It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Proving God to be fake... In under ten seconds...

page: 22
13
<< 19  20  21    23  24  25 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Feb, 22 2009 @ 06:21 AM
link   

Originally posted by Wertdagf
reply to post by Gigatronix
 


If you were able to see through the perspective of all life then your understanding of "good" and "evil" would remain constant.
All life? Are you saying you can see throught perspective of beings existing on the other side of the galaxy? Amoebas? Plants? Species of life now extinct or yet to exist?

My understanding is constant, in that good and evil are relative to the people using the terms.

It's fine if you disagree with me, but please refrain from assuming that if I saw things your way I would stop being wrong and start being right. Your interpretation is just as good as mine. I don't mean to present my opinion as anything resembling fact.If I have, my apologies, it's late hehe.




posted on Feb, 22 2009 @ 06:22 AM
link   
reply to post by Gregor100
 


nice!
.....

what this all tells me, is that if their is a god then maths is god, as it can proove or disprove anything, and is omnipresent!



posted on Feb, 22 2009 @ 06:27 AM
link   
reply to post by Gigatronix
 


I know what animals want.... i know what bacteria like.

I see and understand what life needs to grow and evolve, also that which hinders growth and understanding. That is the ultimate perspective of good and evil. It is the inevitible result of experiance.



posted on Feb, 22 2009 @ 06:30 AM
link   
reply to post by Wertdagf
 


So your effectively saying good is generally equal that which is beneficial and evil; detrimental to individuals or groups.

Sounds good to me.



posted on Feb, 22 2009 @ 06:33 AM
link   
reply to post by Good Wolf
 


Of course it is all dependant upon the individual. Those who refuse to listen will suffer, but for a good logical reason. You just need a teacher with his heart in the right place.



posted on Feb, 22 2009 @ 06:37 AM
link   
Too bad "good" and evil is often found in differing portions within the same act *you know, every action as it's set of pros and cons* and never as well defined as those who pretend otherwise.
We do live in a grey world after all.

[edit on 22-2-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]



posted on Feb, 22 2009 @ 06:39 AM
link   
reply to post by Wertdagf
 


Those who refuse to listen will suffer, but for a good logical reason.

Refuse to listen to what exactly? I'm not sure as to what you're getting at.

As a side note, it's the simple logistics of morals that make them sit so well in evolutionary biology. The religious just can't wrap their brains around that.


reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
 


We do live in a grey world after all.


Well said.


[edit on 22/2/2009 by Good Wolf]



posted on Feb, 22 2009 @ 06:44 AM
link   
reply to post by Good Wolf
 


Everyone deserves a chance from a teacher. Everyone deserves to be told the truth and saved from so much anguish. Atleast thats how i would run the universe.....



posted on Feb, 22 2009 @ 06:44 AM
link   

Originally posted by Wertdagf
reply to post by Gigatronix
 


I know what animals want.... i know what bacteria like.

I see and understand what life needs to grow and evolve, also that which hinders growth and understanding. That is the ultimate perspective of good and evil. It is the inevitible result of experiance.
Ahh but can animals and bacteria be evil?

If good and evil were universal forces then wouldn't plants and bacteria be subject to it? I guess only humans have to deal with it. I'm not saying our current definitions of good and evil aren't satisfactory(well I do have a few suggestions), I'm just saying that those definitions are relative and the holy gospel or whatever is not the end all be all standard of whats good and whats evil.

Who you are, where you are, and when you are has more impact on whats good and what's evil than what a bunch of men wrote 2000 years ago. Besides the obvious truths of course ie murder.



posted on Feb, 22 2009 @ 06:45 AM
link   

Originally posted by Gigatronix
Good and evil are not cosmic mandates, handed down by God. They are human constructs.


You see this is the biggest problem with ALL people in the entire world.

They fail to understand that every action you do, effects everything, and everyone around you, and it always has the ability to come back at you.. "what goes around comes around".

Scientifically, it is proven that we ALL are a small part of a WHOLE. Our very existence is a small part of ONE object, the Universe. "God" is a name for this ONE object, and we are a part of it.

When you say "Good and evil are not cosmic mandates, handed down by God." I can't help but see absolute ignorance! If you acknowledge that WE and the Universe are ONE, that would mean anything and everything you do that does not benefit the ONE WHOLE, is EVIL. Everything that you do that does benefit the ONE WHOLE, is GOOD. That is the "cosmic mandate from God" that you say doesn't exist.

