IIG's investigation of the Billy Meier HOAX, page 3

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reply posted on 15-4-2009 @ 01:17 PM by mystiq

reply to post by Frankinmouse

There are many who look at things that do discredit Billy Meiers, and some have given him the benefit of the doubt about these things, because he could very well have been forced to discredit himself by the cartel. This is possible. It's even possible that the things I criticize, that seem to only serve Enki's group, may not truly be his message. Perhaps he was compromised.
The photographs really never interested me as much, they never do. The eye witness accounts and testimonies given by visitors oh his property were far more convincing to me. Yes, there are anomalies with his case that suggest there is something unusual going on there.

But I'm an experiencer and the population number is not relevant to our situation as much as how we manage our resources and share. How much we share, or don't share is very important to our et visitors and in fact is one of their criteria for judging us and determining whether we're a failed experiment or worth saving. Ie. ccoperation and ensuring not a single child goes hungry in this world and people pull together and are not treated as slaves with all advances made to benefit the all would be a good thing for them to hand in reports about. Sadly, this is not the case.
Et's aren't homophobic. In fact, they don't have the same hang ups about sexuality that we do, or there wouldn't be as much strange dna work going on with people, or reports of extraction machines looking like beautiful nordic seductresses.

One of things emphasized is our need to grow in psi abilities, mind, and heart.
We need to compassionate each other, not judge each other. Ets are extremely advanced. They are spiritual rather than religious, and spirituality is a personal choice and a personal growth, not a societal mandate with prejudice against minorities.

So if he was truly an experiencer, then he's allowed an Enki compromise to take place.

[edit on 15-4-2009 by mystiq]

reply posted on 15-4-2009 @ 01:28 PM by Indigo_Child

I want to try and play devils advocate and see if I can explain how Meier, the one armed farmer, created his evidence:

The Ray Gun:

He has some kind of special laser drill which he invented himself with which he drilled an oval hole in the tree. He then took a piece of string tied it around the trunk and went back and used the laser to burn everything on the way in such a way to make it look like he has a laser gun!

The Metal sample:

He invented a new metal alloy in his shed. He obtained the rare metal Thurmium, and silicon, iron, copper and slver and then in a metallurgical process he discovered(and since has not been rediscovered) he smelted them together. Then he sneaked into a research lab at night and used their electron scanning microscope to observe it, and somehow obtained nanotechnology(maybe he found it scattered in the same research lab) to engineer it!

The beamships:

He brought in Hollywood in his conspiracy to build huge UFO models with intricate design and lights. He then used his portable huge crane to suspend them dozens of feet above the ground and the bobbing motions, well there must be an explanation for that. Perhaps using very advanced robotics on the crane which can mimik bobbing motions. As for the sudden movements and disaappearances and reappearances... sorry can't explain that, maybe he also invented dimensional-shifting technology in his shed?

Or maybe, just maybe.... He is just a one armed farmer telling the truth?

[edit on 15-4-2009 by Indigo_Child]

reply posted on 15-4-2009 @ 01:34 PM by Frankinmouse

reply to post by mystiq

Eh..I'm not sure what to say to you Mistiq, I have no idea who "Enki" is although I'm betting he's some alien controlling the government or something like that. Personaly I don't believe in any of that or other similar stories as there is absolutely no evidence to back it up other than hearsay or channelers and the like which are less reliable even than hearsay. This topic is about debunking the IIG investigation of the Billy Meier case.
Peace

reply posted on 15-4-2009 @ 01:45 PM by Nohup

For starters, all I would like to see is a clear video, or even a photo, of one of these ships landing or landed on the ground, with one of these aliens coming out of it or even standing next to it, maybe touching it. That doesn't seem like much to ask. After all these years, with all the photos taken, there must be one like this, no?

Clear. The highest resolution possible (After all, the photos are so nice and clear, are they not?). Landing or landed. Alien next to it, touching it. Simple.

Oh, now I've gone and responded in a Billy Meier thread. Something I hate to do, because it accomplishes even less than my usual nothing.

