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Islam: An intolerant, inconsistent fallacy

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posted on May, 31 2004 @ 03:32 PM

Originally posted by Shiffee
ALL religion is full of crap! Ancient politics is all it is. Free your mind, think for yourself.

Ummm... so I should do exactly what you say, and free my mind and think for myself, right?

In other words, if I freely choose to be religious... BAD!

If I obey your words and choose not to be religious... GOOD!

posted on Jun, 2 2004 @ 07:22 PM
Hello Everyone,

i am sick and tired of the barbaric perverted islam, mohammed the child rapist and all of his idiot followers who destroyed the ancient arabic culture.
Many of the muslims in my land (The Netherlands) causes alot of crime, they group rape girls, refuse to learn Dutch and even the ones who are born here refuse to learn propor Dutch, they don't want to go to school and work, and then the pro islam hypocrite left people (or shall i say the real fascists) say that i am spreading hate against the islam? who is here the real fascist? the islam! who is spreading hate against the so called none believers? the islam! in every land where there are muslims there is trouble with them, just last week a couple of weak muslims in Thailand chopped of the head of of a old buddhist.................. i $@#%$@#$ islam!!!, there no better then the christians from the middle ages or the nazi's!!

BTW! i am no jew, i am no christian, i don't believe in the bible or the tora, its all the same, one big religion started in the east where i have nothing to do with!, how would people react if the Vikings would go and colonise a islamic land? its not normal! its not right! people and there religions should stay where it was created/made up/written/whatever!
I don't want your church! i don't want your koran! i don't want your god/allah/mohammed/jezus! STAY AWAY!!
christians, muslims, they have nothing to seak in Europe, they can all go away for i care, christianity destroyed the old pagan world in Europe, and i will never forgive them for that!!!!

just before all the known idiots start to say bull:
No, you can't be a racist if you are against the islam, for it is a religion not a race, muslims and left fascist (no i am not right winged, i am neither) made that up so muslims could do everything without people saying anything about it, but that bull is broken now, some stupid people really believed muslims was a race......... no its not, its a religion, just like christianity.

this topic is about the islam, not christianity or zionism or whatever, if you say: but the christians did this and this and that, then you are weak and running away from the topic because you can't argue with people about it because you don't know anything about it.
and like i said, i am anti christianity also, so there.
and no! i am anti zionism also! so there! you can't escape anymore

alright, before i go on with the links, some pages have alot of facts and information, but some are christian, or have some wrong facts, so don't believe i am with them all the way, just stick with the facts people.

Facts about the islam:

allah was a moongod before mohammed showed up and twisted the old pagan religion and destroyed the old arabic worlds with his nazi like propaganda, just like hitler did with the old german believes, he said he was the reincarnation of wotan, and that he did the thing he did because of wotan (see the connection between him and mohammed? alright then!)
read this comic about the origin of allah the moongod, the last part is about the christian god, i don't support that last part for i am not a christian, i reject christianity also,

allah was one of 360 pagan gods, the moongod, alot of islamic rituals are pagan rituals following the moon position, even the symbole of the islam is a freakin moon! go figure!
the famous satans verses are the old scrypts of the old pagan arabic world, its forbidden for a muslim too read it because then he would know the truth about allah, and mohammed didn't want that to happen, also that big tower thing in mecca? inside was where 360 figures where standing in holes, each one of a pagan god, including allah, mohammed destroyed them all............

Many elements of pagan worship that Muhammad grafted directly into Islam virtually unchanged.

now that i have proven that allah is a pagan moongod and that mohammed betrayed his fatherland by destroying its culture and religion (mohammed and his followers where called moslimien in the beginning, moslimien meaning: land betrayer, and it later changed into! muslim!!)

alight, now on with the second part, mohammed, muslims and the perverted teachings of him

Let's take a look at what Islam teaches, for example: "Therefore, when ye meet the non-Muslims in fight, smite at their necks till when you have killed and wounded many of them, then bind a bond firmly on them (take them as captives); thereafter is the time for either generosity (free them without ransom) or ransom (according to what benefits Islam): until the war lays down its burdens." [Quran 47:4].

there is so much info about the perverted islam, just like there was so much information about hitler and his nazi's before the war started, but no one wanted to lisen and called us fascists!
they just want to sit back and kill people who have open there eyes!
first there have to be a war i think before people open there stupid eyes........
first they said that we have to respect hitler and the nazi's because it is there culture............ now they are saying the same about the islam and the muslims...........