When people don't acknowledge God, and Oneness, then all that does is create SELFISHNESS. That is when "evil" is created, and people start doing things for themselves, and don't help others, and create problems, and MURDER, and STEAL, and LIE.....



Originally posted by Gigatronix
You have cast figurative stones against me, yet are not without sin. I suggest more study is in order for you.


Sure let me study your flawed logic that "good and evil doesn't exist, but is invented".


If you don't know what good and evil is, then you don't know what God is, and you have no place to debate about it.

If you know what God is, then you know that you, and everything that exists, is a part of God. Then logic should tell you that EVERYTHING that doesn't benefit the existence of God, you, and everyone, and everything, is evil.

EVIL = ANYTHING THAT DOESN'T BENEFIT THE ENITRE UNIVERSE

GOOD = ANYTHING THAT DOES BENEFIT THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE

www.merriam-webster.com...

Everyone who thinks "there is no standard for good and evil", you are so completely wrong. It's called "common good", and it is a force that benefits ALL. And "common bad", the force that doesn't benefit anyone.

If you don't know that, you are a waste of space.... A cancer on God's body, that he will surely want to remove.



posted on Feb, 22 2009 @ 06:49 AM
link   
reply to post by Gigatronix
 


If their actions are counterproductive to a growth in the understanding then they would be evil. The evolution of intelligence is the goal of all life.. because it brings the possiblity of infinte survival.



posted on Feb, 22 2009 @ 06:51 AM
link   
reply to post by ALLis0NE
 


EVIL = ANYTHING THAT DOESN'T BENEFIT THE ENITRE UNIVERSE

GOOD = ANYTHING THAT DOES BENEFIT THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE


...OR the universe is entirely amoral and therefore anything we do has affects outside of this planet so small and meaningless that they're negligible. Therefore Good and Bad is only relative to us and in the bigger scheme, irrelevant.

[edit on 22/2/2009 by Good Wolf]



posted on Feb, 22 2009 @ 07:00 AM
link   

Originally posted by Good Wolf
reply to post by ALLis0NE
 


EVIL = ANYTHING THAT DOESN'T BENEFIT THE ENITRE UNIVERSE

GOOD = ANYTHING THAT DOES BENEFIT THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE


...OR the universe is entirely amoral and therefore anything we do has affects outside of this planet so small and meaningless that they're negligible. Therefore Good and Bad is only relative to us and in the bigger scheme, irrelevant.

[edit on 22/2/2009 by Good Wolf]


Seriously, WHAT PART OF "ONE" DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?

If WE / US / THE UNIVERSE / GOD are ONE OBJECT, then how in the world could anything we do be irrelevant?



posted on Feb, 22 2009 @ 07:05 AM
link   
reply to post by ALLis0NE
 


While I agree in part with your rant that we are all part of the universe I do have this to point out. *perhaps we are seperate as a fetus in a womb, interdependent at the moment undeniably but not the same*
Sometimes what's good for the collective and what's good for the individual is not the same.

[edit on 22-2-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]



posted on Feb, 22 2009 @ 07:08 AM
link   
reply to post by ALLis0NE
 


If WE / US / THE UNIVERSE / GOD are ONE OBJECT, then how in the world could anything we do be irrelevant?


Perhaps irrelevant is the wrong word for this context. Inconsequential is better. Inconsequential in the same way that the water that remains on our bodies when we get out of the sea after swimming is inconsequential to the sea as a whole.

If you look at the whole of reality, which you call ONE, we matter for naught.



posted on Feb, 22 2009 @ 07:09 AM
link   

Originally posted by ALLis0NE

Originally posted by Gigatronix
Good and evil are not cosmic mandates, handed down by God. They are human constructs.


You see this is the biggest problem with ALL people in the entire world.

They fail to understand that every action you do, effects everything, and everyone around you, and it always has the ability to come back at you.. "what goes around comes around".

Scientifically, it is proven that we ALL are a small part of a WHOLE. Our very existence is a small part of ONE object, the Universe. "God" is a name for this ONE object, and we are a part of it.

When you say "Good and evil are not cosmic mandates, handed down by God." I can't help but see absolute ignorance! If you acknowledge that WE and the Universe are ONE, that would mean anything and everything you do that does not benefit the ONE WHOLE, is EVIL. Everything that you do that does benefit the ONE WHOLE, is GOOD. That is the "cosmic mandate from God" that you say doesn't exist.

When people don't acknowledge God, and Oneness, then all that does is create SELFISHNESS. That is when "evil" is created, and people start doing things for themselves, and don't help others, and create problems, and MURDER, and STEAL, and LIE.....



