overlook.

Again the documentary I cited in my previous post. Look at segment 55:00-57:15

It reveals

1. The original investigators estimated the object to be at least 10m in diameter

2. A top metallurgist has said that it take $25,000 to build the thing

3. The UFO's underside has a very inticattely designed bottom with very fine perbutations in it which seem to emit light or energy. This is interesting because most UFO's underside is often described to be aglow.

I think what is clear from the above is that this is definitely not a trash can lid with some embellishments, and if a model, an incredibly large and ambitious model with intricate design features which would would require a hollywood budget to build.

[edit on 15-4-2009 by Indigo_Child]


reply posted on 15-4-2009 @ 01:03 PM by Frankinmouse
reply to post by easynow

Ok last post , This is a forum, I'm not shoving anything down anyones throat, this is what forums are for. You are the one claiming that the case is a confirmed hoax, this is simply not true. Your argument for these particular photo's is that it "looks "like part of a bin lid was used, that dosen't prove anything. Unles someone recreates the object and the circumstances and subjects them to testing all it proves is that it looks like something.
Anyway these arguments always come down to the fact that there is a small percentage of Meiers photos that people are unhappy with and they ignore the fact that there is a mountain of other evidence and don't bother with it. None of it proves the case 100% conclusively, its not supposed to, even the evidence that could have done it (the metal samples) dissapeared ater analysis. But you cannot say that you know for sure that the case is a hoax based on some pictures you don't like the look of.

The topic of this post originally was debunking IIG's investigation, I did exactly that in my previous post, I found something that IIG claimed and pointed out something that refuted that. I don't think I was being hypocritical. .
I apologise for being a bit nasty in my previous post
Peace


[edit on 15-4-2009 by Frankinmouse]
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