Continental Crash 3407 - A Conspiracy? - 9/11 Widow - met w/ Obama Dead onboard

On Fixed (Fox) news this afternoon,their report noted:

"The flight crew reported seeing ice forming on the wings and windshield right before the plane nose dived into the ground."

Can a pilot see ice form on the wings?
How did Fox get this report?

It wasn't just Beverly Eckart who was an opponent of US Policy on that plane.

www.latimes.com...

Reporting from Silver Spring, Md. — If tragedy brings people together, the still-unexplained crash of a Continental Airlines commuter jet Thursday night forever links Beverly Eckert and Alison Des Forges, two extraordinary women who led separate crusades, against seemingly impossible odds.


Eckert was a Sept. 11 widow who turned her grief into powerful advocacy. She helped force a reluctant Bush White House to create the 9/11 commission to investigate the attacks, and then helped push Congress to pass sweeping reforms of America’s secret intelligence agencies.

"She really redefined for America how to be an effective activist and a committed citizen," said Tim Roemer, a member of the 9/11 commission and liaison to the victims’ families. "That’s an extraordinary achievement."


Des Forges led a tireless, often dangerous campaign to bring to justice the perpetrators of the 1994 Rwandan genocide and other massacres. She appeared as an expert witness in scores of war crimes trials and other judicial proceedings around the world.

...

Like Eckert, Des Forges often defied conventional wisdom as well as government leaders, and provoked ire as well as praise.


Rwanda banned her from returning last year after she led a public campaign to hold senior government officials accountable for killings that followed the genocide. That put her at odds with U.S. policy as well as Rwanda’s ruling elite.



"She often was cited as if she was the opposition party in Rwanda," said Philip Gourevitch, a New Yorker writer and author of a book on Rwanda. He called her "very skillful at using the press and international courts as essentially a bully pulpit for her agenda."



In all, Des Forges appeared as expert witness in 11 trials for genocide at the International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda, as well as at trials in Belgium, Switzerland, the Netherlands and Canada.

So, we in fact have two major political activists on board the same plane that went down, which just happens to be the first deadly crash on American soil in the past 2 1/2 years.

Also, we should remind ourselves here that all we are doing is speculating over this very unique tragedy, and that officials who have investigated the incident directly were noted as stopping short of putting the blame on ice buildup and have ruled nothing out of the investigation.

As I said in my previous post in this thread, this just seems too unique for me to believe this was a total accident, especially during these heightened times of political strife and tension. We will await further information and evidence to dissect, however.

reply to post by tuppence2


"Some 9/11 theorists call themselves patriots and yet don’t believe one word that comes out of their own government or military. Double-think."

The above quotation is ridiculous. Your appeal to authority is noted, but it is worthless. In fact, it is quite possible to be patriotic and against the actions of your government. I don't care to hear the Political Ramblings of a physicist.
Kinda' like me being a land surveyor explaining the intricacies of molecular biology to a First Grader.
Our Union of States was FOUNDED by people who didn't agree with their Government, but I'll tell you this, they were Patriots of the Highest Order. They were Patriots of individual liberty.
It is also silly to assume that the Military has the best interest of the Government at heart. Their main priority is making sure they have sufficient funding to keep getting better weapons, making them more effective. And they will stop at almost no means to make sure that happens.
*Reference - Dwight Eisenhower, both military man and president. A person who is ACTUALLY QUALIFIED to speak on these matters.

reply to post by jfj123


And again..she would be in the news if she died in any other circumstances and lots more questions being asked. You can guarantee her friends would not let it rest.

Final contact with airport was at approximately 10:16 pm. The plane collided with the ground at approximately 10:20 pm. Why loss of contact in those final four minutes? Can an icing problem disable the communications systems aboard a plane? If so, how? Plane loses contact for four minutes and experts say they only had 30-40 seconds to respond (which is the "excuse" given for no response from crew).

9/11 widow was on of about 100 families who refused to take Government payoff (from taxpayer funds, of course) in exchange for not pursuing legal action for 9/11. Was she the most vociferous and prominent of those 100 or so who refused the hush money? How come no reports on what she specifically discussed with Obama?

No conspiracy here, just inconsistencies, as always.

reply to post by Tgautier13



I would love to see how a human rights advisor with expertise in Rwanda, Burundi, and the Democratic Republic of Congo ties in with a 9/11 widow?


Really clutching at straws now...

reply to post by Tgautier13


Plus Susan Reinhardt was supposed to be on that flight...a major employee of verizon.

reply to post by Chadwickus


Do you mean to ask what the link is between people who are directly involved with some of the most catastrophic abuses of Human Rights and dignity in recent times?
Answer seems simple enough. Although I don't know where the question is coming from, I can see the link.

reply to post by Chadwickus


Please go and re-read the article I presented. I said two major US political activists. How they tie together was the fact they were on the same flight. The answer to your question really is there for you to see yourself, plain as day.

