Proving God to be fake... In under ten seconds...

Originally posted by Gregor100
www.youtube.com...

If you cant be bothered going to youtube the video says this:

"The god of the bible is claimed to be omnipotent and omniscient.

If you can change the future you are not omniscient.

If you cannot you are not omnipotent.

Myth busted"

Pretty hard evidence right there....

Edit - Well spotted out i mis-quoted... wooops..

[edit on 19/2/09 by Gregor100]

It is very unintelligent for any human being to assume that there is not a Creator; Let alone, trying to disprove one.

That being said, I will quote Albert Einstein, "There are two things that I have found that are infinite, the Universe, and Human Stupidity, and I'm not sure about Human Stupidity!"

Take Care, and peace be with you.

5th element, if someone said that to me, it would be rare, because I don't push anything on people who don't want to hear.

I live my faith and stay to myself, teaching those who want to listen.

so i do shut the H up all the time.


silence is good.




now as for this. Truth paradox)

Say something random right now!
You could say: blkaduoifjkwoidjfa
But that's not random... It's a result of your mind in which the variables deciding that 'random' sequence can not be seen- but they none-the-less exist.


It all comes down to this badmedia:

Do you think that you can form a thought which is independent of the Universe?
Do you think you can make a choice that doesn't rely on your thoughts which are directly tied to your experiences?
Can you make a choice that couldn't be accurately predicted 100% of the time by an omniscient being, due to the fact that he could see the variables that effect you?

Argue that, if anything... But you will find it extremely hard to convince anyone that you can pull a thought out of thin air.




Originally posted by badmedia
Truth is, you are blind to the truth, and just like the bible says you are unable to see the truth, and so you deny it in others. We deny in others what we lack.




What truth? Your truth?
We are all blind to the truth of our Universe.
It's a riddle that no one should claim to have solved.
We are only human...





Son, speak plain english. This is not some math equasion we are trying to figure out. Firstly this makes no sense. Secondly choice cannot be forced. We have options and we have the ability to chose on our own.

me and you know about hell, yet I chose to believe in Christ and you don't/ Nobody has a gun to my head.

Don't try and be too msart for your own good. I see that stuff everywhere in ats and the internet. People braining themsleves to death and being too smart to embrace the God that is so simple.


God loves the childlike and the simple. The unlearned. Do you know the reason why?

it all comes down to humility and to ability to put ourselves below God and not let our finite minds ruin our souls because that which is infinite our minds cannot grasp.

you can try all day long to figure God out but it aint happening.


God will give you the answers after death.

reply to post by badmedia

Are you trying to insinuate that being a Christian automatically means you have a relationship with the father?

Are you perhaps insinuating that I was a poser who only showed up for free bread and wine? Someone who had no interest in prayer or worship? Youthgroup leader? Cos you'd be wrong.

Christianity is an anti-Christ religion and the one that was warned of.

Ah. That's not fair. It's much more fun arguing rationally.

reply to post by onehappyangel

It is very unintelligent for any human being to assume that there is not a Creator; Let alone, trying to disprove one.

That being said, I will quote Albert Einstein, "There are two things that I have found that are infinite, the Universe, and Human Stupidity, and I'm not sure about Human Stupidity!"

That being said, I will quote Albert Einstein, "The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this."

" Omnipresent "


God sees all, yet is not in all.

very simple. The people in hell don't see God, God might see them, but they are not filled with love and him.

when I say seperation, I mean in spirit. Not by seeing a guy on a throne seperation.

Being in communion with God.

reply to post by JesusisTruth


No, the word for all-seeing is "omniscient".

Omnipresent, on the other hand, is defined by something being everywhere all at the same time.

Therefore there is nowhere one can be without God being present. Hell must then be nowhere, so non-existent.

Self contradicting religions can be so frustraiting sometimes.



[edit on 24/2/2009 by Good Wolf]

Originally posted by Good Wolf
reply to post by badmedia

 

Are you trying to insinuate that being a Christian automatically means you have a relationship with the father?

Are you perhaps insinuating that I was a poser who only showed up for free bread and wine? Someone who had no interest in prayer or worship? Youthgroup leader? Cos you'd be wrong.

You obviously were, just like the majority of Christians are. They don't know any better, and neither do you.

Are you trying to say that you have been lying in this thread the entire time when you say there is no god? Kind of hard to claim you've had a personally relationship with god, while at the same time claiming that such doesn't exist.

