Proving God to be fake... In under ten seconds...

Everyone can go back and forth in their opinions regarding God, and for those who do not believe in God, that is your free will choice. The bottom line to all of this, is the fact, God is God and Jesus Christ is who He said he was and like Jesus said,” If you don’t believe He is who He said He is, you will die in your sins”. It is that simple.

It doesn’t matter one way or the other to me. You reach the point to where you can witness and witness, to what you know is reality within you and all around you, but there comes a point where you have to shake the dust off your feet and walk away and let those who are set in their unbelief, reap the effects of it and, yes, there will be a day when you do know the truth. Unfortunately by then, the truth that sets believers free in this life, in the after life, it will be too late for the unbelieving to be set free from the darkness and unbelief they defended all the days of their life.

You live in darkness and you will dwell in darkness.

reply to post by jdposey

is your free will choice.

lol. No such thing. You do realise that the same "I believe and you unbelievers are going to burn" stupidity is used for every religious belief in the world, and they are all as adamant about it as you are.

[edit on 23/2/2009 by Good Wolf]

Ummm, who is it that uses the computer? The computer doesn't use the computer for it's own benefit.

And if you actually believed what you did, then why do you pretend that Christians have a choice? Obviously they don't if you are correct and there is no choice, so why even bother? Oh, because you have no choice either?

You're arguments are full of contradictions and if you are too ignorant to see or admit that, then there is really not point in talking about it. You keep screaming there is no choice, and then you scold people for the choices they make. Absolutely ignorant.

Truth is, you are blind to the truth, and just like the bible says you are unable to see the truth, and so you deny it in others. We deny in others what we lack.

:shk:

Go take your phony proof somewhere else. I'm sick and damn tired of athiest who use, it's like a defense mechanism they use to make God even further away from their rebellious hearts.

You don't believe? Fine, then shut the hell up.

You are NOT going to convince us believers who seen miracles, and the saints who worked them and talked face to face with Christ that God is false.


This thread is another reason I dislike posting here.

peace.

[edit on 23-2-2009 by JesusisTruth]

And btw

(hell) is for seperation from God. When believers say you will go to hell if not believe it's a statement of truth that god will sepreate the believers from the non, yet the non have every chance to believe on Earth.


So if a police officer said.

You will go to jail if you do this or that.

How come God cannot say you will go to hell if you are evil or a non believer?



People either chose to want to be in God house or not.

and people chose hell, and in their hearts they say I don't want to serve.


peace.

[edit on 23-2-2009 by JesusisTruth]

reply to post by JesusisTruth

(hell) is for seperation from God.

But god is supposed to be omnipresent.

Originally posted by Good Wolf
reply to post by JesusisTruth

 

(hell) is for seperation from God.

But god is supposed to be omnipresent.

Separation from God just means you do not recognize God within and so forth. If you believe yourself to be of the flesh, then you will perish with the flesh. Thus why you must be born anew, born of spirit/soul/consciousness at which point you will realize who your true father is.

As you see yourself as merely flesh, then you are blind to anything beyond it.

reply to post by badmedia

Separation from God just means you do not recognize God within and so forth.

So I'm in hell already? Sweet. I thought it would be way worse.

Originally posted by Good Wolf
reply to post by badmedia

 

Separation from God just means you do not recognize God within and so forth.

So I'm in hell already? Sweet. I thought it would be way worse.

Reminds me. When I was a kid, my mom was very poor. I lived mostly off ramen noodles and mac n cheese until the age of about 5. I never once had a piece of candy in my life until I was 5 years old.

Some people say - oh your poor thing. But I didn't care. I had no idea what Candy was or anything. Didn't know it existed, didn't have any desire for it. So I didn't suffer at all. I just didn't know what was available.

When I was 5 years old, my grandpa gave me a Rolo. My first piece of candy. And just like that I wanted candy. If for the next 5 years I had to do without candy, then I would have suffered.

Originally posted by JesusisTruth
You don't believe? Fine, then shut the hell up.

Nice.

If someone else said something to ya like "You do believe? Fine, then shut the hell up" what would be your response?

Oh, no, lol, your next post after that answers that

reply to post by jdposey


lol... Isn't it funny?
Christians believe there will be a day when atheists will learn the 'truth' and be sorry that they didn't listen while atheists believe that Christians will die and never learn the truth.
I suppose one of the above is more theraputic than the other.
"You don't buy my story today, but you will one day. Oh yes... you will one day..." - *walks away*


My logic: If I am 'judged' and sent to Hell, then the only real difference between me and a believer (as I consider myself a person with morals) is that I require evidence for my beliefs.
Am I really worthy of being tortured for eternity just because I have a higher standard for beliefs than you? That's essentially what it comes down to.

Seriously... think about it.