Islam is peace or disease? We have the evidence!!!

Muhammed (piss on him) the Pedophile
he raped a 9 year old when he was 53
its so weak when people are trying to talk the rape of a child good just because they don't want to admit that there so great prophet was nothing more then a weak sick stupid idiot child rapist....................
and no! child rapist wasn't normal back then! it was never normal you sick perverts idiots!
even the father of the child said to mohammed that he should wait before she is a full grown woman to have sex with her!

and what happened because of that now?
in iran there are rules that you can have sex with children!
only because mohammed did it too!
even with animals!

Ayatollah Khomeini:

A man can have sexual pleasure from a child as young as a baby. However he should not penetrate, sodomising the child is OK. If the man penetrates and damages the child then he should be responsible for her subsistence all her life. This girl, however does not count as one of his four permanent wives. The man will not be eligible to marry the girls sister.
From Khomeini's book, "Tahrirolvasyleh", fourth volume, Darol Elm, Gom,
Iran, 1990
Book Title Page/ Cover
Inside Cover of Book
Excerpt: Page [1] | Page [2]
[Mohammad (founder of Islam) The Pedophile]

A man can have sex with animals such as sheep¹s, cows, camels and so on.
However he should kill the animal after he has his orgasm. He should not
sell the meat to the people in his own village, however selling the meat to
the next door village should be fine.

From Khomeini's book, "Tahrirolvasyleh", fourth volume, Darol Elm, Gom,
Iran, 1990

*gives the finger to the islam* THERE!
its a criminal organisation!
if the stereotypical satan/devil really excisted! then mohammed was his prophet!!!!

the prophet (muhammed) married her (Aisha) when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death)."
(Hadith, Sahih Bukhari 7:62:64)

"Narrated 'Aisha: 'I used to wash the traces of Janaba (semen) from the clothes of the prophet (muhammed) and he used to go for prayers while traces of water were still on it (water spots were still visible).'"
(Hadith, Sahih Bukhari 1:4:229)

that is one sick perverted idiot............

Mohammed's Believe It or Else!,
So... what's this comic book all about?
Islam is the fastest growing religious movement in the United States. It is especially enticing to the young black children in our inner city areas, where the Nation of Islam is luring young black men and women into the 7th century pagan Arab religious cult that comprises Islam. How can concerned Christians combat the rise is Islam? Simply by telling the truth about Islam -- and we mean all the truth about Islam -- in a way that our young people can easily understand it.

In Mohammed's Believe It or Else!, author and illustrator Abdullah Aziz takes the actual teachings of Mohammed from the Qur'an and the Hadith (the "inspired" commentary on the Qur'an) and illustrates them in a comic book. Here are some examples of the startling teachings of Mohammed:

Jews were turned into monkeys for breaking the Sabbath.

Satan sleeps in the nose overnight.
playing chess is forbidden!!

A non-Muslim has seven intestines
if you pray with your eyes up they will fall out of your head...........

scientific proof in the koran?
Mohammed taught that the sun sets into a muddy pond at night!!!!!!

yum! camel urine!
Mohammed commanded his followers to drink camel urine

Mohammad married a 6-year-old and had sex with her when she was nine years old

Mohammed was a racist who referred to black people as "raisin heads!!

