Should we have compassion for psychopaths?

reply to post by slugger9787


There are alternatives. Parents seek the easy one consultation visit. Doctor Doctor I don't want to deal with my child got a pill for that? From the psychologists I have met NONE of them treat their own children with the big drugs, most look at research and provide alternatives, which can be more expensive. Most parents don't want to go down this rout and just want to go to the drug store get some drugs and go back to ignoring their children. Do your research better than one book. If you actually looked into the field you would see its the parents choice. If a psychologist tells a mother no your kid doesn't have ADD she goes to a different doctor for a second opinion good chances that doctor will say yeah your kid has ADD. As well My own theory on why depression is on the rise causing more children to be on anti depressants is because parents aren't parenting they sit the kid in front of the TV.

There are two sides to this. The conspiracy side that likes to think we want to make money, and want to make everyone compliant and worship us, then the people working on the front lines. I work and study on the front lines. We don't get to provide alternatives because they don't want to listen to it we get called hippies and crackpots. Did you know fish oil actually helps ADD and OCD? no because we can't talk about that and get slandered by drug companies. If you want to play the blame game look at the drug companies. They wanted to help and now they want to make money. I can argue this until my face turns blue because I am passionate about the psychology field and educating people in the facts about psychology. We don't have a secret agenda we just want to help people.

reply to post by Xiamara


You said it yourself.

It is the parents fault.

Depression is the parents fault too for sitting kids in front of TV.
Not eating enough fish oil, again the parents fault.

Children who are IGNORED?

Look Xiamara I have been in this field for 35 years, three degrees, and of course the professionals do not give their own children meds. What ethics abound when the professional "caves in" to parental wishes?

Better investigate who funds most of the workshops and CEU's approved for your profession. Now that is being brainwashed as a profession.




BTW, I have forgotten more about psychology than you currently know.

Tell me to do more research? Get yourself some more experience under your belt, wet behind the ears.

edit on 6-8-2010 by slugger9787]

[edit on 6-8-2010 by slugger9787]

[edit on 6-8-2010 by slugger9787]

reply to post by slugger9787


Exactly... We try and help people manage their impulses by drug treatment or therapy.

Its not an excuse its a cause. If some one has repeated seizures and can't work are you going to tell them, you can't use that as an excuse. Its not their fault they have a brain defect that causes them to seize. They can try to manage by drugs but some times that doesn't work. Or they stop.

Chemical imbalances are very debilitating. Its takes enormous amounts of effort to control your actions when you experience it. And yes I speak from personal experience. I suffer from OCD and obsessively organize and cannot stand to hear people eat I go into fits of rage which are very very hard to control, as well if people move items which have significance to me and are placed in a certain area I am prone to going into a rage. I can't help it, and I've had it from a young age. I often have thoughts that get stuck in my head and I obsess on them. Until you know what its like or know some one who has chemical imbalances, you cannot say that its an excuse.

reply to post by Xiamara


You need therapy yourself, and if you are not in counseling you need to be there.

Otherwise, S*** runs downhill from you to your clients, patients whatever.

reply to post by slugger9787


I have and you know what I'm personally fine, I'd be worried about your patients since you say you work in the psychology field yet you use outdated terms and information.

Yes I've not been in the field long but I've been exposed to psychology since I was born. My aunts are all in the psychiatric field and the one I am closest with practically raised me. My uncle works in a psychiatric hospital for the criminally insane. Not to mention my adoptive family has neurological disorders, Mainly OCD and ADD but as well as APD, mild Autism, and social phobias. I also suffer from OCD and have been to a therapist for depression, and phobias, not that it's your business.

I'm fully in support of drug and counseling therapy. I would also like to ask you if you work in the field why do seem so opposed to it? Seems awfully fishy to me, but who am I to ask. In your opinion I am just a child. I hold no hard feeling to your insults I am just stating my information. As a psychologist in training, I feel bound to the DSM IV and soon DSM V to me it is hard facts until someone shows me documented credible studies disproving the entire DSM is false. As far as I'm concerned people with any sort of chemical imbalance, can use it as an "excuse" to a certain extent. Be logical about it, if some one uses the excuse I killed them because i suffer from depression and its a chemical imbalance, its stupid. Use common sense people. There are ALWAYS exceptions to the rule.

This is exactly what you said:
"Its all about your personal control. You have free will so you can use it to do what ever you want. Some people's brains may be hard wired so that access to information is easier but they have the choice not to use it just like some one who has a learning disability can end up being a rocket scientist, it takes more effort but they can do it. Some peoples brains are wired to be aggressive but they can calm themselves and turn off the impulse with enough will power. Just like the calmest nicest person in the world can pick up a gun and fire it."