Originally posted by John Nada
Well I would, although of course I'd want an awesome cyborg body, and on top a huge glass jar with my brain floating about that would be great. Or maybe a floating head in a jar like in Futurama, that would be sweet.

lol. Actually, there would be no need for any of that.
Just on a side note, nanotechnology will have the capability to constantly renew and heal your body in the future, by sending microscopic robots in your body to monitor everything and keep it ship-shape.
Nanotechnology will be the next 'big thing', and it's coming fast - most likely in our lifetime (assuming your 19 like me ).

Originally posted by TruthParadox
My logic: If I am 'judged' and sent to Hell, then the only real difference between me and a believer (as I consider myself a person with morals) is that I require evidence for my beliefs.
Am I really worthy of being tortured for eternity just because I have a higher standard for beliefs than you? That's essentially what it comes down to.

Seriously... think about it.

You judge yourself, as you are judged based on what you judge others on.

For example. Lets say you purposed and supported a law that outlaws religion. On the exterior it appears you are just getting rid of something "bad". But when you really do that, what you are actually saying is that it is ok for 1 person to decide and force something onto another. And if you do that, then you are also giving permission for those of more power on earth to force their beliefs and power onto you. Because you are going to reap what you sow. So, every time you judge and try to decide for another person you are actually judging yourself and that is what you will get back in return.

Thus the problem of the hypocrite. The hypocrite doesn't realize this, and so they think they are doing good things, but they aren't. And the way you tell if you are being a hypocrite is to put yourself in the other persons shoes. How would you like it if the same was being done to you.

Take a look at the Iraq war. People refused to look at it from the other side. How would we like it if someone came in and said - well GWB or Obama is bad and evil, he has to go. And then proceeded to take over everything and imposed on us in such a way. We would be furious. So by doing this, we can remove our own hypocrisy, and then we can try to show others how to do it as well.

And this is also explained in the bible.

1Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

4Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

5Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Sure, you didn't need the bible to know this. But it is there to understand plain as day.

Originally posted by badmedia
Ummm, who is it that uses the computer? The computer doesn't use the computer for it's own benefit.

And if you actually believed what you did, then why do you pretend that Christians have a choice? Obviously they don't if you are correct and there is no choice, so why even bother? Oh, because you have no choice either?

You're misunderstanding what I'm saying...
We have a choice... but then again we don't...
What matters is: What is choice? (read that 10 times if you have to, because you never seem to get what I'm saying)

I've already said that it comes down to external variables.
Am I not an external variable to you?
In the future, you've already made your "choice", and since time is irrelevant and is no more than an illusion when looking at the grand scheme of things, you've already made your choice - this is just part of the domino effect or equation that leads to that.
Online arguments against atheists may be a factor in that choice: either to strengthen your resolve or to make you take a closer look at our universe.
So I can be a part of your choice.

Originally posted by badmedia
You're arguments are full of contradictions and if you are too ignorant to see or admit that, then there is really not point in talking about it. You keep screaming there is no choice, and then you scold people for the choices they make. Absolutely ignorant.

Again, what matters is what choice IS...
We do have a choice, but it's not what most people think. It's an equation playing itself out while we watch it. The feeling you get when you make a choice is your mind crunching the numbers and getting a result (in a sense).

5+5=10

The 'equal' sign is the "choice"
It's not that it's non-existent, it's that it relies on the previous numbers and therefor the result can be predicted EVERY TIME if given enough data.

The only way that wouldn't be true is if our choices didn't rely on external variables.
Go ahead, try to prove that...

Say something random right now!
You could say: blkaduoifjkwoidjfa
But that's not random... It's a result of your mind in which the variables deciding that 'random' sequence can not be seen- but they none-the-less exist.


It all comes down to this badmedia:

Do you think that you can form a thought which is independent of the Universe?
Do you think you can make a choice that doesn't rely on your thoughts which are directly tied to your experiences?
Can you make a choice that couldn't be accurately predicted 100% of the time by an omniscient being, due to the fact that he could see the variables that effect you?

Argue that, if anything... But you will find it extremely hard to convince anyone that you can pull a thought out of thin air.

Originally posted by badmedia
Truth is, you are blind to the truth, and just like the bible says you are unable to see the truth, and so you deny it in others. We deny in others what we lack.

What truth? Your truth?
We are all blind to the truth of our Universe.
It's a riddle that no one should claim to have solved.
We are only human...

reply to post by JesusisTruth


Humanity progresses by communicating with each other and reasoning things out.
You, as well as many extremists, seem to want that to stop...
I wonder why that is.
Why should you care if I choose to use logic as a basis for my beliefs rather than believing the guy down the street who says he saw JC?
And what makes you think I'm trying to take away your belief?
Do I knock on your door and try to 'save' you?
Do I call you evil unless you believe in an invisible Santa Claus who sees when we are naughty or nice?
Do I try to tell you to live your life in fear of this being and of the consequences of simply being a human?

You say: "You don't believe? Fine, then shut the hell up. "

My response: You believe? Fine, then shut the hell up.


