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Proving God to be fake... In under ten seconds...

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posted on Feb, 22 2009 @ 01:56 PM
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Originally posted by noonebutme
Everything around me suggested in a logical operation to the world around me; physics, mathematics, science, chemistry, biology. Nothing said the island I was on was created by a supreme being!"


This above quote represents a lot of Evolutionist, and Atheist.

[edit on 22-2-2009 by ALLis0NE]




posted on Feb, 22 2009 @ 01:59 PM
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reply to post by ALLis0NE
 


Where is The quote from? Just an Inquiring mind.

rekar



posted on Feb, 22 2009 @ 02:04 PM
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Originally posted by thrashee
As I said, the problem of evil is that evil is subjective and a matter of perspective. The argument is flawed from the start. I don't need links to back up this logic because I'm formulating it on my own.


All we can work with, in respect to God, is what is given in the Bible.
It says he is good.
It says Satan is evil.
It says God can do anything.
It says God is all knowing.

All we can work with is what we have.
You can argue that there may be circumstances that we are unaware of all you want, but that's besides the point.
I will argue with the data we have.
God says that he will put Satan (the evil one) in the lake of fire for all eternity.
So the question arises, why did he create the evil one to begin with?
God being all knowing and all powerful, it all becomes his will.
If it was his will to create an evil one, then God is not all good as stated in the Bible.
As simple as that.

You could argue that maybe there was a reason why he had to create evil or whatever, blah blah blah. I don't want to get into an argument of possibilities, but of the data that we DO have - because I already know that it could very well be possible that God exists.



posted on Feb, 22 2009 @ 02:16 PM
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Originally posted by ALLis0NE
This above quote represents a lot of Evolutionist, and Atheist.


Probably... but there is nothing wrong with drawing conclusions based on experience...

I don't suppose you've examined exactly "why" god is even talked about...

Some old men a couple thousand years ago, wrote a buncha stuff in a book...

Now, alot of people believe their god is the only way to salvation... ok...

now lets concider exactly how "lucky" these people are to be in the correct belief system...

If it wasn't for their geographic location, culture they are born into, parents, and any number of other factors... they would not believe in the god they do...

If you were born in india, you'd most likely be Hindu... Saudi Arabia, you'd most likely be muslim... and so on...

suppose you were born to a remote tribe in the Amazon Basin... you'd grow up thinking that THEIR gods are right... and would be debating a completely different point of view...

with that said... how is it possible for anyone to say with the conviction they do, that they believe in the "one true god".

Given how close you could have came to a completely different point of view... Are people born into other religions excluded from having a nice afterlife?

This is one of the reasons religion is dying... Religion hasn't "evolved" (heh heh, can't think of a better word) with the times, and can't possibly keep up with a growing global worldview...

Globalization is one reason, there are plenty of other factors as well...



posted on Feb, 22 2009 @ 02:20 PM
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reply to post by thrashee
 


Damn...
Why are you so pissed off...
Nj2day told you numerous times that he does not want to debate something which you can wiggle your way out of and say "well what if God is"...
That's an assumption.
Let's keep this argument on the data we DO have and the logic we DO possess.
Surely, if a God exists, he must have created us to work like that.



posted on Feb, 22 2009 @ 02:28 PM
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reply to post by ALLis0NE
 


Hey ALLis0NE... Where's my money?!
Remember, I won that bet, and you owe me something in the neighborhood of 100 gazillion dollars? So yeah... Where's my money... It's cool, I'll wait


On topic:
It doesn't matter what we perceive to be good or evil, what matters is:
God: completely good
Satan: completely evil

So why did God create evil (his opinion of evil, not mine) when he's supposed to be all good?
Why have this great huge invisible struggle with Satan, when God is at fault to begin with?
And if pure evil came from pure good, doesn't that mean that pure good never existed to begin with?

[edit on 22-2-2009 by TruthParadox]



posted on Feb, 22 2009 @ 02:34 PM
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Originally posted by ALLis0NE
The Bible teaches that "Good = Construction, Evil = Destruction".


What if I construct something which is made for destruction?
What is that?
Because, yah... God did that...
I Guess your theory goes hippidy hop out the window like a little bunny?



posted on Feb, 22 2009 @ 02:40 PM
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Originally posted by TruthParadox

Originally posted by ALLis0NE
The Bible teaches that "Good = Construction, Evil = Destruction".


What if I construct something which is made for destruction?
What is that?
Because, yah... God did that...
I Guess your theory goes hippidy hop out the window like a little bunny?



You have just kicked yourself in the back...


When you construct something with intention of destruction, you are ultimately only making destruction.

