Should we have compassion for psychopaths?

Originally posted by slugger9787

Dear Mr. Seeker of Truth,

Your age is written all over your post.
Never the less.

"Medical science? When it still have not even scratch the surface of comprehension how the mind works, with everything still knowledge in progress?"

We have no treatment for RABIES. The best thing to do with a rabid dog is to shoot it.
You would demonstrate compassion to a rabid dog, can we ship the RABID dogs to your house so you can be compassionate?

There are certain Dx'es APD that there is no treatment for, so compassionately either lock them up for the remainder of their life, and if circumstances warrant, execution.

Unitymission has talked about being passionate about a subject. I will here now show you what true passion is about.

You used animals as an example. Why restrict yourself? Lets talk about AIDS then. It is incurable and fully transferable to humans as well, will do alot of harm too. Why not just kill them too?

Tell you what. Be the first to set the example, and live by your principle.

I will place my semi-automatic rifle on the table with ammo. It will be your choice and free will, to follow up on your principle of exterminating them. Pick up the rifle and then point it the innocent child with aids, who will smile at you and extend her tiny hands to you for a hug, as your finger grasp the trigger to exterminate her.

After you had murdered her, then do it to all the babies with Aids around the world. Then go for those with H1N1 too. They will harm humanity as well. Then go for those whom are gays and lesbians.

Then also go as Unitymission had wrote, count the numbers, 1.2.3, 4, 5 will grow up to be a rapist. Kill him. 1,2,3,4, 5 will grow up to be a paedophile, kill him too. 1,2,3,4,5 will grow up to be murderer, kill her too.

I still have savings and 5.56mm bullets are cheap by bulk order. I will place on the table for you to live by your free will, choice and freedom. But rest assured, when my limited funds run out, I will save 2 bullets.

The 2nd last bullet i will place it in between your eyes with my magnum. The last bullet will be to blow my brains out from the magnum in my mouth. You will die screaming to our Creator that you had only did what was right, and necessary, but by your principle you lived by, you had only proven yourself capable of no feelings similar to a pyscopath to kill and murder others, with that principle and free will, will you be judge and accorded punishments by Him, wherelse I will go in peace, knowing full well the crime I had done, for the murder of 2 precious humans gifted with life and love, yours and mine, and will calmly await the condemnation for eternity. Law is law, and is transparent and across the board.

At least the world of humanity will then be rid of 2 pyschopaths, me and YOU......

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101


I was the one counting the babies, and my position is that all people are those innocent babies and that they are badly traumatized by life, that we have to walk in everyones moccasins and not judge at all. I didnt use that illustration in a judgmental way, but in the opposite.

That we should always be for unconditional love and work for healing this world. The controllers only have as much power as we give them and only do things because we allow ourselves to be distracted by their wars and hateons. They could not stop our love and mercy and finding solutions to help if we can pull away from the materialism and entertainment enough to really feel for each other.

I beleive everything is a test, and that our Higher Selves do not allow anyone in this cosmos, on any level, to go home until we are light as feather, clear, vibrant, loving thoughts that yearn for the full equality and healing of all. We are not to judge others. Yes, personal protection from harm may be needed in some cases, but not punitively for the sake of punishing.

If we are loving, and nonjudgmental, and care about everyone, and sincerely wish we could find solutions and provide healing and support equality, then whatever blemishes we have ourselves, our own spirits, our own soul, our own Family of Light, our own Higher Self will be that way with us.

We fall into perceptions in this world and this world reflects the sum total of our souls. It is the physical manifestation of soul.

When we pass over, we bring our distortions and judgments and fall into dreams, illusions. Being punitive and nonforgiving is not going to help us for we will turn ourselves over to the Saturnists for purgings and whippings unless we are loving and forgiving.

Right now, everyone who is so concerned about NWO and the world as it is, would set the same system of haves and have nots, the same injustices up, if they were suddenly free to re-establish.

We've got to move beyond this, with unconditional love.