Satan pees into the ears of those who sleep while praying

so there you go people, the twisted sick perverted words of the pervert sandeater

where you are turned into a rat or pig, where the devil sleeps in your nose, where the sun goes down into a puddle of mud, where playing chess is forbidden, where your eyes fall out when you look up during praying, where you drink camel urine, where you have sex with a 9 year old, and where you are saying racist remarks against black people, and where satan sleeps in your ear!

now i give the word to ex-muslims and people who are in islamic lands

and this post is from a person in Iran:
What is the evil #ing Islam. They told us all about Islam # for 1400 years. My life and many Iranian like me is wasted because of the #ing Islam. The great Old Persian is gone because of the #ing Islam. We are having the Mullah Mother #er in Iran because of the #ing Islam. All nation in the world call us terrorist because of the #ing Islam. So let's get read of the #ing Islam. Irani standup and save your self and your nation and the Good Old Persian culture from the evil #ing Islam. We are originally Zartoshti not #ing Moslems. # Mohammad and the #ing Quran. 1.2 billons People (Moslems) are living in poor stupid condition, killing each other, because of the #ing Islam. 1.2 billons Moslems do not know what is written in the #ing Quran, and just blindly believe in it. But if they take there time and read the #ing Quran several time, then they know better, what the # they believe in. And if you would know what Islam is all about, and what did to us, then you would not believe in the #ing Islam. Have good Look at this Persian website.

alright then, i have given the facts, i do care what you do with them, read them, or shut your mouth of you only say bull to me because you are to lazy and stupid to THINK FOR YOURSELF!

i will give some more good links to read

islam and nazi connections

the only religion that is not from my Fatherland that i do support is Budhism, i think there is a universial knowledge inside of it, and they also say that you can enter and go in the budhist world whenever you can, i don't hear the islam and christianity say that! better yet! there is a rule in the islam that you must be put to death if you leave the islam!
budhism also says that they are not really a religion, more a tool to get wisdom and knowledge, and getting a step closer to enlightment

i am a heathen, a pagan, i do not believe in the pagan gods directly, they maybe just names for forces in nature, symbolism, before the perverted christians came here and put a wall between humanity and nature there was a link between humanity and nature, a perfect way of living, just like the budhist are still doing now (only that the evil china has taken over there homeland Tibet),
religions like the islam and christianity forces people not to grow, every land who became christian or islamic went in one step too a perverted sick and twisted land with no progress and a big downfall for mankind..

you are put into a little box with rules that you must follow so that the one who have put you in there who has long time died will release you........

[Edited on 2-6-2004 by Wintermorg]

[Edited on 2-6-2004 by Wintermorg]

[Edited on 2-6-2004 by Wintermorg]

posted on Jun, 2 2004 @ 09:20 PM
The problems of the world are not really caused by religion, it just seems that way.

Just remember that the middle eastern countries have been in a state of almost continuous warfare for thousands of years. It is part of the culture.

If you were a kid and grew up in Northern Ireland, it might seem like the Christian religion can be pretty hateful at times, as well.

The Catholics and the Protestants hate each others guts, and each believes he is doing Gods good work. What a Joke...............

So lets all try to be a bit more tolerant.

posted on Jun, 8 2004 @ 12:49 PM
Yobel, I am still waiting for your reply.

posted on Jun, 9 2004 @ 04:45 AM

Tell us the fact you face with Islam in Netherlands.
Tell us the true color about Islam and his followers. Everybody want the truth before going further on TOLERATE each other.

[edit on 9-6-2004 by CinLung]

posted on Jun, 9 2004 @ 03:25 PM
Repeated 100 times
Refuted 100 times.

Wooten, your still going at it? Unbelievable.

posted on Jun, 9 2004 @ 06:00 PM
Religions or spiritual systems are not the problem, MAN IS.

posted on Jun, 10 2004 @ 05:54 AM

I thought by getting on this forum that seemed a bit different that there would be objective people who'd debate and discuss without the every day TV news islamic reflexion (hence messed up political reality), i must say that i am a bit disappointed.

I am a muslim girl and i have been living all of my life in a muslim country and never for to any english speaking country. Yet i learned english which is my third language after arabic and french. People say that islam doesn't give their rights to women. i disagree and i myself am a proof that that is wrong. there are other sad realities of women around the world, and it is not because of islam that they have a lack of knowledge, it is either because of misconception or wrong understanding of the islamic teachings, or simply because these people are not muslims. The prophet Mohammed peace be upon him says in one of his sayings : "asking for knowledge is a must for every muslim man and woman". It CLEARLY states how women are asked to get knowledge. Now if some arab or asian muslim reality says the opposit, it doesn't make islam any responsible just because these people are muslims and make decisions or traditions.