So yes, you are a poser.

Christianity is an anti-Christ religion and the one that was warned of.

Ah. That's not fair. It's much more fun arguing rationally.

You don't know. You've demonstrated that much.

[edit on 24-2-2009 by badmedia]

reply to post by badmedia

Are you trying to say that you have been lying in this thread the entire time when you say there is no god? Kind of hard to claim you've had a personally relationship with god, while at the same time claiming that such doesn't exist.

Sure it's hard to make that claim, but there is a much easier claim to make. That at a time one believed they had a relationship with an invisible/undetectable individual, later realising that there is no evidence to suggest that said individual exists.

Such a claim does not make me a liar.

You obviously were

...Obviously. Wow with an objective argument like that, how can I not be convinced you're right.

Obviously you're a moron. See what I did there?

just like the majority of Christians are. They don't know any better

Not going to disagree with you on that one, however.

[edit on 24/2/2009 by Good Wolf]

Originally posted by JesusisTruth

" Omnipresent "


God sees all, yet is not in all.

very simple. The people in hell don't see God, God might see them, but they are not filled with love and him.

when I say seperation, I mean in spirit. Not by seeing a guy on a throne seperation.

Being in communion with God.

Lies. God was with me all the time, the only difference is I didn't realize it until recently.

Souls and consciousness only come from a single source.

That you would deny it in others only reveals you lack understanding yourself.

Have you ever heard the footprints poem?

Originally posted by Good Wolf
Sure it's hard to make that claim, but there is a much easier claim to make. That at a time one believed they had a relationship with an invisible/undetectable individual, later realising that there is no evidence to suggest that said individual exists.

Such a claim does not make me a liar.

Then obviously you didn't have a relationship with the father. Otherwise you would have known for sure. The father is not invisible, I've seen "him", and he spoke directly too me.

I don't doubt you previously bought a lie. The way the christian religion as a whole does things, it is a lie. If you want to know whats going to happen to the Christian church, read Matthew 7 and Rev 3:10.

It is the church of Satan. A religion design to manipulate the truth and hide it. It does this by putting all the importance on external symbols and physical replacements for spiritual things.

The "church" for example, is a synagogue. The real church is built upon knowledge and wisdom and is within you, not some external and physical building. But the Christian religion will never teach you this, because they want you to be ignorant and only follow what men tell you to do.

All of it manipulations that keep you from seeing the truth. Jesus says you will have to seek to find the truth in this world. Was the bible and Christianity handed to you? Or did you have to search for it? It's feed to anyone dumb enough to eat it.

Basically what you do is like someone selling you a soybean burger, tells you it's real meat. You try and act like it tastes good, because those around you seem to enjoy it. All the while you are secretly thinking it tastes like crap. And so you reject burgers saying they taste bad. And yet, the kicker is - you've never really tasted a real burger. And all the while, you go around claiming burgers are nasty, based not on what a real burger tastes like, but based on the artificial replacement someone sold to you as a burger.

And so, you reject all of this based not on the truth, but based on the lie you once bought as the truth. Which is fine with those in charge and is the intent of the manipulation to begin with, just so long as you don't see the truth.

You obviously were

...Obviously. Wow with an objective argument like that, how can I not be convinced you're right.

Obviously you're a moron. See what I did there?

Maybe, but I really don't care what your opinion of me is. But sorry, you can't claim to have once had a personal relationship with god and then at the same time say no such thing exists.

reply to post by badmedia

you can't claim to have once had a personal relationship with god and then at the same time say no such thing exists.

That's a cowardly argument hinging on something that is not evident. I don't claim to have ever had a personal relationship with god because I can't have a relationship with someone who doesn't exist.

I claimed to once have been convinced that I did but I'm not convinced of that any more.

And so, you reject all of this based not on the truth, but based on the lie you once bought as the truth.

There's more to it than that. I believed in god long after I stopped being a christian, I was agnostic for a good while. But the question haunted me, "why do I believe what I believe?" My entire life I had no real reason to believe a god exists, the only reason I still believed was simply because I was clinging to the comfort of theism and a belief in the afterlife. At the time I'd rather believe something that was more comforting than real. I believed in God out of fear and that's no reason to believe in something.

I had no good reason to believe anymore, so why should I.

Then obviously you didn't have a relationship with the father. Otherwise you would have known for sure.