[edit on 5-8-2010 by Unity_99]

reply to post by Unity_99


I think the point they were trying to make is not to judge people. I think their whole rant about killing people was following the ideology of Slugger9787, and they were trying to show that by judging and killing innocent people they are no better than a "psychopath". Which is true. Killing people because they COULD kill is wrong you are innocent until you do something that causes you to become guilty.

reply to post by yeahright


Ugh! Now my previous posts are null and void. Can you love someone without feeling compassion for them?

reply to post by Demetre


I don't know... I think you can love and have no compassion but its not really love but infatuation. I think true love needs compassion. And you don't need to love to be compassionate. Now the word compassionate sounds funny.

I think this is all philosophical now. Since what is love and what constitutes love?

wow people are really up in arms about this thread. i feel like im goin into the danger zone but oh well! Here is my 2 cents ive learned from reading 2 books on sociopaths and from my psychology courses im taking at my college here in texas. "The Sociopath Next Door," by Martha Sout, and "Without Conscience: The Disturbing World of Psychopaths among us." by Dr. Robert Hare. anyway, the first few chapters in Robert Hares book describe a test conducted where the brain was measured using a SPECT brain scan, and they found that people we call sociopaths or psychopaths, have a different brain wiring. this is a fact! heres a video i found on it...

www.youtube.com...

basically they did a study where they said the words "tree chair plant water" etc, and then said words like "love hate anger COMPASSION" and the sociopaths reacted in the same neutral way to the feeling words as if they were talking about a tree. so then they did the SPECT study and it was proven!

i do however think that science without God is ridiculous, so in my personal view i believe anyone can change through the love of Jesus Christ. I would like to find a "sociopath" who found God, and compare their brains in a before/after way. thatd be cool.

Not sure if the embedding is going to work so i posted the link up also!

EDIT: tryin to get the vid to work..grr

[edit on 5-8-2010 by matrixportal]

[edit on 5-8-2010 by matrixportal]

"Should we have compassion for psychopaths?"

i'm not sure what actions, behaviors, and intentions are attributes of a psychopath to fellow ATSers, but it seems to me we do elevate psychopaths in the social ladder.

want to know a psychopath?

look at those who spend millions to get to elected office in order to make more laws for their constituants who don't live long enough to learn the existing laws.

psychopath, elected official, what is the difference?

Originally posted by Xiamara
reply to post by unityemissions

 

that has to be one of the most sickening things i have read on this site. Killing children diagnosed with sociopathic/psychopathic tenancies. You as a person actually disgust me. Killing children because they have a mental disorder that may not be passed down. How can you call your self in any way compassionate. Children are innocent and Antisocial Personality Disorder CAN BE TREATED. Congrats what you suggest is what the Nazi's in Germany did to the mentally insane. Also have you ever studied psychology? I don't mean to flame but this is sickening and I have to say it hits me to the core seeing as my own cousin as a child displayed psychopathic symptoms and when directed he can function perfectly well.

You are ignorant. Psychopathy is genetic, and definitely passed down if it doesn't come about from specific brain damage. It doesn't mean you'll always express it, of course, but are much more likely to if several of these genes run in your family. Phase them out slowly over the generations, else they will phase us out.

I have already made my stance clear. Nobody but this subspecies needs to go. Everyone else should be respected as decency-capable human beings.

You guys fail to see that psychopathy, sociopathy, and anti-social tendencies are entirely different. The DSM is STUPID. Psychopathy can't be treated, it's genetic. Get over it.

[edit on 5-8-2010 by unityemissions]

reply to post by unityemissions


And where exactly are your sources? Prove to me that it is 100% genetic I will guarantee you can't find it, ok let me specify CREDIBLE evidence. The DSM is a diagnostic tool used by all who are in the psychiatric field. They can be helped and there is evidence which corroborates this see the CREDIBLE DSM.

That we should always be for unconditional love

All love has conditions.
Just ask GOD.

reply to post by Xiamara


The DSM BIBLE is produced by the APA the very men and women who use this BIBLE DSM,

It is self serving and self perpetuating.

Their psychology is as close to a religion as you can get without going to church.

reply to post by unityemissions


You are judgmental. Calling someone ignorant.

I have been in this field of mental health for thirty five years.

You will fail in this field because you will enter the field with rose colored glasses and burnout.