Women before the revelation came on the prophet Mohammed peace be upon him were most of them buried alive by their fathers once begotten, as a shame. And that was really common in the tribes at that time. Women didn't have any right in inheritance whatsoever. Women were enslaved and so had no right to choose their husband or to get married and were exchanged and given as gifts all the time and treated like objects.

The prophet came with the recolutionary message at these dark times, knowing how hard it is to come with so many new things refuting all the traditions in arabian world at that time. he was fought for giving the slave the equality as all of us are humans with his master, and the only difference would be in the heart (and so not only could they be equal, but the slave might be better than his master). Islam clearly prohibited burying little girls alive. Islam gave the woman the right to inherit and own her own money and not even have to spend it on the family, hence her FREE OWN money that noone has the right to touch or decide about it but her. And so even if her husband would ask her to give him from that money she has the FULL right to say know even if it's just money sitting there, yet it is HERS. Islam gave the woman the right to choose the man she wants to marry and gaveher the right to refuse to marry somone if she doesn't WANT to (some people think it's the muslim woman's father who has the right to impose her a husband or that whomever wants to marry her has the right to even if she doesn't want to).

And i can give an example at the times of Prophet Mohammed, he (peace be upon him) was sitting with one of his companions, and one woman was walking with a man behind her crying begging her to accept and marry him. This man was this woman's husband in the times before Islam, and when Islam came with the teaching that a muslim woman must seperate from a non muslim man, she got seperated with him, but then he converted to Islam, and he wanted to get back with her. But she didn't want him anymore. So the prophet was watching what was happening and the companion who was with him said "Oh prophet! don't you see how this poor man loves her, won't you try to talk to her and convince her?" , the prophet said " ok i will go talk to her, i am surprised with the love of this man to her, and of the way she doesn't like him at all!".

And the prophet went to her and told her : "won't you get back to that man?" , she answered : "Is this an order oh messenger of Allah?" , he answered : "Oh no, this is just a question and trying to get things to work", so she answered him "Well, messenger of Allah, i have no desire to get back with that man", and so he said "As you wish".

I think it is clear enough that not only the woman has the right to choose, but at this place she even had the right to even if she was married with this man (which is closer than a man she never met before).

The woman is free to choose the man she loves and wants to get married with, as the prophet was asked once by a girl's father : "oh prophet, there are two men wanting to marry my daughter, one of them is poor and the other is rich". the prophet asked : "and which one does she love to marry?" , the father said : "the poor one". the prophet answered : " i don't see for the two people who love each other something else than marriage". So it is clear now what the woman's right are (this is just a few example, i can go on for hours relating other kind of rights like for example the slave gift woman that was given by the coptic egyptien king to the prophet, and whom he set free and married her and honored her instead of keeping her slave with no rights who has to do everything requested from her) under Islamic teachings.

About the prophet marrying more than one wife and him marrying rare young ones (most were actually lonely widows), i have translated and written a whole article about it, but it is long to paste here so here's the link if everyone wants to read it, it explains the reality of the prophet's marriages :
And i am working on translating in details the story of each marriage, and the one that is already done and posted is His story with the very slave gift woman that he was given from the Coptic King, and whose name is Maria, and here's the link for the very inetresting story which shows the way Prophet used to treat women :

I chose to answer just one point that was said which is the way Islam came with completely different ideas about women than people see today, and mix up with this chaotic world's reality which is very far from what Islam tells us.

About Qur'aan, that should be another post because there are so many things to say, i don't know whether it has already been debated here, i don't know if you guys are still here in the point where still some people refute the fact that the not one of the qur'aan's words has been changed, which is a historical fact, but it seems to me that it is still somewhat something people disagree about, then that's another story, yet that can easily be proven (unless not everyone here believes in the logic and the history, maths and the competent people's researches, i'm just suprised that it is still not known, these researches made even by non muslims!).