Away I go.

reply posted on 15-4-2009 @ 02:00 PM by Frankinmouse

reply to post by easynow

Definatetly last post on this, here is something new for you and no it does not prove anything it is just an interesting possible corroboration to Meiers beamship sound recordings from two seperate sources, one by two policemen in 1981 and another by a woman who recorded a strange deafening sound that appeared to come from nowhere outside her house last year.

www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...

[edit on 15-4-2009 by Frankinmouse]

reply posted on 15-4-2009 @ 02:03 PM by mystiq

reply to post by Frankinmouse

There are some good threads that give clues to the history of this planet and our leader/cartel's fascination with all things Babolynian or Sumerain. The Star Gates ones: www.abovetopsecret.com...
and www.abovetopsecret.com...

and one of my favorites: www.abovetopsecret.com...

The Terra Papers preceded Sitchin's work, but the whole enki/enlil annanuki thing seems to have plagued our bloodline leaders for a long time here. They don't seem to be serving us. And the religions that have led to many wars, and much primitive behavior are a tool they promote a lot. The cartel are representatives of the Enki controlling group, or the annanuki to me.
Really doesn't matter what you call them actually, but our galactic visitors aren't like this at all. Billy Meiers came out with information that was too rigid and controlling for him to be merely passing on a message from pleiadians/plejarens whatever he wants to call them, or nordics. There is too much credo in his message, not enough universal love, sharing, equality, non-judgment, and cooperation. Its not about starting a new age religion thats anti-gay or anyone.

I feel that something is happening in his life, and his property has activity that reminds me of James Gililand's ranch. Its a question of what and why?

reply posted on 15-4-2009 @ 02:45 PM by Indigo_Child

reply to post by Nohup

The contacts ended around 1995. So no more evidence will be forthcoming. So we can only work with what we have, which is a lot in my opinion. ET metal samples, physical trace evidence, 200+ witnesses, dozens of videos and hundreds of photos and 2500 pages of contact notes containing a wealth of information in high detail.

The Pleaidians never wanted to give too much evidence that it would become irrefutable. What you mentioned of a UFO coming down, landing and then a Pleadian walking out and perhaps saying something in their native language would be pretty much proof. The Pleadians never intimated they want to prove their existence, if they wanted to do that they could just land in times square. All they wanted to do was awaken people by giving tid-bidts of evidence, so people can reason it out for themselves or perhaps they were interested in how we would react.

I have noted too many times on ATS that many people are not prepared to reason from evidence, but demand proof. I'm afraid proof is not possible. We can work from what is available and NOT from what we want.

[edit on 15-4-2009 by Indigo_Child]

reply posted on 15-4-2009 @ 02:51 PM by Indigo_Child

reply to post by mystiq

How much we share, or don't share is very important to our et visitors and in fact is one of their criteria for judging us and determining whether we're a failed experiment or worth saving. Ie. ccoperation and ensuring not a single child goes hungry in this world and people pull together and are not treated as slaves with all advances made to benefit the all would be a good thing for them to hand in reports about. Sadly, this is not the case.

I have noticed you are speaking on behalf of all ET's almost if you're there spokesperson. Have you ever considered the possibility that some ET's may not do as you expect them to do? Some ET's maybe less about love and peace, and more about science and logic? Still, some maybe more about war and control. If you read Meiers contact notes, especially the spiritual notes, the Pleaidians are a very spiritual people but rational and pragmatic at the same time. You're not expecting all ET's to be beacons of love and light are you?

reply posted on 15-4-2009 @ 03:11 PM by mystiq

Actually, this is kind of a mission that springs out of my experiencers. This is what my groups are about promoting in people. And quite a few people. I have several friends who are experiencers, and what springs out of them is the same thing, the moneyless resource society, and a need for waking up, teaching others, cooperation, etc etc. This seems to be part of the experience, it has been for me. As for all ets, there are probably stripes of loyalties involved; not all groups are good. But I'm starting to feel most of the ets people are experiencing are.