Edit: Fixed 'Reply To' code.

[edit on 14-2-2009 by Tgautier13]

Originally posted by Tgautier13
reply to post by Chadwickus

 

Please go and re-read the article I presented. I said two major US political activists. How they tie together was the fact they were on the same flight. The answer to your question really is there for you to see yourself, plain as day.

Edit: Fixed 'Reply To' code.

[edit on 14-2-2009 by Tgautier13]

It sounds like you believe that both these women were targets
Is this what you believe or have I misread what you're saying?

[edit on 14-2-2009 by Chadwickus]

Originally posted by sueloujo
reply to post by jfj123

 

And again..she would be in the news if she died in any other circumstances and lots more questions being asked. You can guarantee her friends would not let it rest.

how many people died today? Were they in the news?
Like I said, a single death would be easier to hide then an entire plane full of people.

Still doesn't make sense.

Originally posted by mmiichael
Based on 7 years of intense research by people all over the world, most of whom have no agenda either way in trying to get to the bottom of things,and weighing it all, I’d say we know, not just think, that 9/11 was planned and executed by the hostile Middle Eastern interests with a history of attacking the US and other Western powers.

Well, first of all, there are many respected individuals who would strongly disagree. Is this conclusion based on your personal intense research or what the government and corporate media want you to believe? Who are these "people all over the world" that you're placing your trust in? Are you really willing to accept what may seem like an obvious conclusion without doing any personal investigation into an event that "changed everything?"

There are many questions about how much knowledge some members and agencies in the US government had in advance. This needs to be determined.

Absolutely, but after seven years, who do you think will determine this? It took NIST that long just to explain WTC 7! Has anyone determined who assassinated JFK nearly 50 years ago?

Most of the government key players are elected officials, and over the years policies and circumstances are constantly shifting. What any administration did in the past doesn't necessarily reflect on all policies and procedures for eternity.

What if there are powerful global corporations and individuals who are more powerful than any politicians or administration, precisely because they aren't elected?

Reasonable people try to assess available information and theories regarding important events, not what is isolated and presented to them by those pushing a single viewpoint.

What makes you think that I or others could be so easily manipulated by anyone "pushing a single viewpoint?" Do you think I just stumbled across 'Loose Change' one day and suddenly decided 9/11 was an inside job? Nothing could be further from the truth. I spent six solid months reading EVERYTHING I could find, both pro and con. Books, websites, personal testimony -- everything except the mainstream media, which strangely enough had nothing.

We have an overwhelming mass of data, confessions, documents, witnesses, that tell us foreign elements attacked the US September 11, 2001. To deny it gives them implicit support and encouragement. This is wrong.

Again, who's this "we" you're referring to? And what confession would that be? Osama bin Laden? What if I told you he flatly denied it?

Bin Laden says he wasn't behind attacks

September 17, 2001 Posted: 11:21 AM EDT (1521 GMT)

DOHA, Qatar (CNN) -- Islamic militant leader Osama bin Laden, the man the United States considers the prime suspect in last week's terrorist attacks on New York and Washington, denied any role Sunday in the actions believed to have killed thousands.

In a statement issued to the Arabic satellite channel Al Jazeera, based in Qatar, bin Laden said, "The U.S. government has consistently blamed me for being behind every occasion its enemies attack it.

"I would like to assure the world that I did not plan the recent attacks, which seems to have been planned by people for personal reasons," bin Laden's statement said.

What if I told you the FBI says there's not even enough evidence against OBL to send to a Grand Jury?

On June 5, 2006, the Muckraker Report contacted the FBI Headquarters, (202) 324-3000, to learn why Bin Laden’s Most Wanted poster did not indicate that Usama was also wanted in connection with 9/11. The Muckraker Report spoke with Rex Tomb, Chief of Investigative Publicity for the FBI. When asked why there is no mention of 9/11 on Bin Laden’s Most Wanted web page, Tomb said, “The reason why 9/11 is not mentioned on Usama Bin Laden’s Most Wanted page is because the FBI has no hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11.”

Surprised by the ease in which this FBI spokesman made such an astonishing statement, I asked, “How this was possible?” Tomb continued, “Bin Laden has not been formally charged in connection to 9/11.” I asked, “How does that work?” Tomb continued, “The FBI gathers evidence. Once evidence is gathered, it is turned over to the Department of Justice. The Department of Justice than decides whether it has enough evidence to present to a federal grand jury. In the case of the 1998 United States Embassies being bombed, Bin Laden has been formally indicted and charged by a grand jury. He has not been formally indicted and charged in connection with 9/11 because the FBI has no hard evidence connected Bin Laden to 9/11.”