About the wars and the Jihaad concept, that's another post too i guess.
And finally about Islam being a religion of hate, I guess my signature gives the answer for it


posted on Jun, 10 2004 @ 07:33 AM

Oh, Muhammad did marry a 9 year old you are right. It was a custom back then but he did not consumate the marriage until she reached proper breeding age.

Im curious about that statement. Please dont be offended by me asking but is that what you truly believe? as a Muslim? That Women are breeding stock? Again i dont seek to offend anyone but i find that statement a bit disturbing. I have no view regarding the rest of the thread as it is quite frankly beyond me and i would not presume to have the relevant knowlage and expertise in the subjects being disscussed. But it would seem to me that statements like that go a long way towards fostering missunderstandings between different faiths. I know from reading your posts that you are an intelligent and strong willed person so i have a hard time believing you actually believe that.

posted on Jun, 10 2004 @ 07:49 AM

Originally posted by wooten123
Yobel, I am still waiting for your reply.

I'm still waiting for a reply too (from any believer of islam). I've clearly shown them how ridiculous there concept of hell is, yet I get no reply.

posted on Jun, 10 2004 @ 07:55 AM
Yes, that initial statement is a load of crap. The same thing could be said about Christianity or any religion in the sense that there are always a fundamentalist view which takes what their Holy Book takes for the truth, word for word truth. And these fundamentalists, not all of them, maybe fundamentalists is the wrong word, maybe extremists, is that better? These extremists see that anyone who is not of their faith and believes the way they do then they are infidels, tools of Satan or Satan himself and mus destroy it.
Sorry if this was covered but I saw the initial post and just needed to put in my two cents. Then again it was his opinion.

posted on Jun, 10 2004 @ 08:04 AM

Arguing about this, as well as arguing about any other religious statement on these forums is stupid.

I myself am a Christian, I believe that the Bible is the word of god written through his will by men.

But in these forums, do I bash other peoples beliefs? Nope. But this thread and some of the other "religion" type topics I notice that folks tend to do that.

Right now I am liviing in Qatar.. I have observed some of the flavor of Islam being practiced here. But I respect that faith's practices with a casual eye.. it does not affect my life in any way but is interesting to observe.

Faith in a religion is a personal thing.. Only through ones own choice do folks follow a particular religion.

posted on Jun, 10 2004 @ 06:19 PM
No Muslims are not given a choi.ce. If you are a "good" muslim then you must kill anyone who gives up on "Allah". That is not a personal choice, it is a survival choice. Illimatic. You are a very uneducated person and I am sorry you have been brainwashed as deeply as you have been. I will state this again. Islam is a bogus religon created by a war-mongering mad man who thought he was possesed by Satan. IT TELLS YOU THIS IN THE QURAN. When I gave those senarios about the young Buddhist boy, anyone in their right mind would understand that he would have been better off not hearing about this man and his "God".

posted on Jun, 10 2004 @ 06:27 PM
You can categorize Islam and Christianity in the same box, they both have thier fallacies and they both have thier amazing philosophical ideals in reagrds to virtue and morality man/womankind should take.

Prophet Muhhamed was no Great spiritual persona, in my eyes, but a leader, yes. The Quran contains many miracles, but through carefull evaluation, one realized that they are miracles of knowledge, and in fact, Muhhamed may have been a very very educated man, if we were to evaluate those miracles.

But Christianity/Islam are both used to indoctrinate men/women into a selective school of thought, which in any case, is the objective of most doctrines.

Like it was stated before, in my personal opinion, Islam can and will never come as close to the spiritual beauty of Buddhism, Muhhamed was not Siddarth.

Also to the member who is complaining about the bashing, this is a debate and discussion forum, you are not obligated to view it, nor are you obligated to partake. Its a simple choice.


posted on Jun, 10 2004 @ 06:44 PM
You are absolutely correct. Islam is a lower tier religon when compared to Buddhism. I love the excuse for the Koran being the "unaltered" word of God because it is written so beautifuly and cannot be matched for it genious. The Buddists scpriture and the Vedas make the Koran look like a 3rd grader wrote it. Much more complex and definately more diffucult to master. I almost fell out my chair one time when a muslim was trying to convert me and said the was the reason he knew the Quran is the "true word of God". I really fell sorry for people who don't read other great literature. Hell the Illiad and the Odyessy blow the Quran out of the water as well.

posted on Jun, 10 2004 @ 07:22 PM

1. How can the Koran be the infallable word of God when it contains nonsense like the earth is flat and the sun moves around the earth.

