Islam: An intolerant, inconsistent fallacy

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posted on Jun, 11 2004 @ 04:53 PM
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That creates far more of a problem for people who believe the Quran. I KNOW and most Christians KNOW that the Bible is not perfect and has been mistranslated and was written by men. People who believe in Islam have to believe that the Quran is perfect and unaltered because God is the direct author and their is no other proof. GOD SHOULD HAVE KNOWN THAT THE EARTH IN NOT FLAT. I have just twisted you into admitting that the Quran is a FRAUD.




posted on Jun, 11 2004 @ 05:00 PM
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BTW I am not judging Muslims nor do I think they are going to hell. I feel sorry for them and what to help deprogram them. They are missing alot of life submitting to a God who in reality doesn't want submission, only wants you to love one another and not kill to spread your religon.



posted on Jun, 11 2004 @ 05:28 PM
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Actually, it once again depends on what school of Islam you observe. First of all, the Quran is the same thing as the Bible - an imperfect book emanated from a perfect God. There is a good amount of interpretation by the Caliphs descended from Mohammed, I would think. Just as the New Testament was decided upon by the Council of Nicea.

And once again I would say, we need to exercise caution. A good number of Muslims follow a very radical interpretation of Islam, true. It's not the case for all, though. And I can tell you that in the countries I visited in Africa (Senegal, Mali, Benin) Islam is laced with series of traditions and beliefs that don't necessarily emanate from the Quran. And I trust that there are a good number of Muslims who are intelligent enough to know that the Quran is the beginning of faith only, not the alpha and omega of it. And there is actually a debate going on in some Muslim countries on the pertinence of applying the charia in a modern society (again, Morocco comes to mind).

What I'm trying to say is, a good number of Muslims are very intelligent people who know how to make the difference between the divinity of God and the all-too-human word of God in the Quran. But those Muslims aren't the ones who make the news, are they?

The same way that moderate Christians aren't the ones who make the news. It's much easier to show Christians attacking abortion clinics or crashing pro-gay marriage demonstrations.

How fine the line we must walk when we try to characterize religions or cultures!



posted on Jun, 11 2004 @ 07:10 PM
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No offense but the same stuff you mention to try and tear down Islam and those who follow it I could apply to some whites in America from the creation of this country up until the Civil Rights movement of the 60's who treated blacks like crap as well. What's the significance in this you ask? Well those in the KKK, Aryan nation and other hate groupsrs where supposed to be good, God fearing men who loved their Bibles and were just good Christians. So technically couldn't I blame Christianity for their doings like a lot of Americans try to do with blaming Islam for the terrorism problem when they need to realize that every religion will have its group of morons who will take the word and twist it to fit their views. Let me make my points below though I can't make examples on every point the original poster mentioned. For the record I'm not Muslim nor of the Islamic faith and I'm a natural born American citizen to parents, whose parents, parents etc. were born here as well but I'm tired of the Islam bashing I'm seeing from certain groups in America.
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2. How can it be said that Mohammed was a loving and compassionate man yet he killed, robbed and sadistically tortured people. ie: a man was murdered for making fun of Mohammed in poetry.
Also, Mohammed tortured and punished some by chopping of their arms and legs, burning out their eyeballs and killing them slowly in the harsh elements of the desert.


Blacks in this country where enslaved, hanged, lynched, women raped at the hands of slave masters who where so called devout followers of God who on Sunday went to church to praise him and yet on Monday put on hoods and burned out entire villages b/c a black man may have looked at a white women. Now if these people followed a man who loved everyone (even those who betrayed him) then how could they have done the actions that they did!??

3. Why do Muslim claim that Mohammed was a liberator of women when it is taught that women are:
a) Inferior to men
b) must obey their husbands - or be dealt with harshly
d) Husbands can beat them because Allah promotes this in the Koran.
e) Have no essential rights like child-custody and the right to divorce.
f) Court testimony is worth only half of the testimony of a man.
g) She has no autonomy; first her father controls her then her husband.
h) Allah wants them to stay at home and not to come out.
i) They are forbidden to join ceremonies such as funerals.
j) The Koran speaks only towards man as if woman arent full human beings.


Again how could followers of Christianity treat people like whites did blacks when again Jesus himself loved everyone and even asked his father to forgive those who had just tortured him so and put him on the cross to waste away!? To the eyes of a majority of the whites in the time period (and in the eyes of a some today though many won't come out and admit it) we're inferior, should obey those superior (whites), can be beaten and treated like dirt, have no rights, only 3/5 of a person, basically we were treated as if we weren't/aren't fully human beings.