Do you not think?



posted on Feb, 22 2009 @ 02:40 PM
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God/religion is one GREAT BIG "Slippery Slope Argument" (just google that for further study), right along with global warming, 9/11 and a few others worth mentioning. The only way you 'can' believe them is if you don't 'care' about facts or proof. Lots of fanatics running around these days.



posted on Feb, 22 2009 @ 02:41 PM
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Originally posted by TruthParadox

Originally posted by ALLis0NE
The Bible teaches that "Good = Construction, Evil = Destruction".


What if I construct something which is made for destruction?
What is that?
Because, yah... God did that...
I Guess your theory goes hippidy hop out the window like a little bunny?



I don't know. Let's think a minute. You are that all powerful being we are arguing about. You create beautiful beings to have fellowship with. (Angels) Instead of them blindly worshiping their creator you give them the ability to choose for themselves. You give them a mind to make choices. One of them decides that he wants your position. He convinces a third of the angels that this could be done. Why not just exterminate at this point? It must have something to do with a larger picture. You cast them out of your presence and onto earth I believe. I mean how would it look. You created these beings and then eliminated them.



posted on Feb, 22 2009 @ 02:50 PM
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Originally posted by ALLis0NE

Originally posted by TruthParadox

Originally posted by ALLis0NE
The Bible teaches that "Good = Construction, Evil = Destruction".


What if I construct something which is made for destruction?
What is that?
Because, yah... God did that...
I Guess your theory goes hippidy hop out the window like a little bunny?



You have just kicked yourself in the back...


When you construct something with intention of destruction, you are ultimately only making destruction.

Do you not think?


Wow...
Yeah... That was my point.
God is ultimately evil because he made the destroyer to destroy.
Thanks for proving my point for me
.



posted on Feb, 22 2009 @ 03:03 PM
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Originally posted by rekar
reply to post by ALLis0NE
 


Where is The quote from? Just an Inquiring mind.

rekar


I just made it up


And i didn't realise how bad I wrote that! My grammar was terrible. That'll teach me not to review my writing!



posted on Feb, 22 2009 @ 03:18 PM
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reply to post by ALLis0NE
 


And yes, I am very much an evolutionist and most definitely and aethist.

But that line I wrote which you quoted wasn't meant to be taken as some philosphical statement or devine meaning -- it was what chappy on the deserted island was saying about being confronted by the Powers That Be way up yonder.

His argument was, given the physical world around him, there was nothing to imply that any supreme being or 'God' had anything to do with existence or reality as he knew it. Only (traditional) scientific fields/genres of study could give decent or adequate explainations as to how everything came to be and why things worked as they do.

So if there *was* a God or Gods or whatever, then how could someone in his position ever be expected to believe in something that refuses to acknowledge it's own existence to him?

The religious do say, "God doesn't have to" or "God's existence is in everything and everything is part of him so that's how we know God exists", etc.

Which goes back to the circular logic argument.

EDIT: oh, and not to make it any more confusing, while I'm an aethist, I do consider myself very spiritual and fully believe in life after death and eternal energy/soul/lifeforce. I simply do not believe in any form of religion.

For me, religion and spiritually are completely different and have nothing to do with one another, though many people often try to link them. Again, just my opinion.



[edit on 22-2-2009 by noonebutme]



posted on Feb, 22 2009 @ 03:28 PM
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Originally posted by noonebutme
reply to post by ALLis0NE
 


EDIT: oh, and not to make it any more confusing, while I'm an aethist, I do consider myself very spiritual and fully believe in life after death and eternal energy/soul/lifeforce. I simply do not believe in any form of religion.

For me, religion and spiritually are completely different and have nothing to do with one another, though many people often try to link them. Again, just my opinion.

[edit on 22-2-2009 by noonebutme]



They are my thoughts exactly. I do not think religion is what God is hoping us to have. I believe He wants a relationship...Not a strict by the list regiment of how to appease Him.



posted on Feb, 22 2009 @ 03:29 PM
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Originally posted by ALLis0NE
The Bible teaches that "Good = Construction, Evil = Destruction".


See, now that's terrible, that's certainly not what people should interpret from the Bible (not that I'm a fan of it in anyway, but in it's defense....)

Depending on one's point of view, not everything that constructs is good and not everything that destroys is bad.

Antibiotics help to destroy infections (killing a life form that has every right to exist) and said lifeforms in your body multiple and create more of themselves which harm your health.

That's obviously a very basic example.



posted on Feb, 22 2009 @ 03:42 PM
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A lot of people don't believe in a God because of all the mixed messages that everyone in the world gave to them. Some reason they think God only exists in a "religion", however they don't know that God also exists outside of religion as well. It's a hard concept to understand for most.

"God" is only a noun, and the definition for the word "God" is the biggest conspiracy of the entire world.