Same thing could be said of everyone. You can't "Know" something "for sure" if it's based entirely on subjective experience. Everything I experienced faith-wise is explainable as psychological. Why should I believe other wise?

After all, Faith by definition is belief without evidence. You can't know anything in faith. You can't know anything without evidence, something that god neglects to leave about the place.

Maybe, but I really don't care what your opinion of me is.

Wasn't the point I was making. I don't know you, but I can spot a fallacy.


[edit on 24/2/2009 by Good Wolf]

Originally posted by Good Wolf
reply to post by badmedia

 

Maybe, but I really don't care what your opinion of me is. But sorry, you can't claim to have once had a personal relationship with god and then at the same time say no such thing exists.

That's a cowardly argument hinging on something that is not evident. I don't claim to have ever had a personal relationship with god because I can't have a relationship with someone who doesn't exist.

I claimed to once have been convinced that I did but I'm not convinced of that any more.

You don't exist? I think therefore I AM. I AM! I AM! I AM!

Same thing could be said of everyone. You can't "Know" something "for sure" if it's based entirely on subjective experience. Everything I experienced faith-wise is explainable as psychological. Why should I believe other wise?

After all, Faith by definition is belief without evidence. You can't know anything in faith. You can't know anything without evidence, something with god neglects to leave about the place.

My experience is proof for me, not for you. But you deny it in me only because you lack it yourself. Did your teacher allow other people to do your work for your in school? Or did you have to take your own tests? And yet, now you ask for others to do your work for you and prove god to you.

Take your own test, do your own work or fail. Up to you I guess.



[edit on 24-2-2009 by badmedia]

reply to post by badmedia

You don't exist?

You get a D- for observation. Reread the post. Also on dialup, youtube videos aren't terribly useful.

My experience is proof for me

You mean proof enough for you.
Subjective experience is not equal to truth. It's why we have the scientific method. To bad it requires actual evidence.

And yet, now you ask for others to do your work for you and prove god to you.

No, I don't ask anyone to prove god to me, no one can- because god doesn't leave evidence to do that with. However the faithfulls try to prove him to me anyway. They want to do the work for me forgetting that that can't work.

[edit on 24/2/2009 by Good Wolf]

Originally posted by JesusisTruth
Son, speak plain english. This is not some math equasion we are trying to figure out. Firstly this makes no sense. Secondly choice cannot be forced. We have options and we have the ability to chose on our own.

I am speaking plain english .
Yes, we have options. But that's irrelevant when dealing with an omniscient and omnipotent creator... Because he is responsible for the Universe and everything in it. Judgment becomes pointless when you see the truth.

Originally posted by JesusisTruth
me and you know about hell, yet I chose to believe in Christ and you don't/ Nobody has a gun to my head.

lol...
But doesn't Jesus have a gun to your head?
Is it free-will to say: "You can believe whatever you want but I'll torture you for eternity if you don't believe in what I say." ?

Originally posted by JesusisTruth
Don't try and be too msart for your own good. I see that stuff everywhere in ats and the internet. People braining themsleves to death and being too smart to embrace the God that is so simple.

Every deity is 'so simple'. That's not a testament to it's truth...
The idea of pink unicorns is simple. But which is logical, to simply accept their existence, or to reason things out and come to a conclusion based on data?

Originally posted by JesusisTruth
you can try all day long to figure God out but it aint happening.

Same with Santa Claus lol...
But I do see many flaws in the faith.
I choose not to ignore them.

Originally posted by JesusisTruth
God will give you the answers after death.

mkay .

Originally posted by badmedia
But sorry, you can't claim to have once had a personal relationship with god and then at the same time say no such thing exists.

You can if said god doesn't exist and is indeed a fabrication of the mind.

Our mind defines what is real to us.
The fact that you won't even for a second allow the possibility - even 0.0001%, tells me that you are not looking at things logically or without bias.

In such a state of mind, you WILL be convinced that the voice you hear is God.

You KNOW there must be other possibilities, as you are not all knowing, and yet you don't even allow them - that's the flaw of religion.

Originally posted by Good Wolf

My experience is proof for me

You mean proof enough for you.
Subjective experience is not equal to truth. It's why we have the scientific method. To bad it requires actual evidence.