2. How can it be said that Mohammed was a loving and compassionate man yet he killed, robbed and sadisticly tortured people. ie: a man was murdered for making fun of Mohammed in poetry.
Also, Mohammed tortured and punished some by chopping of their arms and legs, burning out their eyeballs and killing them slowly in the harsh elements of the desert.

3. Why do Muslim claim that Mohammed was a liberator of women when it is taught that women are:
a) inferior to men
b) must obey their husbands - or be dealt with harshly
c) Mohammed said that hell was filled with women due to disobeying their husbands
d) Husbands can beat them because Allah promotes this in the koran.
e) Have no essential rights like child-custody and the right to divorce.
f) Court testomony is worth only half of the testomony of a man.
g) She has no autonomy, first her father controls her then her husband.
h) Allah wants them to stay at home and not to came out.
i) They are forbidden to join ceremonies such as funerals.
j) The Koran speaks only towards man as if woman arent full human beings.

4. How can Muslims say that Mohammed was a perfect human-being or even a good man and his example should be followed when it is known that he did a 9-year old girl when he was 53?
Don't many muslims follow this example because the best muslims should follow the Sunna?

5.How can it be said that Islam is a religion of peace and love when the koran teaches that non-believers are forbidden to be friends of muslims and in fact the koran promotes killing them and otherwise abusing them?

Christianity also postulated that the earth was flat, in fact, most people of those times would have had no education on par with modern times to tell them other wise, so why single out this fallacy ?

Women have been deemed inferior by all walks of man for centuries, not just Islam. Yes the culture predominate during that time may have looked lowly upon women, but so did our western world a hundred years ago.

The Torah never spoke too highly of women,

Numbers 31: 14-18 Moses tells his men to kill all the males, non-virginal women, elderly and children of the Midianite tribe. Of course, the virgin women are kept for raping. Ifyou read later down in the scripture God states that the Jews can not even marry a midianite woman (with exception to Moses). Hence these women who were captured were repeatedly raped and impregnated and they weren’t even allowed a marrital status in which to protect them.

Deuteronomy 20:13-15 Kill all the men and boys in the cities that God “delivers into your hands,” but keep the women for raping.

Deuteronomy 21:11-14 If you see a pretty woman among the captives then just take her home and “go in unto her.”

Deuteronomy 22:5 Women that wear men’s clothing are an “abomination unto the Lord.”

Deuteronomy 22:13-22 Women, be sure to keep the tokens of your virginity. Otherwise the men of your city may stone you to death. This does not apply to men though, of course. What is interesting to note here is the actual wording, it says : “that if a man hateth his wife he may say she did not have the tokens of her virginity”. Since there is no way a woman can truly prove she had a hymen upon marriage the word rests on the husband and she can be disposed of simply when he tires of her.

As does the Christian faith. We complain about Sharia and the stoning of women.....

(Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB)
If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.

I could go on, but see no point.


posted on Jun, 10 2004 @ 09:25 PM
Wow for a net-society who's motto is "Deny Ignorance" there really is a lot of ignorant hatred here!

I have yet to find a religion that I believe is perfect, but that gives me no right to go and blatantly bash the living tar out of a religion that is nearly the same as every other Western Religion, while not raising a word about the intolerant, inconsistant fallacies included therein!

I could not in good faith be nearly as intolerant as some have been in this forum. My first philosophy professor told me something that I believe holds quite true here:

"For every hole you can punch in one's religion, they can punch at least two in yours. This holds true for every religion on the planet, even Atheism."

Peace, not intolerance should be our goal, it has been the goal of most every Western Religion, Eastern Religion, New Age Religion and Ancient Religion on the planet, and yet it escapes us.