If you knew both these facts, then you're reasonably well-informed.

If not, perhaps you should do some personal investigation instead of relying on what you think is a "massive amount of data" that proves 19 Arabs with boxcutters somehow went 4 for 4 against a government with 16 intelligence agencies, a massive global information gathering system that sucks up every electronic communication on the planet and who spends more on "defense" than the rest of the world combined.

Originally posted by Komodo
SECOND: if you have seen, I said in a few posts up about WIKI jumping all over this even before the report comes out~! In which I thought was a WAY to early to even post up and not even giving any respect to the victims, just pump up the details as soon as possible 'cuz the quicker we get the info out, the more $$$ we can make~! WIKI just fell in my respect book like the DOW did in the last 4 weeks..

I don't know if you saw my reply to your post or not but it wasn't too early to post an article on Wikipedia about a story this big. Yes the black box stuff and the rest of the investigation won't be completed for weeks but there's still a lot of helpful information about the incident, and it's all sourced.

As for money, Wikipedia is funded by donations, the editors and moderators are all volunteers.

reply to post by Chadwickus


Is it so hard to believe that one of the most prominent voices in opposition to the military commissions at Guantanamo Bay, and the push to President Obama for a NEW 9/11 commission and investigation into the attacks could be the target of certain people not wanting information like this gaining even more public ground, during a time when politicians are being thrown under the bus for past decisions they have made? Not to mention another activist, who pushed for senior American officials to be held accountable for the killings that followed the Rwandan genocide?

Stranger things have been reported at this website.

reply to post by Tgautier13


Ahh I see you do believe both were targeted.

How lucky that both women were on the plane at the same time huh.

I do actually find what you're insinuating hard to believe.

I refer you to an earlier post I made here:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

She wasn't prominent, merely a member of the 9/11 Family Steering Committee.

Apart from what I've posted there she also pushed for several memorials to be built in honour of those who died in 9/11, her husband included.

Quite the threat to national security there.

The meeting she had with Obama as I pointed out earlier was with a group of other 9/11 widows.

It wasn't a one on one like most seem to believe.

It is also pointed out, in an interview she had in 2004 that she believes terrorists attacked the buildings, not the government!

She's not a TRUTHER

I also asked why the Jersey Girls weren't attacked?

Why wasn't Kristen Breitweiser killed?
She sounds A LOT more vocal than Beverly Eckart.

Kristen Breitweiser is a lawyer and one of the Jersey Girls, four women from New Jersey who were widowed when their husbands were killed in the September 11, 2001 attacks and subsequently researched the policy and intelligence failures that led up to the attacks. She was a member of the Family Steering Committee, which was instrumental in bringing the 9/11 Commission into existence. She has testified before Congress and has been spoken of as a potential candidate for the United States Senate. Her account is well stated in her book, Wake-Up Call: The Political Education of a 9/11 Widow. C 2006, Breitweiser, Kristen. Her husband, Ronald Michael Breitweiser, was killed at age 39 in the attacks. He was a senior vice
president at Fiduciary Trust International at 2 World Trade Center [1]

Although Breitweister stated that she was a Republican who voted for George W. Bush in 2000, she became an Independent due to her anger over Bush's response to 9/11, and vigorously supported John Kerry in 2004. She continues to be an outspoken critic of the Bush Administration, claiming Bush has not made the United States safer since the attacks, as well as criticizing the war in Iraq. See Wake-Up Call: The Political Education of a 9/11 Widow. C 2006, Breitweiser, Kristen. Since May 2005 she's been a contributing blogger at The Huffington Post.

en.wikipedia.org...


I haven't really looked too much into Alison Des Forges yet.

I doubt we'll find a reason for her being killed.

The Perfect Conspiracy Indeed

Extra cover for the" Financial Stimulus debacle" or whatever it's called, perhaps or more likely that is one of the covers for this event, if true.

The supposed target, a thorn in the side of the so called secret 911 perpetrators just met with the New President of the United States and information was exchanged and had just enough time to pass down the line and ruffle some feathers enough that a plan was quickly implemented. A light must of gone on in somebody's head to balance the recent Hudson crash with a real tragedy - one that still gets less media coverage than the Hudson event - perfect.

I can't come up with a more perfect political assassination - if it was.

That said, the fact is airplanes do go down from ice buildup. They don't spend millions of dollars and thousands of wasted hours at the airports deicing because of nothing.

Ice use to cause many airplane crashes, but because we are aware of it now it rarely happens.

While a few pilots have provided some good input in this thread, I don't think I heard anyone mention the fact of increased drag that occurs when landing gear is lowered. I don't know whether LG was deployed or not, but I think it's a good candidate for the final disruption of lift, drag, weight ratio.

