Proving God to be fake... In under ten seconds...

Originally posted by SugarCube
I think that the statements of amorality are probably correct. To classify once action as "good" or "evil" is to assume that the context of this action is always the same. To shoot and kill somebody in defence of your own life may be termed "good" but, what if it a burglar that shoots and kills when faced with a householder with a gun. There is no absolute good or evil.

This is where you and others fail.....

The Bible, and Jesus, and God, teach that even in "self defense" KILLING is EVIL.

Jesus tried to show that by not killing everyone in "self defense" when he was being crucified. Even if you don't believe in Jesus, the the story of him is trying to teach you to LOVE THY NEIGHBOR, TREAT OTHERS HOW YOU WANT TO BE TREATED, and for God's sake, LOVE THY ENEMY!

When you kill someone in "self defense" you are KILLING A PART OF YOURSELF, because everything is ONE.


[edit on 22-2-2009 by ALLis0NE]

Circular logic at it's best.

Originally posted by ALLis0NE

Originally posted by SugarCube
I think that the statements of amorality are probably correct. To classify once action as "good" or "evil" is to assume that the context of this action is always the same. To shoot and kill somebody in defence of your own life may be termed "good" but, what if it a burglar that shoots and kills when faced with a householder with a gun. There is no absolute good or evil.

This is where you and others fail.....

The Bible, and Jesus, and God, teach that even in "self defense" KILLING is EVIL.

Jesus tried to show that by not killing everyone in "self defense" when he was being crucified. Even if you don't believe in Jesus, the the story of him is trying to teach you to LOVE THY NEIGHBOR, TREAT OTHERS HOW YOU WANT TO BE TREATED, and for God's sake, LOVE THY ENEMY!

When you kill someone in "self defense" you are KILLING A PART OF YOURSELF, because everything is ONE.


[edit on 22-2-2009 by ALLis0NE]

I gotta say it...I don't wanna...but I...must...say

Only a Sith deals in Absolutes!!!

Love thy neighbor, love thy enemy...you got a weird way of loving me AllisOne....I never been called a cancer before, I might have to put that in my signature

[edit on 22-2-2009 by Gigatronix]

reply to post by ALLis0NE


Is that why Jesus instructed followers to buy a sword and if they couldn't afford it, sell their shirt?


Also the golden rule? Really? You realise that Confucius was spouting the same mantra 200 years before JC was born. Add to that the fact that it is fundamentally flawed. How I want to be treated is not always how other people want to be treated.

Say a masochist walks into a bar. Following the golden rule, he aught to punch the first person he sees in the head.

Originally posted by Good Wolf
Is that why Jesus instructed followers to buy a sword and if they couldn't afford it, sell their shirt?

For defense. When peter strikes the man in anger, Jesus heals the man's ear.

Also the golden rule? Really? You realise that Confucius was spouting the same mantra 200 years before JC was born. Add to that the fact that it is fundamentally flawed. How I want to be treated is not always how other people want to be treated.

And many others have said it too. It seems the truth remains basically the same, only the messengers and idols change from culture to culture.

Say a masochist walks into a bar. Following the golden rule, he aught to punch the first person he sees in the head.

Also, treating others as you would be treated means not infringing on the free will of others. If you love something then you set it free. And that is how you want to be treated, with freedom, and so that is how you should treat others. Live and let live.

You think you are separate from Earth....

Truth is, the air that runs through your lungs constantly is a part of Earth, and you at the same time. The food that keeps you alive is a part of the Earth, and you, at the same time. The water you drink is a part of the Earth, and is 75% of you. You are attached to this Earth like you were attached to your mother during pregnancy. To stop breathing air, and to stop eating and drinking, is to cut the umbilical cord of Earth. You are woven through this Earth, and are far from separate from it. You are an extension of Earth.

This is true for everyone on Earth.

Earth is 1 body, with many minds. Just like you are 1 body with many thoughts.

This is a picture of YOU:


DO YOU DISAGREE?

[edit on 22-2-2009 by ALLis0NE]

reply to post by badmedia

For defense. When peter strikes the man in anger, Jesus heals the man's ear.

Such was the point I was making.

And many others have said it too. It seems the truth remains basically the same, only the messengers and idols change from culture to culture.

It would be simpler to treat others as they would like to be treated, not as I would like to be, that way it's less narcissistic.