From Bill Holden's message in his interview with Jim Spark's by Project Camelot that we need to increase our heart and mind. To Jim Spark's mission of environmental protection of the rain forest, the lungs of the planet, to many of my friends knowing drawn to the moneyless resource society, and to me this is one of the biggest feelings of mission I have, along with our need to ask them for help and develop our spiritual/psi natures, not our religious ones. One of my friends who experiences memory loss writes amazing stuff, and its up to him to contribute it to the world, but I knew right away were he was getting this. We need to become caretakers of the planet, and helpful to all people. This is the heart of the et message.

I don't know if its going to save us, but it is going to save some of us in our current bodies, and many more, in or out of body so to speak. The role is teacher.

reply posted on 15-4-2009 @ 03:22 PM by Nohup

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
I'm afraid proof is not possible. We can work from what is available and from what we want.

Sorry, that might be good enough for you, but not for me. I know I can be fooled by my own expectations and prejudices. I want to eliminate all of that. And if the aliens are of the opinion that my belief is more important than them providing proof positive, that faith is more important than truth, then I guess "never the twain shall meet."

Like I said before, nothing gets accomplished in these posts because no new information or data that might provide the positive proof - that irrefutably connects Point A to Point B - is ever provided. There's always an excuse. The dog always eats the homework. Believers will continue to believe, and doubters will continue to doubt.

reply posted on 15-4-2009 @ 04:30 PM by NightVision

The jury is out for me on the Meier Case as some photos look outrageously fake and other look impossible to duplicate. Both Jeff Ritzmann and IIG attempted duplication and, in my opinion, didn't pass muster. I would love to attempt a duplication myself, especially in the areas where Meier claims to have seen the craft.

[edit on 15-4-2009 by NightVision]

reply posted on 15-4-2009 @ 04:36 PM by NightVision

There is also a 3rd option which is rarely contemplated. Meier may have intentionally discredited/made fake photos to draw attention AWAY from himself. Unlikely, but still a small probability. It would explain why some photos look so convincing and others like model toys.

reply posted on 15-4-2009 @ 04:49 PM by Indigo_Child

reply to post by Nohup

We don't have conclusive proof that 1+1 = 2, but I'm pretty sure you accept that 1+1=2. The problem I find with discussions on UFO/ET/Ancient civilisations/NWO and every other conspiracy subjects is that all discussions reach an impasse because somebody will always demand proof. Do you think if people actually had proof, that it would remain a conspiracy theory? No it would become a conspiracy fact. Henceforth all we can work from is available evidence and come up with explanations consistent with the available evidence.

Ironically, it is always interesting to see the inconsistency in demands for proof. While one may demand the moon for some claims, they will readily accept other significantly weaker claims. There cannot be a 100% conclusive proof for anything mate, not even in science, actually especially not in science. All we can do is come up with an explanation that best can explain the available data and that of course requires powers of reasoning, testing hypothesis, refining hypothesis. I can see why that puts off a lot of people...

Can you explain Meiers UFO's? If you cannot, does that not mean they are genuine UFO's?

reply posted on 15-4-2009 @ 04:50 PM by Aspie

I love it that the Meierites have no problem quoting from Michael Horn's website and use his stuff to support their case, even using his new film as evidence that this story is true. Meierites have no problem taking Horn's version as gospel, yet they will easily attack anyone who tried to investigate the case and comes up with opposing opinions.

Horn's film should be renamed 'The Blatant Evolution of Lies'. Everyone who has ever had any personal dealings with Horn knows this man is a compulsive liar, constantly distorts the truth, forever dodges questions, and is a down right nasty piece of work when you try to challenge him.

reply posted on 15-4-2009 @ 05:06 PM by Indigo_Child

reply to post by Aspie

I am not really attacking IIG, but exposing their lies and I have demonstrated quite clearly that they have lied repeatedly on Meiers evidence and most of their investigation is based on strawmans. Most people have noted that they did not reproduce Meiers photographs and they did not submit them for scientific scrutiny.