Three decades of these studies, by Hare and others, has confirmed that psychopaths' brains work differently from ours, especially when processing emotion and language. Hare once illustrated this for Nicole Kidman, who had invited him to Hollywood to help her prepare for a role as a psychopath in Malice. How, she wondered, could she show the audience there was something fundamentally wrong with her character? "I said, 'Here's a scene that you can use,' " Hare says. " 'You're walking down a street and there's an accident. A car has hit a child in the crosswalk. A crowd of people gather round. You walk up, the child's lying on the ground and there's blood running all over the place. You get a little blood on your shoes and you look down and say, "Oh #." You look over at the child, kind of interested, but you're not repelled or horrified.

You're just interested. Then you look at the mother, and you're really fascinated by the mother, who's emoting, crying out, doing all these different things. After a few minutes you turn away and go back to your house. You go into the bathroom and practice mimicking the facial expressions of the mother.' " He then pauses and says, "That's the psychopath: somebody who doesn't understand what's going on emotionally, but understands that something important has happened."

Hare's research upset a lot of people. Until the psychopath came into focus, it was possible to believe that bad people were just good people with bad parents or childhood trauma and that, with care, you could talk them back into being good. Hare's research suggested that some people behaved badly even when there had been no early trauma. Moreover, since psychopaths' brains were in fundamental ways different from ours, talking them into being like us might not be easy. Indeed, to this day, no one has found a way to do so. "Some of the things he was saying about these individuals, it was unheard of," says Dr. Steven Stein, a psychologist and ceo of Multi-Health Systems in Toronto, the publisher of the Psychopathy Checklist. "Nobody believed him thirty years ago, but Bob hasn't wavered, and now everyone's where he is.

Everyone's come full circle, except a small group who believe it's bad upbringing, family poverty, those kinds of factors, even though scientific evidence has shown that's not the case. There are wealthy psychopaths who've done horrendous things, and they were brought up in wonderful families." "There's still a lot of opposition -- some criminologists, sociologists, and psychologists don't like psychopathy at all," Hare says. "I can spend the entire day going through the literature -- it's overwhelming, and unless you're semi-brain-dead you're stunned by it -- but a lot of people come out of there and say, 'So what? Psychopathy is a mythological construct.' They have political and social agendas: 'People are inherently good,' they say.

'Just give them a hug, a puppy dog, and a musical instrument and they're all going to be okay.' " If Hare sounds a little bitter, it's because a decade ago, Correctional Service of Canada asked him to design a treatment program for psychopaths, but just after he submitted the plan in 1992, there were personnel changes at the top of CSC. The new team had a different agenda, which Hare summarizes as, "We don't believe in the badness of people." His plan sank without a trace. By the late 1970s, after fifteen years in the business, Bob Hare knew what he was looking for when it came to psychopaths. They exhibit a cluster of distinctive personality traits, the most significant of which is an utter lack of conscience. They also have huge egos, short tempers, and an appetite for excitement -- a dangerous mix. In a typical prison population, about 20 percent of the inmates satisfy the Hare definition of a psychopath, but they are responsible for over half of all violent crime.

Read

[edit on 5-8-2010 by unityemissions]

I remember reading in one of the books i mentioned in my above thread, that some children in orphanages who hadnt been held, touched, or shown affection as kids then turned to develop a form of psychopathy, but not all of them i think. when a child is first born why does the baby get held up to the mothers heart right after birth? its the "bonding." people who dont have that bonding in the critical stages of childhood end up to display more sociopathic tendencies then others. i think this comes down to a classic nature vs. nurture debate. in the end it always results in being a little bit of both.

just my 2 cents

[edit on 5-8-2010 by matrixportal]

Wow...you really have given us food for thought! Perhaps some day and hopefully in the near future, paediatricians can test embryonic fluid or the fetus for whatever it is that causes a child to be born a psychopath, and then correct the problem whilst the baby is still in the womb. Maybe science can do these tests already, but is prevented from doing so because of a possible conflict with ethics. As far as showing compassion for a psychopath, that's a tough one, since the person after all is still a human being. My conscience tells me I should show compassion, but then again I haven't suffered the loss of a family member or friend to the unfeeling and cold hearted whim of the psychopathic murderer. I did read somewhere that many psychopaths can live their entire lives with no one ever suspecting they have this terrible mental disability, and perhaps I'm wrong, but this leads me to believe there must be degrees of the illness, ranging from mild to severe. Does anyone know if the illness is progressive? Obviously I had better do some reading and definitely a lot of thinking before I can give what I believe is an honest answer to your question.