[edit on 22/2/2009 by Good Wolf]

reply to post by ALLis0NE

Truth is, the air that runs through your lungs constantly is a part of Earth

No it isn't. It's the atmosphere about my person, the Earth is a hunk of rock orbiting the sun. They are not the same.

and you at the same time.

No, neither are me.

The food that keeps you alive is a part of the Earth

No, it grows on the Earth, they are not the same etc etc.

To stop breathing air, and to stop eating and drinking, is to cut the umbilical cord of Earth. You are woven through this Earth, and are far from separate from it. You are an extension of Earth.

Take me away from the Earth and I die, yet nothing happens to the earth. Relative to the Earth, I don't matter, therefore neither does my relationship with the Earth matter.

This is a picture of YOU:
external image

DO YOU DISAGREE?

Yes actually because that is Earth, whereas I am a human. Big difference.

None of this matters and none of this has anything to do with my earlier points.

[edit on 22/2/2009 by Good Wolf]

Actually. Speaking purely physyically.
Take you from the Earth the Earth loses valuable biomass. Material that makes up your body does not go back into the system. And while a drop in the bucket really it would still count as a loss.
Just a really really small one.

Originally posted by ALLis0NE
This is where you and others fail.....

Hi ALLisONE,

I think that you have assumed that I am a Christian, or at least an adherent to traditional religious thought. A check of some of my posts on other threads would confirm that I am in fact of the same thought as yourself - I actually adhere whole-heartedly to the principle of "ALL is One", however, I do not believe in the primacy of mankind of which the statement, "When you kill someone in 'self defense' you are KILLING A PART OF YOURSELF, because everything is ONE" is implicitly supporting.

Your implication is that the form of mankind is the acme of God's presence in a physical form, that is to deny the continuity of matter albeit changed in form and composition. To an omnipotent God, the change of form to "Man" to "Dust" is of no consequence except in the fulfilment of a higher purpose.

Jesus did *not* teach that killing in self-defence is wrong. It has been clearly indicated that he preferred peaceful protest to correct the influence of Rome also the corruption within the Jewish establishment, however, he understood that the sword was necessary when there was no alternative. All kudos to him in this respect.

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows

Just a really really small one.

Inconsequential as I was saying earlier, but yes you are right.

There is no escaping the fact that when you take the vantage point of something larger than us, we become smaller. Respective of a planet, we are completely inconsequential. Respective of a universe... well we not worth even thinking about.

reply to post by Good Wolf



Good Wolf, an excellent point and I believe entirely correct. We can judge as "interesting" a rare development in any biological system. For us, climbing a rocky alpine slope and finding some edelweiss may be significant - a flower of complex form in an otherwise barren landscape. So it may be said of life on Earth in comparison to the rest of the Solar system. We are indeed insignificant but none-the-less an interesting development. We are *not* the primacy of development though.

To a supreme entity, we are no more interesting that a rock, a tree or a complex cloud of gases drifting through the Milky Way, which in turn is no more than another galaxy crashing into a neighbour over the course of billions of Earth years.

Until mankind recognises his place in the Universe there is no hope for the advance of civilisation. We are still p*ssing on stones to mark our territory and arguing over who has the biggest stick. We are still apes in the great scheme of things, highly dominant apes, but still subject to our primaeval instincts.

What difference is there in Jesus fighting to shake off the yoke of Rome and the current troubles in that part of the world? The actors are different, the lines have been rewritten but the drama of domination is still prevalent. Nothing has changed in the last 2000 years and it hadn't changed then from the previous 2000 years.

reply to post by Good Wolf


But also like I said to the microbes that we play host to we are the world. It is just a matter of perspective. And it is also worth noting that everything is made up of smaller things, and really no part is insignificant really, just as you adjust your scope for larger and larger a smaller and smaller part. But never insignificant.

Originally posted by Good Wolf
Is that why Jesus instructed followers to buy a sword and if they couldn't afford it, sell their shirt?

You took that WAY out of context, that is the problem with you people.....

You ignore the BIG messages, and you look at a small little irrelivant message to support you claim...

You might as well read Genisis and say "WOW LOOK GOD TOLD ABRAHAMA TO KILL IS OWN SON!!!", and you would be 100% correct, yes God did tell Abraham to kill his own son.......

...but you didn't even read the rest of the story, and your are completly leaving out the rest of the BIG message! It's like you only watched the beginning of the movie, and don't care about the end.

