Proving God to be fake... In under ten seconds...

I severly doubt the ultimate structure of the expansion and collapse of universes has a conciousness. That whole he... she... isnt it time we move past the "santa clause eats the cookies" mentality?

Originally posted by SugarCube
It is a giant leap to assume that Christian principles, as indicated in the Bible, are in anyway "absolute" and correct. I think that people may agree with you in terms of the "equated" theory but disagree with you on the supremacy of the Bible, taken as fact.

When did I ever say the Bible was "absolute" correct??

If you knew the reality of it ALL, you wouldn't even need a Bible to understand these simple principles.

If you are going to incorrectly state what you think I am trying to say, I can no longer hold a conversation with you...

Why does everyone think I am Christian? Because I have a quote from the Bible in my signature?


NEWS FLASH.

All ideas, thoughts, books, movies, poems, music, etc... is inspired by light and darkness. God is the light and darkness. However "darkness" only exists to humans, in God there is no darkness, only light.

reply to post by ALLis0NE

Why does everyone think I am Christian?

Because you have the dogmatic aggression typical of hardcore Christians, you fail to differentiate between fact and opinion and you quote the bible.

reply to post by Wertdagf


Surely this depends on the definition of conciousness? Again, this uses the primacy of may as an implicit focus. Conciousness of a supreme being would be very different from that of a man, surely?

Could not the very laws of physics be rendered as a form of conciousness, each particle acting in awareness of others by virtue of a group dynamic.

Can we really prove that human conciousness is not simply a product of awareness of our surroundings? If not, then we move into the realms of the "external soul" which is a whole different thread, hehe!

Originally posted by Good Wolf
reply to post by nj2day

 

I've not thought about it much like that before. Though I see a sort of unresolvable mutual exclusivity between Christianity and pan/deism.

Christianity requires the assumption that God has a plan in concordance with his lucid involvement in the Bible and him sending Jesus etc. But that all conflicts with those who believe in an unconscious naturalistic God.

Hmm. Food for thought.

Yah, there's a certain level of conflict between deism, and all of the Abrahamic religions... (Judeism, christianity and islam). But this is more because all the major religions seek to define "god" in ways that are incompatable with the deistic approach...

Abrahamic religions rely on a conscious all powerful entity, that enjoys dabbling in human affairs...

I suppose if one left the dogma of these major religions, they could find some way to reconcile everything, but it isn't anything the mainstream of these religions would believe... In fact, they might quite well find it to be heretical.

reply to post by SugarCube


The whole concept of the soul was created and is maintained through ignorance. Just because you dont understand how blinking nerves in your head creates emotions and thoughts doesnt mean theres a magical fairy in your head pulling ethereal strings.

Originally posted by Wertdagf
I severly doubt the ultimate structure of the expansion and collapse of universes has a conciousness.

Why would you doubt that?

Your brain is made of electrons, protons, neutrons, and other energy, and it has a consciousness.

The entire structure of universe, is made of the same thing as your brain, but is much larger..... 1+1=2

I always tell people "we are in God's mind", literally.

[edit on 22-2-2009 by ALLis0NE]

reply to post by nj2day


I got involved in a discussion with several other atheists a wee while ago and we all had certain irreconcilable differences in perspectives. The difference though was that at the end of it none of us really cared about the differences, we were all atheist so there was no imperative to have any sorta unifying doctrine.

[edit on 22/2/2009 by Good Wolf]

reply to post by ALLis0NE


.... so when somone has brain cells die its the suns all running out of fuel? Obviously that pretty picture you took from the spaceship came out really nice. Im glad you could share this amazing proof.

Wow just thought of this. Imagine yourself as this almighty being you guys are arguing about. You are able to do anything, you need nothing and anything your will desires, you know the consequences of before you initiate your will. You create everything in one brief moment knowing and seeing everything that will result from your actions...Even this thread...I for one am glad He is a loving and understanding God...