5.How can it be said that Islam is a religion of peace and love when the Koran teaches that non-believers are forbidden to be friends of Muslims and in fact the Koran promotes killing them and otherwise abusing them?

Well, Christianity is supposedly a religion of peace and love yet some of its followers certainly didn't act in Christian ways in this country!? There were those again who tried to say the Bible okayed the treatment of blacks as slaves. Yes the Bible didn't straight out say "Treat Africans like dogs etc." however, the main problem many seem to have with Islam is the way some act when those of the faith tout the religion as one of peace. Again I say then that Christianity is touted as a religion of peace yet throughout history there have been those of that faith who have acted evil as well.

I know this post is going to set off some flames here but I just couldn't hold it in anymore. I've been a lurker on this site for a few months now and finally decided I had to post when I saw yet another thread attempting to bash Islam and label all those who follow it as the same. Americans don't like it when we're all labeled in one group so we shouldn't do it to others. Remember we're supposed a good Christian nation so we're supposed to be above this type of behavior. WWJD as they say...



posted on Jun, 11 2004 @ 07:14 PM
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I AM NOT DEFENDING CHRISTIANITY EITHER!!!

I am stating that the most violent religon this earth as ever witnessed is Islam. Christianty thank God finally got the crusades out of their system but the jihad continues and is gaining momentum.



posted on Jun, 11 2004 @ 10:24 PM
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Islam is a much younger religion than Christianity, and I disagree that Christians have gotten violence out of their systems at all.

How many women's clinics have been bombed by anti-abortion fundamentalists?

How many gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered people have been killed by so called "Christians?"

How many people did Hitler kill in the name of Christ?

Now the reason I said so called there is because I do not considder the violent fundamentalist Christians to be Christian at all, same as I do not considder the violent extremists in Islam to follow Islam. They are both just hate filled zelots who have lost their religion.

Do not generalize and entire faith based upon the actions of a few.

Judge the teachings, doctorine and dogma not those who follow it, and above all not those who profane their religion.



posted on Jun, 12 2004 @ 09:06 AM
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Well, well, well. We are getting to the root of the problem here. The thing the Quran is it is supposed to be the DIRECT WORD OF GOD WITH NO ERROR. That is the only justification it is true at all. If you don't beleive all of it you shouldn't believe ANY of it. The fact is I have looked at the creators of the two seperate religons and Jesus taught non-violence while Muhammad was busy chopping peoples heads off. BELIEVE IT OR ELSE!!!
You want to get to the core of Islam then look no further than the creator. Muhammad wrote a book of poison and if you believe it sincerely then you must act like a radical, if you are moderated you must say to yourself, he really didn't mean that so I won't follow that certain rule that tells me if my brother has decided to follow another path in life then I should kill him. If you don't follow rules then why follow any of them? Restated, the Quran is a fraud and is so obvious to an outsider looking in, the brainwashed have a tougher time understanding that it is a BOOK OF POISON. BTW I am not giving the Old Testament a break either. Stoning someone to death for adultery????? What a joke.



posted on Jun, 12 2004 @ 01:27 PM
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wooten, you obviously know very little about Qur'an. You compare islam with christianity in terms that christian follow christ, muslims follow muhammad..... that is absolutely not true. Muslims do not follow Muhamad or his way of life, they do not worship him in any way, that is forbiden in Islam. Muhamad was only a messenger who recieved the word of God. WHat is worshiped in Islam is GOD, and GOD ONLY. The most narated prophets in Quran are Abraham, Moses and Jesus. Qur'an is not a testimony of Mohammad life, like the Bible is of Jesus. NO, NO, NO.
Qur'an talks about belief in general, creation of world, difference between human and God's justice ( for example, humans are allowed to carry out individual punishment for murder, rape, etc,etc, but ONLY God can punish a whole nation or city or whatever. Obviously bin Laden didnt read those verses).

You have to understand the basics of islamic belief before you judge it.

I might write more later, dont have time now.



posted on Jun, 12 2004 @ 01:38 PM
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My words are more educated than yours are and you have the nerve to say I am uneducated when your whole argument is rants, rants, and rants.

You obviously know nothing about Qur'an and the little things you do is is anti-Islamic theology.

I find it funny how you never mentioned anything about the link I posted earlier in this thread about the Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an but I will let it slide and let you continue to ignore it.