Originally posted by Gigatronix
You have cast figurative stones against me, yet are not without sin. I suggest more study is in order for you.


Sure let me study your flawed logic that "good and evil doesn't exist, but is invented".


If you don't know what good and evil is, then you don't know what God is, and you have no place to debate about it.

If you know what God is, then you know that you, and everything that exists, is a part of God. Then logic should tell you that EVERYTHING that doesn't benefit the existence of God, you, and everyone, and everything, is evil.

EVIL = ANYTHING THAT DOESN'T BENEFIT THE ENITRE UNIVERSE

GOOD = ANYTHING THAT DOES BENEFIT THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE

www.merriam-webster.com...

Everyone who thinks "there is no standard for good and evil", you are so completely wrong. It's called "common good", and it is a force that benefits ALL. And "common bad", the force that doesn't benefit anyone.

If you don't know that, you are a waste of space.... A cancer on God's body, that he will surely want to remove.
Compounding sins today are we?

Obviously you are unable to wrap your brain around the concept that I can have different opinions than you and still be a good person. You are unable to speak to me in a civilized respectful manner, quite unbecoming for someone who claims to be so enlightened. You have made baseless assumptions, attempted to insult me, and in general have been rude and a disgrace to your faith. Stop trying to beat me over the head with your Bible and open it up and find the passage that says:

"Judge not, lest ye be judged"



posted on Feb, 22 2009 @ 07:10 AM
link   

Originally posted by Good Wolf
If you look at the whole of reality, which you call ONE, we matter for naught.


We are the world to the bacteria and etc we play host to.



posted on Feb, 22 2009 @ 07:19 AM
link   
A salient point with regard to absolute good and evil:

"God did become as evidence and create for purpose but man lives without wit of that divine way and yet is given free will to ponder the extreme forces that create and destroy and yet may both be praised as good and condemned as evil as your own priests would have it. 5. — Does not the light of Sol prompt the crop to grow yet burns and withers if unabated? Does not the rain bring succulence to the same crop and yet may feed the rivers to flood and kill? God has no mystery for those in harmony with the World that has become for in that world is the entirety of God as we may experience as man and woman. 6. — Let no man judge the work of the divine for it is in being that such work may be apparent and for this all praise must be given. 7. — All things may come to those that believe and see the way of God."

I think that the statements of amorality are probably correct. To classify once action as "good" or "evil" is to assume that the context of this action is always the same. To shoot and kill somebody in defence of your own life may be termed "good" but, what if it a burglar that shoots and kills when faced with a householder with a gun. There is no absolute good or evil.



posted on Feb, 22 2009 @ 07:33 AM
link   
This may be my last post on this topic, because it is obvious that people still don't understand the most important basic principle that God was based on.

The traditional "GOD" that is described in the scripture, is another way of saying "The Universe/Everything". I don't understand how anyone could not understand that....

When someone asks "If God is all powerful, and all knowing, can he make a rock that is so heavy that God himself can't lift it?"...

They are ignoring the basic logic of God The Universe, and asking a question that is irrelevant, and it isn't a real question at all.

If God(the universe) created a rock, that rock would be a small part of him(the universe), and inside of him(the universe). Nothing exists outside of God (the universe), so the rock will always be smaller than God (the universe).

You are basically asking if God can make himself heavy, and lift himself.


Also, you are forgetting, "heavy" doesn't exist to God, because he is all powerful, and God isn't effected by "gravity".

So your answer is NO, God can not make a rock that is "to heavy" for him, because to God there really is no such thing as "too heavy", God is all powerful.



posted on Feb, 22 2009 @ 07:37 AM
link   

Originally posted by SugarCube
There is no absolute good or evil.
Your whole post was good, quoted the important part. Just because I dont believe God handed down the list of do's and don'ts doesnt mean I dont accept the widely accepted definitions, and do my best adhere to them. I am not degenerate heathen, nor am I a saint, I would like to say I'm better than average, and most people I know would agree. Even though I am an Atheist, I am known to defend religion and it's followers from the more militant types. I'm sure AllisOne's heart is in the right place, but it seems she sticks a little too close to absolutes. The world doesn't operate in absolutes and neither do I. I think recognizing that we all rest in the gray area is a reasonable position to take. Whether or not there is a divine decree, a societal agreement, or an internal understanding, I think we all can agree on what the general definitions of good and evil are, and that we should all be doing our best to be the good guys and fight the bad guys.



new topics

top topics



 
13
<< 19  20  21    23  24  25 >>

log in

join