God was testing Abraham to see if he would obey God even if it meant killing his own son. Just as Abraham was about about to kill his own son, God stopped him and gave him and his son gifts for obeying. Do you see the big picture now?

Who am I kidding, you can't see past YOUR SELF.

Originally posted by Good Wolf
Also the golden rule? Really? You realise that Confucius was spouting the same mantra 200 years before JC was born.

Yes, almost every religion has the same exact origin....

Originally posted by Good Wolf
Add to that the fact that it is fundamentally flawed. How I want to be treated is not always how other people want to be treated.

It's only flawed because you don't undertsand what it means! You don't undertsand it, and don't claim you do because you already proven you dont!

The saying "treat others how you want to be treated" is assuming that you only want to do "common good" to yourself. If you are a sick basterd and you don't undertsand what "common good" is, and you would rather do "common evil" to yourself, then of course that logic doesn't make sense to you..

Originally posted by Good Wolf
Say a masochist walks into a bar. Following the golden rule, he aught to punch the first person he sees in the head.

Why are you ignoring all the other rules???! If you are going to follow the "treat others as you want to be treated" rule, you better understand the rest of the rules!!! "LOVE THY ENEMY, LOVE THY NEIGHBOR".......

THAT WAS THE MOST PATHETIC ATTEMPT AT DEBUNKING A 200+ YEAR OLD RULE OF COMMON SENSE, EVER!

The rules are made to all go together... when you pick one and ignore the others, you just set yourself up for conflict. You are creating your own "flaws".... get a clue.

reply to post by ALLis0NE


I think you were mistaken... I wasn't arguing the riddle of epicurus, I merely posted it as a response to conversation on how the OP could have came out stronger in his first post...

I just woke up... I'll have to have to finish a cup of coffee and catch up, than I'll respond to the posts I missed w/I was sleepin

Originally posted by Good Wolf
No it isn't. It's the atmosphere about my person, the Earth is a hunk of rock orbiting the sun. They are not the same.

The oxygen from air is running through your blood. You and the air are 0ne.

The "Earth" is not just "a hunk of rock", it is the entire planet as a whole, including all the air.

You would die without the Earth, or a planet like it, meaning the Earth is a part of your body. Just like you would die without your heart.

If you don't understand that, then I am putting you on ignore.....

Originally posted by Good Wolf
None of this matters and none of this has anything to do with my earlier points.

Actually all of it matters, but you don't have the mental ability to understand.

I'm done here, I'm obviously not talking to anyone with common sense.


[edit on 22-2-2009 by ALLis0NE]

reply to post by ALLis0NE


OOooo ALLisONE is getting angry. Lot's of ad hominems there. Quod erat demonstrandum:

Actually all of it matters, but you don't have the mental ability to understand.

I'm done here, I'm obviously not talking to anyone with common sense.

Common good. K so you take the simple rule "Treat others as you would be treated" and then apply over top your concept of 'common good' to make it more functional.

My version doesn't need any of your subtext. "Treat others as they would like to be treated" doesn't require any amends.

And yeah I know Abraham/Abram's story, not that we were talking about it. Man the old testament God was a prick. Look at what he did to Job just to try and win a bet with Satan. I thought God couldn't look upon evil, but he can barter with it? I am envious of such powers.

[edit on 22/2/2009 by Good Wolf]

reply to post by Good Wolf


I'm not getting angry, I am getting really depressed. Every day I see there is no hope for people like you. You will always be selfish.

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows

Originally posted by Good Wolf
If you look at the whole of reality, which you call ONE, we matter for naught.

We are the world to the bacteria and etc we play host to.

Makes you wonder... If bacteria was sentient... would they worship us as gods?

Originally posted by ALLis0NE
This is where you and others fail.....

The Bible, and Jesus, and God, teach that even in "self defense" KILLING is EVIL.

Jesus tried to show that by not killing everyone in "self defense" when he was being crucified. Even if you don't believe in Jesus, the the story of him is trying to teach you to LOVE THY NEIGHBOR, TREAT OTHERS HOW YOU WANT TO BE TREATED, and for God's sake, LOVE THY ENEMY!

When you kill someone in "self defense" you are KILLING A PART OF YOURSELF, because everything is ONE.


[edit on 22-2-2009 by ALLis0NE]

So we can take all the instances where god orders his people to commit genocide, kill women and children, kill soldiers, and orders the sacrifice of animals and such...

we can take all those times that god told people to do those things and chock him up in the "evil" column?