So you continue to make blatant statements about Islam because it's people like you who embrace Islam the most.



posted on Jun, 12 2004 @ 03:31 PM
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whether or not any of you are interested in the supposed bible codes, you may find this link interesting...

other religions

chew on this for awhile, as i know i have
.



posted on Jun, 12 2004 @ 03:33 PM
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Originally posted by KrazyIvan
the bible is the only holy book were the god said that he loved the world and its people

The Quran and Torah say so too. All religions have their pros and cons.



posted on Jun, 12 2004 @ 04:14 PM
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Religions are ideals, to be interpreted as the individual chooses. I know alot of people disagree with that notion, instead prefering to see their given religion as writen in stone (no pun intended).

But all religions...yes ALL...can be used to justify horrible acts, if interpreted that way.

What matters is how people choose to act within the "confines" of their religious beliefs. It isn't the religion itself (whether it was "founded" on the back of peace or war, as one person put it...regardless of how it began and what it's essence is), it's how people choose to interpret it in the here and now, in the present; in this modern day and age.

I have respect for all religious beliefs. However, if someone is cruel, violent, destructive, etc. I have no respect for them on an individual basis, regardless of what religion they are. Likewise, if someone is compassionate, loving, non-violent, tolerant, etc. then they have all my respect, even if they don't belong to a religion at all.

I've known many people who practice as members of many religions, and among them I've seen the best and worst in human nature. It isn't the religion; it's the person! If a person is violent and cruel, they will use whatever justification is available to them for their deeds. If they can't use religion as justification, then they use something else.

It isn't the religion or the ethnicity of the individual that's to blame, but the person's heart and mind. Every religion in the world has changed vastly throughout history, mostly at the behest of those who wish to use it for the justification of their deeds, be they for good or be they for evil. It's all about the individual (or group of individuals) living at the time, and their choices in life.



posted on Jun, 12 2004 @ 04:21 PM
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No conspiracy in Islam. It teaches men to protect and honor woman and non believers.

It was hijacked by a bunch of tools who twist the words into what they need to further their own cause.



posted on Jun, 12 2004 @ 04:48 PM
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Embrace Islam the most??? HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! LOL!!!!!!


You must not be reading my statements. Muhammad MADE THE QURAN UP AS HE WENT!!! Just like Joseph Smith and the Hebrews.



posted on Jun, 12 2004 @ 05:49 PM
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Originally posted by wooten123
Embrace Islam the most??? HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! LOL!!!!!!


You must not be reading my statements. Muhammad MADE THE QURAN UP AS HE WENT!!! Just like Joseph Smith and the Hebrews.


Your not reading my statements either and you are making everything up as you go along.



posted on Jun, 12 2004 @ 05:58 PM
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Maybe you should actually start reading my posts then so you can maybe understand. Islam is not a religion, it's submission towards God. To be Muslim means you have surrendered before God. Adam and Abraham did just that, hence they were Muslim. Abraham wasn't a Jew.



You never gave me an answer, Illmatic.

One who submits to God is automaticly regarded as a Muslim, even if the God and doctrine are different ?

Wooten does not seem to reply to anything posted with a mature mindset.


Deep



posted on Jun, 14 2004 @ 12:31 PM
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What is immature about my mindset? I expose the Quran for the fraud it is and that makes me immature? If you want to see the Quran and Bible picked apart for absurdities go to www.skepticsannotatedbible.com Hilarious.



posted on Jun, 14 2004 @ 12:36 PM
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Quit quarrelling, it gets you no where.

All of the major religions, shoot people, haven't you realized it yet? They are all the same thing, just different versions according to culture.

It's culture, not evil or lies, that separates these religions.



posted on Jun, 14 2004 @ 05:07 PM
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Originally posted by wooten123
That creates far more of a problem for people who believe the Quran. I KNOW and most Christians KNOW that the Bible is not perfect and has been mistranslated and was written by men. People who believe in Islam have to believe that the Quran is perfect and unaltered because God is the direct author and their is no other proof. GOD SHOULD HAVE KNOWN THAT THE EARTH IN NOT FLAT. I have just twisted you into admitting that the Quran is a FRAUD.


Why don't you respond to my christian post? Humm mabey becuase you pick and choose what to reply to.



posted on Jun, 14 2004 @ 05:28 PM
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For the third time now. I AM NOT DEFENDING CHRISTIANITY!!!!!





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