Proverbs 8: 13-17

22The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way,
before his works of old.
23I was set up from everlasting,
from the beginning,
or ever the earth was.
24When there were no depths, I was brought forth;
when there were no fountains abounding with water.
25Before the mountains were settled,
before the hills was I brought forth:
26while as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields,
nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
27When he prepared the heavens, I was there:
when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
28when he established the clouds above:
when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
29when he gave to the sea his decree,
that the waters should not pass his commandment:
when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
30then I was by him,
as one brought up with him:
and I was daily his delight,
rejoicing always before him;
31rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth;
and my delights were with the sons of men.

For some reason I feel this is a prophetic verse about Jesus. It makes me happy so I figured I would share it. It is about Jesus no?

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is impotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Whence then is evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
Epicurus 340 - 270 BCE

reply to post by jackflap


So why does god let innocent ethiopian children starve again? O yeah its probobly beacuse they didnt accept jesus and deserve to burn in hell after a long painfull death. Whew glad i reasoned that out like a good ignorant religous nut.

reply to post by karl 12

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is impotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Whence then is evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
Epicurus 340 - 270 BCE

I'm so glad someone quoted that! Thanks Karl.

Originally posted by ALLis0NE

I always tell people "we are in God's mind", literally.

[edit on 22-2-2009 by ALLis0NE]

Yes but as discussed in this other thread:

..the idea of 'the universe being one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively' does have some merit (although this may detract from the abrahamic opinion of god being 'outside' and not 'inside').
Also,results in quantum M theory seem to indicating that the universe is the result of two other (parent) universes glancing off each other - this may also refute long held assumptions about monotheism..

www.abovetopsecret.com...
Cheers.


[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]

Originally posted by Wertdagf
reply to post by jackflap

 

So why does god let innocent ethiopian children starve again? O yeah its probobly beacuse they didnt accept jesus and deserve to burn in hell after a long painfull death. Whew glad i reasoned that out like a good ignorant religous nut.

Romans 8: 18For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

God doesn't doubt your existence either you know...

reply to post by jackflap

God doesn't doubt your existence either you know...

...Says you.

Originally posted by Good Wolf
reply to post by karl 12

 

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is impotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Whence then is evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
Epicurus 340 - 270 BCE

I'm so glad someone quoted that! Thanks Karl.

That was brought up already wasn't it ? I made a half baked attempt at looking at it seriously if you haven't seen it.

That is mind bending. I know I said I wouldn't interject but I wanted to ask why you would be limiting what God can do?

I mean think of this for a second. Every time something bad was about to happen the circumstances around the event change so that no evil happens. Someone gets pushed in front of a car and magically the car hops over this individual with no injuries to anyone. A murderers bullet stops in mid-air and falls to the ground before impacting its victim. The words that are meant to be curse words come out as sweet as honey and edify all that can hear.

We would think this is the norm and just go with it as the normal ins and outs of life. We would be programmed into not doing evil. We would be then saying that this isn't fair to us. I really wanted to get that guy but poof there goes my clinched fist holding a bouquet of roses. This has to stop! Unless I am seeing it wrong.

Let's see, He created us and instead of having us meandering around the planet on a pre-programmed chain of events executed to precision....(This wouldn't be fair by the way)...He gave us an ability to see right and wrong and the choice to follow Him...

I don't know what do ya think. Too many holes in it huh?

Originally posted by jackflap
Romans 8: 18For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

On quoting scripture:

reply to post by jackflap


I can only hope you get the buisness end of your broken logic. Maybe then youll wake up and get off your knees. I have a theory that religion is causeing genetic deformations that increse brain atraphy.

[edit on 22-2-2009 by Wertdagf]

Originally posted by Wertdagf
reply to post by jackflap

 

I can only hope you get the buisness end of your broken logic. Maybe then youll wake up and get off your knees. I have a theory that religion is causeing genetic deformalitys that increse brain atraphy.

I will certainly look into that...If I could just get around this odd genetic deformality I have in the way...If nothing else I see you are dedicated and that is a good trait. God gave you that...