So you shouldn't be here bashing someone else's faith, instead worry that you yourself are true to you own. Because as St. Augustine said "We are all sinners, but redemption not vengence, is what brings us back from sin."
If you do not agree with the religion, that's fine, you don't have to practice it. Follow your own path and let others find enlightenment for themselves.

Blessed Be, May You Walk With The Grace Of The Goddess
May Peace Travel With You

[edit on 10-6-2004 by The Astral City]

posted on Jun, 11 2004 @ 01:37 PM
Zero deep you are either ingnorant to the subject, or you know the Bible states the Earth is round and you are lying. Which is it?

Check Isaiah 40:22. Check yourself before posting a lie about the Bible.

Job 22:14

Proverbs 8:27

[edit on 11-6-2004 by wooten123]

posted on Jun, 11 2004 @ 03:51 PM
Misktaken maybe, but not ignorant.

When I first became interested in the flat-earthers in the early 1970s, I was surprised to learn that flat-earthism in the English-speaking world is and always has been entirely based upon the Bible. I have since assembled and read an extensive collection of flat-earth literature. The Biblical arguments for flat-earthism that follow come mainly from my reading of flat-earth literature, augmented by my own reading of the Bible.

Johnson's beliefs are firmly grounded in the Bible. Many verses of the Old Testament imply that the earth is flat, but there's more to it than that. According to the New Testament, Jesus ascended up into heaven.

"The whole point of the Copernican theory is to get rid of Jesus by saying there is no up and no down," declares Johnson. "The spinning ball thing just makes the whole Bible a big joke."

Not the Bible but Johnson's own common sense allowed him to see through the globe myth while he was still in grade school. He contends that sensible people all over the world, not just Bible believers, realize that the earth really is flat.

"Wherever you find people with a great reservoir of common sense," he says, "they don't believe idiotic things such as the earth spinning around the sun. Reasonable, intelligent people have always recognized that the earth is flat."

Isaiah 11:12
12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH. (KJV)

Revelation 7:1
1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. (KJV)

Job 38:13
13 That it might take hold of the ENDS OF THE EARTH, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? (KJV)

Jeremiah 16:19
19 O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ENDS OF THE EARTH, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit. (KJV)

Daniel 4:11
11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the ENDS OF ALL THE EARTH: (KJV)

Matthew 4:8
8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; (KJV)

Wether or not the Earth is said to be flat/round in the Bible, I still hold true to my original statement, back then, they would not have known any better.


posted on Jun, 11 2004 @ 04:21 PM

Originally posted by Underling
Solarix, worry not, paperclip is known to rush to the defense of muslims in every thread that concerns them. Islam is a religion bred on the back of war. A religion where their leaders in the very HOMELAND of their beliefs order them to kill innocent people, to use terror as a means of achieving victory. A religion where, as you put it, makes women worthless. Islam is the most hypocritical, perverse religious enigma in existance.

First off... I'm not a Muslim. Nor am I a Jew or a Christian. Just a "seeker".

Solarix and Underling - I'm curious. How many Muslim countries have you been to? I agree that Saudi Arabia, as well as Afghanistan under the Taliban, are/were horridly repressive. But does that represent the "vast majority" of Muslims? I've been to Africa, and I can tell you that in a context where resources are scarce, Islam - though still quite traditional and conservative - is often a force for development, not warmongering. Muslims in a good number of African countries actually cooperate and coexist with other religions to try to make people's lives better. And should I mention that in Morocco, the king himself - guardian of religion and the charia - is spearheading campaigns for widespread education, especially for women?

If you are allowed to say that the VAST majority of Muslims are violent, backwards people, there's only one step from that to the following statement: "All Muslims are terrorists - all Palestinians are Muslim - hence all Palestinians are terrorists, and the only way to secure peace is to exterminate them all to the last."

How would people feel if I started saying that all American Christians are intolerant, arrogant, nearsighted Bible-thumpers who want to dictate law to the rest of us?

Of course, I don't think that. My girlfriend is a practising Christian.

But get the point? Judge not, that ye not be judged.

[edit on 11-6-2004 by Otts]

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