This is the truth Will power; self control; choice.

Instead of teaching these three things, the profession just gives drugs.

reply to post by slugger9787


To be fair, after reading yours and Xiamara's posts, I do believe Xiamara is and enlightened individual. Where therapy fails, drugs will have to be used to help. No point in kidding ourselves that humanity has reached the apogee of neuroscience comprehension or even masters of it.

We are still far from it, and it sure is a hell lot better than just to murder another human if he does not conform to society's expectation and norm. At least it will help him to a certain extend to be a contributing member of society.

There is no need to send a person with anti-social behaviour into sales, service or PR positions whereby he will be the sacked after 1 day's work. But if he is sent to some job whereby he can be alone, be methodical and even monotonous, he will certainly excel in it, gain pride and elevate himself.

Each and every human has a role to play on Earth, and it must fit, either by themselves or by enlightened beings, so that no human will be left behind. We need each other to progress and evolve, and killing each other will only lead to regression of humanity back to the stone ages and then extinction.

Peace.

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101


Thank you seeker of truth I think you have calmly put this argument to rest. Neuroscience isn't even close to knowing exactly how things are working but it is better than killing people.

reply to post by slugger9787




I'm perplexed?? Trying to grasp what the 2 of u are going on about and it's hard to follow?? One says 1 thing, the other disagrees then they say the same thing they disagreed about earlier??
I'm hearing/reading that you believe that nobody should be medicated for mental disabilities ever? That they can always deal with their disorder through therapy alone? That they have a choice when it comes to their actions, that it's all willpower? Super interested in what you guys have to say but it's become the proverbial pissing contest and I want to understand...
kim

reply to post by Demetre



I was arguing for logic... Or I think I was? I'm not sure I got lost in the argument. I was arguing that Psychology is good and that killing people is bad.. Medicating is good if done properly and its hard to get alternatives to people between 2-10 because parents want the quick fix... Some how that got turned around to argue that psychologist want to blame mommy and daddy but its not really.. Mommy and daddy didn't cause the problem just treat don't want to deal with it. Like Parents with kids who are a bit hyperactive and so they medicate them up. Then some how chemical imbalances came up as an excuse to get out of stuff which is perfectly reasonable to a certain extent. Then i got told to see a therapist because I have chemical imbalances being treated, And slugger thought people with mental problems should be in institutions their whole life or killed and has worked in the mental health field for 35 years...

Hope that clarifies stuff... I'm still just as confused, I always forget you need to be overly detailed because people don't use common sense logic when reading. I think that lead to confusion.

Look Ms. Confused.

Live and breathe by the DSM IV RT= revised text.

Me I will continue to engage patients with empathy.
Even if it means helping them deal with very intense real emotions.

I do not medicate as a first or second or third choice.

Medication puts patients in a chemical straight jacket, oh so much more humane than the canvas ones of yesteryear.

Medication gives patients a chemical frontal lobotomy, and secondary there develops tardive dyskinesia.
But you explain that is better than the real frontal lobotomy.

You will live and learn.

I practice Reality Therapy.
William Glasser.

Personally, I hold compassion for everyone. It isn't my place to say whether we as a species "should" or "should not" hold compassion for psychopaths, but I do. My reasoning is this: yes, they are devoid of conscience. Did they choose to be devoid of conscience, though? Can they change it through their own volition? Are they even, literally, capable of caring at all that their actions are hurtful or destructive to others? If the answer to those questions is, "No," then I cannot condemn them for what is, essentially, a defect.

I do feel that they should be separated from society so as to protect the rest of the population from their exploitative and destructive tendencies. However, when I combine the above reasoning with speculation that none of us may have free will at all, at least as we traditionally conceive of it (not trying to plug a thread; I just feel it's at least tangentially relevant here,) I find it exceedingly difficult to condemn them entirely, personally.

reply to post by slugger9787



Why are you being such an ass over me wanting you to be a bit more clear with what your saying? Why so defensive?? DSM? I'm an owner of a bakery, not at all educated in the mental health field so cut me break, eh? Your job should be to educate people so they can understand the topic of mental health on a deeper level, to 'de-stygmatize' any disorder. I'm not the only one to misunderstand you Mr. 'Rude for no reason at all', maybe it's your shortcoming and not mine?? Empathy? You cant even answer a question without being condescending, which is what you've been doing recently anyway. Thats the last thing a DR of mental health should be?
and it's Mrs. Confused.

reply to post by Demetre



I just gave you an ass chewing and Im not the Ms. Confused am I?


