Proving God to be fake... In under ten seconds...

reply to post by ALLis0NE

I'm not getting angry, I am getting really depressed. Every day I see there is no hope for people like you. You will always be selfish.

A moment ago you called me mentally deficient, now your calling me selfish. Is this how you view all who disagree with your reasoning?

[edit on 22/2/2009 by Good Wolf]

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
Actually. Speaking purely physyically.
Take you from the Earth the Earth loses valuable biomass. Material that makes up your body does not go back into the system. And while a drop in the bucket really it would still count as a loss.
Just a really really small one.

Kind of... The earth gains about 40,000 metric tons of mass from cosmic/space debris anually...

so what was lost, will quickly be restored...

reply to post by Good Wolf


I was stating FACTS about Earth and Humans being ONE, and you disagree.

I was stating FACTS about common sense, and you disagree.

What do I call people that disagree with known facts???

Selfish is the only word in the dictionary that can describe what you look like to me. If you don't like being called selfish, maybe you should "treat others how you would like to be treated" so we don't have to try and read your mind...

Oh, one more thing, YOU ARE ON THE L1ST.

reply to post by nj2day


nj2day....

If you understood what "God" is, you wouldn't even have to ask questions like these.

If God is literally everything that exists, how can anything God does be wrong?

God can do whatever he wants to his own body. You are a part of his body, so he can do whatever he wants to you.



[edit on 22-2-2009 by ALLis0NE]

reply to post by nj2day


NJ, you might have to quote me so ALLinONE can see this, if she's ignored me (very christian thing to do huh?).

reply to post by ALLis0NE


Your argument is that we exist. We are made of the same stuff that everything else is made of, our material is part of systems of nature, out life is supported by these systems.

All that is perfectly true, it's the "We are made of stardust" philosophy and it's right. But you take it to another step where your argument parts from science fact to personal opinion.

You decide that Nature in totality is equal to God.

That's where your argument fails, it's a foregone conclusion and foregone conclusions are an ATS no-no.

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows


Maybe not insignificant to us and other earth inhabitants... but to the universe, or even the solar system as a whole, utterly insignificant...

Hopefully this will help put things in perspective for everyone

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/4b1de84b1ee89ddb.jpg[/atsimg]

This is a picture taken from a powerful telescope in mars orbit... this photo was taken at one of the CLOSEST points of orbit when it comes to earth...

Hopefully that puts things in perspective for everyone :p

If you find this picture in its entirety, its an even more telling picture... this has been zoomed in from the original snapshot...

I have the full size photo as my desktop wallpaper... on a 22" monitor, earth is smaller than a pencil eraser...




[edit on 22-2-2009 by nj2day]

reply to post by ALLis0NE

If you understood what "God" is, you wouldn't even have to ask questions like these.

If God is literally everything that exists, how can anything God does be wrong?

If God does what you describe as "common evil" then it's pretty wrong. But that aside I applaud the question dodge you just pulled.

Originally posted by Good Wolf
reply to post by nj2day

 

NJ, you might have to quote me so ALLinONE can see this, if she's ignored me (very christian thing to do huh?).

reply to post by ALLis0NE

 

Your argument is that we exist. We are made of the same stuff that everything else is made of, our material is part of systems of nature, out life is supported by these systems.

All that is perfectly true, it's the "We are made of stardust" philosophy and it's right. But you take it to another step where your argument parts from science fact to personal opinion.

You decide that Nature in totality is equal to God.

That's where your argument fails, it's a foregone conclusion and foregone conclusions are an ATS no-no.

I'm still catching up, but from what I can gather, Allinone might be a pantheist or a Deist...

Usually the biggest debates emerge and huge arguments ensue with the deists and atheists as a result of misunderstanding... They both think the same thing, only instead of calling it the cosmos, the insert the word "god".

I'm not sure though.. I'm still catching up... and waking my brain up with coffee But you guys MIGHT not be in as much disagreement as you think...

Originally posted by ALLis0NE
reply to post by nj2day

 

nj2day....

If you understood what "God" is, you wouldn't even have to ask questions like these.

If God is literally everything that exists, how can anything God does be wrong?

God can do whatever he wants to his own body. You are a part of his body, so he can do whatever he wants to you.

[edit on 22-2-2009 by ALLis0NE]

Hrm... maybe not so much a deist... as she personified "god" with the pronoun "he".

I'm still catching up and waking up allisone lol I could delve into discussion right now... but it would come out as incoherent nonsense...

coffee is a wonderful thing :p

Originally posted by Good Wolf
You decide that Nature in totality is equal to God.

That's where your argument fails, it's a foregone conclusion and foregone conclusions are an ATS no-no.

I never said the totality of only Nature is equal to God. That was actually your imagination making things up again so you can actually appear to have logical thoughts...

What I said was, EVERYTHING THAT EXISTS (and doesn't exist) IS GOD, and that is a FACT.

If you are wondering how it is a FACT, maybe you should look up the basic definition for God.

dictionary.reference.com...

1. the one Supreme Being, the creator and ruler of the universe.

For something to "be" it has to exist over multiple frames of reference. The Universe exists, so it is in a state of "being", and can be considered supreme...

The Universe, and Nature, created US. THAT IS A FACT. So The Universe and Nature, by definition is "our creator".

Ruler of the Universe? You bet.... The Universe(God) is the ruler of the Universe(himself).