We all know that lift is created by the shape of the wing - that is higher pressure is created under the wing that produces lift. When ice builds up not only is there less lift because of the shape of the wing being altered but there is greater weight and possibly greater drag on the aircraft.

Now if the ratio between lift, weight and drag was at it's minimum due to ice build up and then the pilots deployed the landing gear perhaps increased drag tipped the scale thus suddenly reducing the amount of lift required to keep the aircraft aloft thus the aircraft suddenly fell out of the sky.

A perfect conspiracy could have occurred because it's likely that ice will be found to be the cause of this accident and perhaps pilot error in regards to deicing measures or deicing device malfunction will take the ultimate blame.

[edit on 14-2-2009 by verylowfrequency]

Like people keep saying we don’t know what happened and should not start guessing. But there is not much here that is suspicious. Ice causing a tail stall would put the plane into a dive in a second and the pilots would have no time to react at that altitude or any stall warning. It has happened before to a plane almost just like this one.

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
Hmm I wonder if it's just a coincidence that 5 days after the US claims that their Humvee Mounted Anti Aircraft Laser (HMAAL) had been completed. Interesting too that a Dash 8 is close to the size of the heron-turboprop (one of larger more common UAV's flown today), A UAV this new HMAAL had been designed to shoot down, meaning that the HMAAL was more than capable of shooting this plane down from quite some distance away without being seen or heard by anyone even, if they were on the plane. IF the HMAAL had been set to target the planes engines simultaneously it could have heated the engines slowly to disable the plane and then fuel tanks could have been superheated to create the deafening explosion heard and seen by everyone. The US may have seen it as a great opportunity to battle test the HMAAL in a real environment while eliminating to targets that could rip the 911 consipiracy wide open for all to see.

Sources...

US develops Anti-Aircraft laser

www.telegraph.co.uk...

Heron TurboProp UAV

www.defencetalk.com...

DASH-8

img.photobucket.com...

Interesting take on events if the lasers superheated the engines it could explain the unusal sound of the eninges and the orange glow just before the plane went down

[edit on 14-2-2009 by askptc]

Originally posted by Chadwickus
reply to post by Tgautier13

 

Ahh I see you do believe both were targeted.

How lucky that both women were on the plane at the same time huh.

I do actually find what you're insinuating hard to believe.

I refer you to an earlier post I made here:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

She wasn't prominent, merely a member of the 9/11 Family Steering Committee.

Apart from what I've posted there she also pushed for several memorials to be built in honour of those who died in 9/11, her husband included.

Quite the threat to national security there.

The meeting she had with Obama as I pointed out earlier was with a group of other 9/11 widows.

It wasn't a one on one like most seem to believe.

It is also pointed out, in an interview she had in 2004 that she believes terrorists attacked the buildings, not the government!

She's not a TRUTHER

I also asked why the Jersey Girls weren't attacked?

Why wasn't Kristen Breitweiser killed?
She sounds A LOT more vocal than Beverly Eckart.

Kristen Breitweiser is a lawyer and one of the Jersey Girls, four women from New Jersey who were widowed when their husbands were killed in the September 11, 2001 attacks and subsequently researched the policy and intelligence failures that led up to the attacks. She was a member of the Family Steering Committee, which was instrumental in bringing the 9/11 Commission into existence. She has testified before Congress and has been spoken of as a potential candidate for the United States Senate. Her account is well stated in her book, Wake-Up Call: The Political Education of a 9/11 Widow. C 2006, Breitweiser, Kristen. Her husband, Ronald Michael Breitweiser, was killed at age 39 in the attacks. He was a senior vice
president at Fiduciary Trust International at 2 World Trade Center [1]

Although Breitweister stated that she was a Republican who voted for George W. Bush in 2000, she became an Independent due to her anger over Bush's response to 9/11, and vigorously supported John Kerry in 2004. She continues to be an outspoken critic of the Bush Administration, claiming Bush has not made the United States safer since the attacks, as well as criticizing the war in Iraq. See Wake-Up Call: The Political Education of a 9/11 Widow. C 2006, Breitweiser, Kristen. Since May 2005 she's been a contributing blogger at The Huffington Post.

en.wikipedia.org...


I haven't really looked too much into Alison Des Forges yet.

I doubt we'll find a reason for her being killed.

She was also about to take them to court ...to find out all the answers to many peoples questions. I think that is quite a threat to TPTB dont you?

www.commondreams.org...

Not really just a widow who wanted a memorial stone built now is it?

What a funny coincidence. She don't want no money, but she wanted to know the whole truth, why the authorities failed to save america from this horrifying terror attac.

[edit on 14-2-2009 by qwertz]