I'm Ms. Perplexed?? Sorry, I'm the ass here..Forgive?? Eating crow...
I did not erase it, taking responsibility here...


[edit on 8/6/10 by Demetre]

[edit on 8/6/10 by Demetre]

It's all very well people saying that therapy is good or that medication is good, it all comes down to the individual that has the particular mental condition. In all honesty I kind of find it funny that people know how mental health sufferers feel when they don't have a mental condition, psychologists, mental health workers included. Reading about it in a book is alot different than actually having that particular problem.

Cambion,

People today suffer from chronic terminal uniqueness.
Hence your paradigm, which follows, paraphrased:
"Hey everybody, unless you have had _(pet diagnosis)_ and are treating, getting over or suffering from __(pet diagnosis)_, then it is impossible for you to know how I feel. And as a result of you not having this _(pet diagnosis)_ I do not have to listen to or follow your advice or counsel, cause it is impossible for you to know what you are talking about."

There are only a few feeling or emotional avenues or experiences that humans have available to them.

There are an infinite number of thinking or mental avenues or experiences that humans have available to them.

Patient:
I feel ________.

Professional:
I know how you feel.
I have felt that way before.
I did ____ to change and work through how I was feeling.

edited to add
So does a man know how a woman "feels" that has the diagnosis or condition of pregnancy???

And Cambion,
I bet you were delivered into this world by a male, who, though knew nothing about how a woman "feels" while pregnant, knew exactly how to terminate or render a successful outcome. Right.

[edit on 7-8-2010 by slugger9787]

reply to post by slugger9787


Actually I was delived by a female midwife lol.

I see your point, but what I was trying to say was there is only so much that you can learn from a book, of course experience in the fields is more information that you have learnt on the subject.

And the reason that I am here is because I want to learn and listen to every argument(improving my knowledge base), but it is quite a bit different to understanding 'manic depression(for example) and going through it.

Sorry if it all came across in a misunderstood way

reply to post by Demetre


apology accepted, though I realized you were confused because you thought I was talking to you and once you realized your error capitulated. See you have an intact conscience which when you compare your values (held within your conscience) against your actions (ass chewing for me) you observed a discrepancy and immediately felt ashamed and afraid.
A APD does have a conscience, as all men and women do, they just continue to choose to a) never compare their actions against their morals, or b) rationalize and justify how their behavior complies with their morals.

The treatment for an APD is not medication,, it is Reality Therapy. When you sit on the burner, (figurative) you of your own free will sit on the blisters.
An APD sits on the burner often and then manipulate someone else to sit on the blisters for them. Hence they never have to experience the pain.
See people pay lip service to advice and counsel, but they obey pain.
The therapy of Reality is that when a APD sits on the burners of life you manipulate them back so they themselves sit on the pain.
What this causes in a counseling relationship, marriage, friendship is that the APD will terminate the relationship and not associate with you again.
Children need help forming their conscience, which is predominately a parent job.
I have always been a proponent of applying the board of education to the seat of higher learning with children. It is not politically correct now days, but it is called an ass whipping, not abuse, just putting some figurative blisters on their little butt for sitting on a burner that they have been told to not do.

children need help in forming their consciences between the ages of 2-9.
Children do like sitting on burners, and they do not like sitting on blisters.
Hence though politically incorrect, I am in favor of applying the Board of Education to the Seat of Higher Learning.

People obey pain.

That is "Reality Therapy" in its most simplest formation.

And I could care less if you like my philosophy or not, the greatest generation of Americans were raised on Reality Therapy, and they not only survived the great depression, they won WW II.
See what you can do is argue all the causes of this dx vs that dx, and the etiology of this vs that but the bottom line is that spanking a child on the butt in the right amount at the right time for the right reason WORKS.

And you CANNOT argue with success.

[edit on 7-8-2010 by slugger9787]

Originally posted by virraszto
I consider myself a pretty compassionate person. If it were one of my close relatives who was the psychopath, yes, I'd have compassion. If it was someone that I was not emotionally tied to, then no.

I'm being honest, even if it sounds terrible.

It doesn't sound terrible. It shows you are s good person. HOWEVER......because of that, you would be the type of person a psychopath would manipulate and use. They "go through the motions", IMITATING emotion so as to appear normal. I personally do not feel compassion towards someone like that. All they care about is what they want, and they will use people with no regard as to how it will affect them to achieve their goal. So if you had a psychopath a friend, and were compassionate towards them (helping them etc)....all you would get in return is a knife in the back....figuratively or literally. Like the OP said. They have nos sympathy or empathy, and to them, other people are just objects to them.