Science can only explain action and reaction, and god is not on a level of action and reaction. Anything which is not repeatable 100% of the time is void of science. As such, anything beyond the construct of action and reaction is outside the realm of science, and science is not equipped to deal with it.

You would make a scientist cringe, as do most of the people who go around tooting science to be the end all of everything.

You quoted Einstein before. Well here's a quote for Einstein just for you - Any fool can know, the point is to understand.

And yet, now you ask for others to do your work for you and prove god to you.

No, I don't ask anyone to prove god to me, no one can- because god doesn't leave evidence to do that with.

However the faithfulls try to prove him to me anyway. They want to do the work for me forgetting that that can't work.

You just in the previous paragraph asked me to prove god for you. You told me I needed evidence. Why does one need evidence? To prove something to you?

Originally posted by TruthParadox
You can if said god doesn't exist and is indeed a fabrication of the mind.

Our mind defines what is real to us.
The fact that you won't even for a second allow the possibility - even 0.0001%, tells me that you are not looking at things logically or without bias.

In such a state of mind, you WILL be convinced that the voice you hear is God.

You KNOW there must be other possibilities, as you are not all knowing, and yet you don't even allow them - that's the flaw of religion.

Who said anything about hearing a voice. I had my entire consciousness pulled into another dimension. A full on vision. That is the only time the father has spoken to me, or that I have seen him. And then he only asked me 1 single question. And no, it was not a NDE or anything, I was perfectly fine when it happened, and have never been close to death ever in my life, or even been seriously injured with life threatening things.

And when that happened, I thought I was going crazy. And probably still would if not for all the information and understandings I gained after the fact.

I allow for all things. If you want a life without god, then that is exactly what you will get. All of reality is subjective to the things you mention, all of it. Including science and everything else you rely on.

Truth is, I am god and I am arguing with myself. You tell me I do not exist, and I know otherwise. And you can take that as me being arrogant, proud or whatever, but it only goes to show how much you do not understand. Hint: It's not just in me, it's in everything, thus why I am arguing with myself.

I've been to the bottom of the rabbit hole. Which is found within, not out there.

So it's not like I walk around with some voice in my head telling me what to do. It's very much the opposite of that. The father gives wisdom and understanding, so that you can do things on your own the right way. If he wanted to just tell us all what to do, then we wouldn't have free will and such to being with.






[edit on 24-2-2009 by badmedia]

reply to post by badmedia

And because god would be metaphysical instead of physical, science can't say anything about god, not that he doesn't exist. The scientific method is a method for building knowledge and refining it to make it more accurate. Unfortunately because science can't make metaphysical observations, there exists no method with the capacity to prove or disprove God.

Evidence for god and against god is on equal standing; non-existent. What reason is there to believe in god when belief in the flying spaghetti monster is just as reasonable and rational.

Why does one need evidence? To prove something to you?

There is no proof without evidence. There is no objective belief without some evidence.

A full on vision

Oh well that can in no way be explained as a psych/neurological event. Man, why didn't you say something sooner?!

Please, visions? :bnghd:

[edit on 24/2/2009 by Good Wolf]

Originally posted by Good Wolf
reply to post by badmedia

 

And because god would be metaphysical instead of physical, science can't say anything about god, not that he doesn't exist. The scientific method is a method for building knowledge and refining it to make it more accurate. Unfortunately because science can't make metaphysical observations, there exists no method with the capacity to prove or disprove God.

Evidence for god and against god is on equal standing; non-existent. What reason is there to believe in god when belief in the flying spaghetti monster is just as reasonable and rational.

YOU ARE GOD.

There is no proof without evidence. There is no objective belief without some evidence.

As I said, you expect others to prove it for you.

A full on vision

Oh well that can in no way be explained as a psych/neurological event. Man, why didn't you say something sooner?!

Please, visions? :bnghd:

Do you realize the exact same could be said of you? I'm not even sure why you are even discussing this, according to you there is no choice. So how can you fault me or anyone else for what we say if we have no choice in the matter? Unless you are to say I am choosing this?

My guess = because you are full of it.

reply to post by badmedia

YOU ARE GOD.

Aw shucks.

As I said, you expect others to prove it for you.

No, I expect no one to prove it. You're not listening,

I'm not even sure why you are even discussing this, according to you there is no choice.

No there is choice, just no free will. You choose, but your choice is predetermined. Again, you weren't listening.

[edit on 24/2/2009 by Good Wolf]