As for Michael Horn. I don't know the guy personally, so I don't know if he's a compulsive liar or not. I am not a "Meirite" I have no association with him, nor am I member of Figu, I just happen to find his case very interesting and fascinating, as I am interested in many UFO cases. I just happen to think that Meier has been misrepresented by IIG and it is malpractice and should be exposed, so people can evaluate Meiers evidence for themselves, rather than being told, "He's a hoax, nothing to see here" because there is a lot of evidence that has not been examined properly and no case should be closed without proper examination.

[edit on 15-4-2009 by Indigo_Child]

reply posted on 15-4-2009 @ 05:10 PM by Nohup

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
Can you explain Meiers UFO's? If you cannot, does that not mean they are genuine UFO's?

That's simply false logic. Just because I don't know how a magician does his trick, does that automatically mean it's not a trick, but real magic? All I can do is return to the person making the claim and see if they have something independent and indisputable to prove it. Something simple.

Here's another simple request that can be done with the available evidence. Although there were supposedly "hundreds" of photos taken, all these years most of us have only seen a few dozen at the most, over and over again. Even the official site only has a couple dozen photos on it, and all of those are in very low resolution. Would it be too much to ask for somebody, after all these decades, to properly organize and catalog the photos and negatives, and provide everyone with good, high-resolution scans of them? Get several different independent organizations working together, under security if that's an issue, to make sure nobody's pulling a fast one. I'm sure plenty of people would volunteer to do it at no cost.

After all, if no one has anything to hide, and the ultimate goal of this endeavor is to educate people and not just make money, and if this thing really is the most important event in the history of mankind, then that seems like a reasonable thing to do. Unfortunately, from day one simple reason - along with that last bit of incontrovertible evidence leading to proof - has always been sorely lacking in this matter.

reply posted on 15-4-2009 @ 05:33 PM by Indigo_Child

reply to post by Nohup

That is like saying just because the murder suspect was found at the scene of the crime, with the weapon of the crime and fingerprints on the victim does not mean that he is the murderer

Sorry but using reason to deduce things is an acceptable means of knowing and is used in all disciplines.

A magicians trick can be explained. There is not a single magic trick that cannot be explained. Meier photographs cannot be explained. They are not magic tricks, they are photos taken with a camera in a time when there was no photoshop or cgi available to the common man. They show UFO hovering above in the distance at very high altitude, they are appearing and disappearing and jumping from one place to another in real time without any cutting in camera.

Wheres the trick?

And then there is the metal sample an alloy containing rare metals and other metals and have marks showing microengineering when observed under an electron-scanning microscrope.

Wheres the trick?

The most reasonable explanation here is that that Meier is genuine. He is in contact with the Pleaidians and these UFO's are indeed beamships of the Pleaidians.

Why try to evade the most simplest explanation?

[edit on 15-4-2009 by Indigo_Child]

reply posted on 15-4-2009 @ 05:39 PM by Aspie

Ah the metals samples. The trick is in making them disappear, which indeed they miraculously have. As have all the original photos and negatives.

I wonder why?

reply posted on 15-4-2009 @ 05:47 PM by Indigo_Child

reply to post by Aspie

Well we know that Marcel Vogel had these metals in his possession one time and he has test results and photographs to prove it and even IIG has not denied that he did handle the metal.

Why did some of Meiers evidence dissappear. Do I really need to answer that one? Here is a man presenting the best evidence on ET in recorded history and here is a man who is a target for those who don't want this to get out.

Come on... Deny ignorance right? This whole forum is about "conspiracy"

reply posted on 15-4-2009 @ 05:57 PM by Frankinmouse

To Aspie,
Michael Horn has no material other that what was availible to the original investigators, he has not manufactured anything, merely presenting the information albiet in his own way to a new audience
To idigo ,
your statement that Nohup disagreed with is indeed flawed ,just because it is unexplained doed not mean it it is a ufo , but by the same token no one has proven it is not true.
Guys just have a real look at the material out there and see what you think, if you are going to look at the debunkers sites just look at the sites which provide all the counter arguments and make your own mind up.
I realise this is an uneasy pill to swallow for people opposed to the Meier case but admit at least that you don't know for sure that its a hoax.
No one does.