Originally posted by Demetre
I dont think you've been in a situation to where You've had to deal with someone with this.

well, yes, i have actually.
i was an RN for almost 10 years and i met a lot of people with all sorts of psychiatric diagnosis, usually multiple ones but several that were just APD.
i worked with patients of that sort both in the hospital and in their home settings. it was interesting to say the least.

You might know someone or come across them but to be subject to them without choice is more than some can understand.

well, i didn't set out to be a nurse with the thought of dealing with mental health, at all. but that's not the same situation as the one you've had to deal with and i truly am sorry that you've had to go through all this, especially with your mom.
it's tragic for all of you and i wish it weren't so.

Whether people are 'born evil' or not, I dont know?? I do know that it takes an evil person to do the things she's done.

what i think of, when i think of evil, is the actions of a person who cares only for themselves and therefore doesn't mind using, hurting, or abusing other people, including their family. so i guess i can relate to what you are saying.
her actions hurt you, and others, and that is evil and certainly it must FEEL evil.

Would you feel compassion for those who torment and torture others because they can?

yes, i do.
now, remember, compassion does not require action - it is just a feeling. a feeling for someone else's suffering and the DESIRE to alleviate it. but the desire doesn't have to become an action. i've felt compassion for countless individuals whom i knew i could not help, for whatever reason. sometimes there is no help, at least at the time. but not doing anything didn't make me feel for them any less or not wish there was something that could be done.

when there is a victim, there is also someone who victimized them and the bottom line of human nature seems to indicate that those who victimize are, or have been, victims themselves. it might be at the hands of another person, or maybe something in their make-up that prevents them from normal interactions with other people. it could be a short-circuit in their brain, whatever. but still it isn't something they did to themselves.

even the worst cases of APD, that result in the pain and suffering of many other people, are not the fault of the person who has APD. the human soul is a naturally social animal. much of our behavior is geared toward society, family, community. we tend to avoid behaviors that will result in being shunned into isolation from others. someone who has APD is lacking whatever mechanism it is that makes us social creatures. that can't be by choice because it goes against our nature as humans.

I dont feel compassion for someone who's done the things they have, it is definately wasted on some pple. I have no compassion for molesters or parents that beat their children resulting in a lifetime of seizures. like she did my brother. Especially those theyre supposed to protect and love.

well, you don't have to, certainly - it is your choice and i can't say that i can blame you! i don't know what it's like to go through the things that you have so i can't say that i wouldn't feel the same.

too bad that things weren't different from the start, maybe someone finding out about your mom's APD before you all were born and doing something to prevent the situation. not all people are meant to be parents, because parenting has one priority and only one, which is the welfare and success of the children. if that won't be the case, then there shouldn't be any children.

of course that isn't the way the world works, and it's just the way it is. many people do the same things to their children and don't even have APD or anything else. they just shouldn't of had children, either.

I spent 30 yrs of my life forgiving and giving compassion to someone who has no idea how to be a decent human being. I've begged for love and acceptance where it should be a given. I've made excuses for her over and again. She has no regret, there is only her in her f'ed up world. That is how compassion can be a waste. I have compassion for those who suffer, those who want to change their ways and are sorry for the things they've done. I havent any for cold hearted, down right rotten ppl who take advantage of and abuse those who cant protect themselves. Theyre okay with it, they havent a problem with the pain they cause others and even enjoy it. She's autonomous, a robot, who doesnt suffer because she's unable to.

well, think about this, for yourself.
just accept that. let go of her as far as what you need and want from her.
you aren't going to get it, obviously, and you've suffered, yourself, seeking it and asking for it and never getting it.
she can't/won't change but you can.
it's not your fault any more than it is hers but you don't have to live with it like she does.
don't expect her to change. don't expect anything at all.
that's the only for sure way to not continue to be hurt and disappointed.

i'm only saying these things because i feel compassion for YOU!
a lot.