Everyone has their own definition for the word "God", and even if you look it up in the dictionary, and post it on a forum like I did, still nobody is going to accept just the basic definition of the word. They always have to insert their own randomly selected opinion of the defintion.

What most people don't know, and most people don't even care to entertain the thought of, is that the word "God" was just a very simple way of saying "ALL THAT IS". Meaning literally, "LIFE". Not just animal life, plant life, or other things we define as "alive", but ACTUAL EXISTANCE OF ALL THINGS.

No strings attached, no rules or commandments to follow, no guidelines, no decades old hand-me-down scriptures, no "religion"... just a definition for the word "God", which was meant to be "THE TOTAL OF ALL BEING, AND ALL THAT IS AND EVER WILL BE".

I don't think there is another name for it besides "God". Technically, at the current knowledge level of most humans, you can call it "The Universe". However, that would only include a finite space of the known, when "ALL THAT IS" also includes "all that is not known".

If you start with a clean slate, and only use the above basic definition of God, then you will know that God exists outside of "religion" too..

Once you realize that the word "God" exists, and you know the basic simple definition of the word "God", there is no denying that it is an actual word with an actual meaning, and it's meaning exists.

So if someone asks, "Does God exist?" the answer is technically "YES, LIFE/GOD EXISTS".

---

Knowing the above could help decrypt a lot of meaning in almost every single religion.

---

Also, I'm male, not female.

ALL-is-0NE



posted on Feb, 22 2009 @ 03:48 PM
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reply to post by ALLis0NE
 


Actually, I quite fully agree with you. As I don't believe in God in a religious sense -- the anthropormorphic ideal we humans attribute to it -- I do believe in energy and life as an eternal force we're all part.

I just highly resent the idea of a 'God' that is sentient and knowing and judging of other things. It simply doesn't make sense.

But something that is impartial, eternal, always there which you're a part of, regardless of who you are or what you believe or what you do.



posted on Feb, 22 2009 @ 03:55 PM
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reply to post by ALLis0NE
 


Why not just say "All that is" rather than God?
You must know that you will cause confusion by saying God.
If I tried to prove that Zeus exists by saying that the Universe exists, I'm sure you would think I was a nut.
People aren't always going to accept your own personal definition.
The widely accepted meaning of "God" is the omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent creator who made us in his image and sent his son Jesus... etc etc...
You can't say that God exists just by saying our universe exists.
You can only say that our universe exists because our universe exists...

What you're 'arguing' now isn't being argued by anyone else.
I'd say that most of us can agree that we live in the universe and the universe exists...
What we don't agree on is the words in the Bible and the God described therein.

Just sayin', you're going to get a lot of flak by calling our universe, multiverse, or whatever by the name of God - I'm sure you've found this out already...



posted on Feb, 22 2009 @ 04:03 PM
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Who says one's future is already written? Accidents and coincidences don't just happen for no reason in my opinion. Perhaps we may seem to have an illusion of free will but in the end we all are following a well thought plan that we don't really have control of.



posted on Feb, 22 2009 @ 05:07 PM
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Originally posted by TruthParadox
Why not just say "All that is" rather than God?
You must know that you will cause confusion by saying God.


Because believe it or not "all that is" still doesn't fully describe "all that is, all that isn't, and all there ever will be", and could cause even more confusion...

The true definition of "God" is infinite, no other words fully accurately describe it, but it itself.



Originally posted by TruthParadox
The widely accepted meaning of "God" is the omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent creator who made us in his image and sent his son Jesus... etc etc...


If just for a moment you entertain the thought of "God" being "All that is, and all there ever will be", doesn't "all that is" include "all energy that exists", and "all power that exists"? Sure it does...

Omnipotent = All Powerful

With that same definition of "God", if you account for "all that is", that includes "all knowledge that is" too...

Omniscient = The capacity to know everything infinitely.

Also, that same definition explains that "all that is, and all there ever will be" includes "all of space, all locations, all everything that is around you, all of emptiness, all of every spot your mind could dream".

Omnipresence = The property of being present everywhere.

"All that is" also includes ALL forces you believe to have helped create you, and make you exist, including the theory of evolution.



Originally posted by TruthParadox
You can't say that God exists just by saying our universe exists.


By standard definition you actually can... If "God" is "all that is, and everything there ever will be", that also means that "God is the universe, and every universes that will ever exist and not exist".


Originally posted by TruthParadox
What you're 'arguing' now isn't being argued by anyone else.
I'd say that most of us can agree that we live in the universe and the universe exists...


"All that is, and all there ever will be" includes the universe.



Originally posted by TruthParadox
Just sayin', you're going to get a lot of flak by calling our universe, multiverse, or whatever by the name of God - I'm sure you've found this out already...


No... "All that is" made me say it....




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