Wow I just proved God exists by definition in 10 secs.

-Cue the demon replies-

reply to post by nj2day


Mislabelling can cause all sorts of divides, and I think you might be right but the real problem is that little nature = god foregone conclusion that I mentioned.

Originally posted by Good Wolf
If God does what you describe as "common evil" then it's pretty wrong. But that aside I applaud the question dodge you just pulled.

Once again, you are thinking like a human with flawed logic, and someone actually gave your flawed logic a star... lol....

"Common evil" is a term that really only applies for humans, not God. How can you not understand that???

"Common" means something similar to others... If God is the only thing that exists, what does he have in common, and who does God have it in common with???

--For clarification--

God is both female/male at the same time. God is light and dark. Nothing and Everything. Good and Bad. Negative and Positive. Alpha to Omega. Yin and Yang. Nothing and Everything, all at the same time.

[edit on 22-2-2009 by ALLis0NE]

reply to post by ALLis0NE


Do you happen to be a deist? Just out of curiosity...

Deists believe god is an unconscious natural god... or, as you like to put it, the universe...

If I take your post with the understanding that you are deist, than Atheists and Deists believe in the same thing...

It goes back to what I've mentioned many times over in many other threads... Its all how you define the word "god"

If everyone was allowed to come up with their own definition of "god" than everyone could agree that god exists, if that makes any sense.. (1.5 cups o joe down... slowly drifting towards reality )

So, perchance, are you a Deist or a Pantheist?

reply to post by ALLis0NE


So things exist and therefore God...

That's not fact, that's justification and rationalising. Yes...

"the one Supreme Being, the creator and ruler of the universe"

So if God is everything that exists (and doesn't) that means he created himself. That's an interesting piece of metaphysics.



And please cut the ad homs, you may not like me but you don't need to spend more than half your posts insulting me. Following the golden rule that must mean you want me to insult you. Take your own advice, buddy.

reply to post by ALLis0NE

"Common evil" is a term that really only applies for humans, not God. How can you not understand that???

But we are God, or at least a part of him and because I don't have a magical window into your imagination. These are specifically your concepts being applied to your perspective of reality.

God is both female/male at the same time. God is light and dark. Nothing and Everything. Good and Bad. Negative and Positive. Alpha to Omega. Yin and Yang. Nothing and Everything, all at the same time.

So he's good and bad but not right and wrong?

[edit on 22/2/2009 by Good Wolf]

Originally posted by Good Wolf
reply to post by nj2day

 

Mislabelling can cause all sorts of divides, and I think you might be right but the real problem is that little nature = god foregone conclusion that I mentioned.

Well to a deist, they define "god" as an unconscious, natural entity... this would be the cosmos, the laws of physics, natural law etc.. everything that goes into what we precieve as order/structure in the universe, is labeled "god".

This is along the same lines of what most atheists believe.. only they don't call it "god".

The best way to think of it from an atheist standpoint to avoid confusion is to treat the word "god" like any other word... deists don't assign their "god" any consciousness, divination, or supernatural abilities...

Like I said... When an atheist and a deist debate... its gets bloody... but only because there is a fundamental misunderstanding of the definitions...

reply to post by ALLis0NE


Hi ALLisONE,

I agree completely with your previous post in terms of its definition equating God with the Universe, however, this is in stark contrast to your posts concerning the role of and law of Christianity.

It is a giant leap to assume that Christian principles, as indicated in the Bible, are in anyway "absolute" and correct. I think that people may agree with you in terms of the "equated" theory but disagree with you on the supremacy of the Bible, taken as fact.

Surely you agree that the Bible can legitimately be interpreted in a number of ways - the argument may well be "what way is the correct way?" There are a number of contradictions in the Bible and people, rightly, question "Why?" The problem is that the answers are contrived without recourse to an absolute reference - only the understanding of man and each man is different.

Don't get too depressed, people are not selfish just because they disagree with you, they simply see things from a different angle and so have a different picture presented to them.

It is quite realistic to believe that in the last 2000 years, something somewhere has been corrupted in the message of Christ, there is clear evidence to back it up... why wouldn't people be sceptical.

The point is that they are trying to form an understand of the world around them even thought they are bombarded by disinformation and lies. No easy task but a worthwhile venture I would say.

You may well have found your belief and question the motives of those that in in turn would question yours. This is a natural order and would be a function of an omnipotent God.

Can you consider that such questions serve a purpose?

reply to post by nj2day


The Bible talks about God as being EVERYTHING. ALL.

Islam talks about God (ALLah) being EVERYTHING. ALL.

Have you read about The All??

Mix all the religions together, and keep the basic idea of God the same, and you will understand my beliefs. The only way to ever image "God", is to imagine it/he/her as being ALL of everything.

Religion is only a second government..
did your god write your book of faith? no.
A person, or many people wrote it together.
It is to scare you into being a good person because you don't know what happens when you pass away.

reply to post by nj2day


I've not thought about it much like that before. Though I see a sort of unresolvable mutual exclusivity between Christianity and pan/deism.

Christianity requires the assumption that God has a plan in concordance with his lucid involvement in the Bible and him sending Jesus etc. But that all conflicts with those who believe in an unconscious naturalistic God who would be incapable of such things.

Hmm. Food for thought.

[edit on 22/2/2009 by Good Wolf]