Are you really okay with molestors and child beaters?

by 'Okay' i guess you mean do i not object?
i do object, very much so. it's awful and it just makes for more suffering in future generations.
but that doesn't mean i don't feel their suffering. most molesters and child beaters were molested or beaten themselves. on the other hand, many others did not repeat the crime, but i guess that just has to do with strength of character. whatever the reason, i cannot dismiss anyone's suffering as something unworthy of my awareness.

Do you honestly feel sorry for those who allow their kids to be abused sexually?

well, if they know it is going on, it is heinous! what would make a person allow that? i don't know. but still there is room for compassion.

Those who drop off and leave their 10 yr old to take care of a 7 year old and a 6 month old, days, sometimes a wk or 2 at a time?

same thing - as well as more reason not everyone should be parents.

Thats when I think compassion is wasted. Place that compassion with the victims, with my brothers, not some shell of a person who doesnt care to accept the help thats offered. You can only say what you'd do hypothetically. With all respect intended, honest, live it and get back to me.

but compassion isn't help! it could be the start of some sort of action intended to help, but it, in itself, is a passive emotion that does not require any action whatsoever. it is just feeling.

and while your sentiment is clear, with that last sentence, the truth is, i probably won't ever live it - and with regard to your same situation, i know i won't because my mom already raised me and she didn't have APD.

i have talked to many people who have suffered in similar situations, and not all of them when i was an RN. i know some people, personally, who have had to deal with the same kinds of things, although none exactly like you. you are unique, just like everyone else. no one but you is going to know what it is like to live the life you are living. that's inevitable stark truth. we can only try to relate to one another but we can't shut out everyone else just because they are not in the same situation we are in.

i wouldn't have even contributed to this thread if i didn't have some sort of background, knowledge, and experience with the subject at hand.
just so you know.

I'd like to add that I wish no harm to her, She's my mom. I mourn for the mother we've never had and deserved. I dont want her locked up or executed but help should be forced upon her, for her sake and everyone elses. Who knows, she might even become decent to the other lives around her. My brothers and I liken her to the Grinch but her heart never did grow. Gotta make jokes where you can, sometimes thats the only way you can deal.
Kim

that's true.
laugh to keep from crying is what my mom always said.
i don't think, though, that even if help were forced upon her, that it would work. it all depends on a few things either being present or not. specifically:

For all the caution that individuals with APD should inspire, the condition may be treatable in the presence of certain conditions and characteristics, Gabbard said.

These include depression, anxiety, the ability to form a therapeutic alliance, and some evidence of a superego. Any of these is likely to indicate that the individual is not of the psychopathic subgroup of APD.

Even then, optimism should be guarded, and excessive expectations should be avoided. He outlined some fundamentals of engaging the antisocial personality:

• The clinician must be stable, persistent, and incorruptible and should be alert to the likelihood of legal problems and legal entanglements.

• The patient’s minimalization of antisocial behavior should be confronted in the here and now, and an attempt should be made to connect actions to internal states.

• Axis I conditions should be identified, as should situational factors that worsen behaviors.

• Countertransference must be monitored to avoid acting out on the part of the clinician.

The factors that do not favor therapy—probably indicative of a psychopathic subtype—include a history of sadistic violence resulting in death or injury to others, a total absence of remorse, a historical incapacity to form emotional attachments, and a level of intelligence that is either in the range of mildly mentally retarded or very superior.

source

good luck and i hope you find peace somehow...and happiness that is your own and out of the reach of your mother and your experiences.

reply to post by matrixportal


This is very true, but the more appropriate term is sociopathy as it's environmentally produced. Some people refer to it as secondary psychopathy. The type I'm mentioning and most concerned about is primary psychopathy.

The first stage of development in a human beings needs which need to be met is security. It is nurtured by forming a bond with a caregiver. If this is neglected, it may not form at all, and the result will be sociopathy. This is tragic, but I believe can be treated with a tremendous amount of support over time.

Compassion for a psychopath?

Prison for life or execution.

Put them out of their misery, and spare the misery for the hundreds of their victims.

A psychopath has the same free will as everyone else.

They reject society rules years before society rejects them.