Let those who wish to use logic and reason as a basis for their beliefs do exactly that - why should that bother you so much...


Judge not, lest you be judged...

Originally posted by TruthParadox
You're misunderstanding what I'm saying...
We have a choice... but then again we don't...
What matters is: What is choice? (read that 10 times if you have to, because you never seem to get what I'm saying)

But as I keep pointing out to you, part of free will and choice is to give it away. Which is needed to have the experience we have. We have to give away part of our free will and narrow down the known for this experience. Just like you have to do in a poker game.

I've already said that it comes down to external variables.
Am I not an external variable to you?

Yes, you are a part of my experience. Just like the cards in a poker game are part of my experience. The cards come up, I don't know what they will be, but my decisions for the card game are based on the cards/variables that come up. If we played with all the cards showing from the start, where the entire hand is known to all, then there is no game because the winner is already known.

I'm well aware of the universe, logic and all these things. But while I may be holding a specific hand in a poker game, I am still not my cards. I am the one who is behind the cards deciding how to play the hand.

I am not my flesh anymore than I am the hand I play in a poker game. My flesh is my body, it's my cards, it's part of the poker game. I am the player.

Go ahead and play a game like WoW. Are you your character? No, you are the person who actually controls the character. Is there AI that can make other characters in the game do things which mimic a players actions? Yes. But it has no choice, it only follows the logic given to it.

When you look within the flesh, then you find consciousness and soul. I see myself as this, you see yourself as flesh.

In the future, you've already made your "choice", and since time is irrelevant and is no more than an illusion when looking at the grand scheme of things, you've already made your choice - this is just part of the domino effect or equation that leads to that.

Time is a very relevant part of your experience and perception. Time just doesn't exist for that which knows all.

Online arguments against atheists may be a factor in that choice: either to strengthen your resolve or to make you take a closer look at our universe.
So I can be a part of your choice.

And maybe one day you can take a look at things other than the universe. I'm not afraid of the universe at all. I just realize there is a difference between the universe of action and reaction and that which observes it. Do you believe AI in a game is conscious of the things it does? Nope.

I think I've pretty much summed up the rest of your points as well. We are never going to agree because you see yourself as flesh, and I do not see myself as being flesh. You see yourself as being the cards you are dealt, and I see myself as the player behind the cards.

There is no choice in the universe, the choice comes from within. You aren't dealt choice, it is a function of free will, which no logic can even come close to explaining, thus why those who try to use logic to explain what god is, rather than what is a sign of the divine they fail.

As I said before, with these 2 fundamental differences, we aren't going to agree. You can tell me all about how the cards are predetermined and our actions are dictated by those cards all day long, and I am going to keep remind you that you are the player, not the cards. You can keep pointing out how you are right about the cards being as such, and I will agree they are and they that define the experience. I agree and understand. But I am still the player, not the cards or part of the game itself.





[edit on 23-2-2009 by badmedia]

reply to post by badmedia


I agree with everything you just said (I think that's a first ).
I'm not interested in judgment, though I won't say I'm not guilty of it - we all are to an extent, as we are all hypocrites to an extent.
At most (as far as criminals are concerned), I'm interested in restrainment and not punishment.
I'm all for letting people make up their own mind about things as long as it doesn't hurt another person.

I think it would be a positive thing if people understood the extremely fine line between a criminal and a citizen. But we all let our emotions get the better of us at times.

Originally posted by Good Wolf
reply to post by JPhish

 

The future would be changed constantly by a humans "Freewill" making future outcomes entirely unpredictable.

incorrect.

God's omniscience vs humans' freewill.

These things cannot simultaneously exist, yet both can simultaneously not exist. 6 cups of one, half a dozen of the other.

what are you talking about . . . :shk:

reply to post by JPhish

Originally posted by JPhish

Originally posted by Good Wolf
reply to post by JPhish

 

The future would be changed constantly by a humans "Freewill" making future outcomes entirely unpredictable.

incorrect.

That so. Well future outcomes didn't change because of freewill, and were fixed, that would mean they are predetermined.

If our actions are predetermined, freewill doesn't exist.

reply to post by badmedia

Some people say - oh your poor thing.

Are you perhaps insinuating that I don't know the joy of having "a relationship" with Jesus. If you are then you should know I was a christian no more than 4 months ago and I was miserable as hell. Now I'm not miserable.


[edit on 24/2/2009 by Good Wolf]

Originally posted by Good Wolf
reply to post by badmedia

 

Some people say - oh your poor thing.

Are you perhaps insinuating that I don't know the joy of having "a relationship" with Jesus. If you are then you should know I was a christian no more than 4 months ago and I was miserable as hell. Now I'm not miserable.

Are you trying to insinuate that being a Christian automatically means you have a relationship with the father?

Christianity is an anti-Christ religion and the one that was warned of.

So obviously, you do not know anything about it.