This is not from a christian or jewish perspective; I thought I would get that out of the way to begin with.

Is Islam a religion where you have to check "free-thinking" at the door and embrace a tyranical, murderous, intolerant worldview?

IMO: YES!

1. How can the Koran be the infallable word of God when it contains nonsense like the earth is flat and the sun moves around the earth.

2. How can it be said that Mohammed was a loving and compassionate man yet he killed, robbed and sadisticly tortured people. ie: a man was murdered for making fun of Mohammed in poetry.
Also, Mohammed tortured and punished some by chopping of their arms and legs, burning out their eyeballs and killing them slowly in the harsh elements of the desert.

3. Why do Muslim claim that Mohammed was a liberator of women when it is taught that women are:
a) inferior to men
b) must obey their husbands - or be dealt with harshly
c) Mohammed said that hell was filled with women due to disobeying their husbands
d) Husbands can beat them because Allah promotes this in the koran.
e) Have no essential rights like child-custody and the right to divorce.
f) Court testomony is worth only half of the testomony of a man.
g) She has no autonomy, first her father controls her then her husband.
h) Allah wants them to stay at home and not to came out.
i) They are forbidden to join ceremonies such as funerals.
j) The Koran speaks only towards man as if woman arent full human beings.

4. How can Muslims say that Mohammed was a perfect human-being or even a good man and his example should be followed when it is known that he did a 9-year old girl when he was 53?
Don't many muslims follow this example because the best muslims should follow the Sunna?


5.How can it be said that Islam is a religion of peace and love when the koran teaches that non-believers are forbidden to be friends of muslims and in fact the koran promotes killing them and otherwise abusing them?


[edit on 6-11-2004 by John bull 1]

What a load of bull#.
Everything you said there has been debunked many times on ATS, so I won't bother doing it again now, search the previous topics on Islam.

DEBUNKED?

No.

Not adequately, just another load of crap from those who generally vomit forth the usual unacceptable answers. Pretty pathetic actually.

Solarix, worry not, paperclip is known to rush to the defense of muslims in every thread that concerns them. Islam is a religion bred on the back of war. A religion where their leaders in the very HOMELAND of their beliefs order them to kill innocent people, to use terror as a means of achieving victory. A religion where, as you put it, makes women worthless. Islam is the most hypocritical, perverse religious enigma in existance.

Heh.
If Islam was tolerant it wouldn't need anyone to defend it. Think about it.

As it sits in this modern day world, the way that Islam is practiced by the vast majority of it's followers it is the most intolerant of the major religions.

Like any religion that relies on a tribal god, it's only pertinent to the tribe themselves. Everyone else is seen as an enemy of their god. Either that or they are looked down upon as ignorant with the sneering superiority complex which Islamists have endowed themselves with.



[Edited on 12-4-2004 by Leveller]

I lived in Saudi Arabia for over 4 months. I've seen first hand the way that women are treated there. They are so second rate that they can't even sit in the front seat with their husband. Even if they were the only two members in the car. This probably explains why I never saw a two door pickup in Saudi.

Women can't eat in most public eating places. If they do its in a back door room.

I think pretty much every item that Solarix mentioned is true, from what I personally saw.

There is only one religion that I know of that treats women as the spiritual equal to men and that is Sikhism.

Even Christians regard women as being totally under a fathers, or husbands authority. It is shameful for women to bare their heads in church. And no female apostles, no female priests, and so on.

Islam is only really a few steps further in the same direction.

Even the atheists like the masons hate women by totally excluding them altogether.

So do not condemn another religion for practicing what you practice anyway.

I have read the Koran right through, and yes it is rather vengeful and violent. The old testament is pretty bad as well in that respect.

A bit more tolerance is really called for towards people with different beliefs and skin color to your own. That is what spirituality is all about.

There are religious fanatics and zealots in every country willing to kill torture and destroy for God. They have all lost the plot.

the bible is the only holy book were the god said that he loved the world and its people

Originally posted by Solarix
This is not from a christian or jewish perspective; I thought I would get that out of the way to begin with.

Is Islam a religion where you have to check "free-thinking" at the door and embrace a tyranical, murderous, intolerant worldview?

IMO: YES!

1. How can the Koran be the infallable word of God when it contains nonsense like the earth is flat and the sun moves around the earth.

2. How can it be said that Mohammed was a loving and compassionate man yet he killed, robbed and sadisticly tortured people. ie: a man was murdered for making fun of Mohammed in poetry.
Also, Mohammed tortured and punished some by chopping of their arms and legs, burning out their eyeballs and killing them slowly in the harsh elements of the desert.

3. Why do Muslim claim that Mohammed was a liberator of women when it is taught that women are:
a) inferior to men
b) must obey their husbands - or be dealt with harshly
c) Mohammed said that hell was filled with women due to disobeying their husbands
d) Husbands can beat them because Allah promotes this in the koran.
e) Have no essential rights like child-custody and the right to divorce.
f) Court testomony is worth only half of the testomony of a man.
g) She has no autonomy, first her father controls her then her husband.
h) Allah wants them to stay at home and not to came out.
i) They are forbidden to join ceremonies such as funerals.
j) The Koran speaks only towards man as if woman arent full human beings.

4. How can Muslims say that Mohammed was a perfect human-being or even a good man and his example should be followed when it is known that he did a 9-year old girl when he was 53?
Don't many muslims follow this example because the best muslims should follow the Sunna?


5.How can it be said that Islam is a religion of peace and love when the koran teaches that non-believers are forbidden to be friends of muslims and in fact the koran promotes killing them and otherwise abusing them?

Repeated 100 times.
Refuted 100 times.

Originally posted by KrazyIvan
the bible is the only holy book were the god said that he loved the world and its people

Holy Qur'an, 1:1

In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
Praise be to Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the Worlds;
Most Gracious, Most Merciful;
Master of the Day of Judgment.
You do we worship, and Your aid do we seek.
Show us the straight way.
The way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace, those whose portion is not wrath, and who do not go astray.

----------------------

You see, reading is so cool. If you actually open up a Qur'an and read it you might learn something.

No illmatic, if you look at the mideast and look how they practise this "religion", then look at the past of this theology, you'll find you are the one who's refuted what's really going on, and what has been going on in the subversive element of Islam since its beginning.

Originally posted by Underling
No illmatic, if you look at the mideast and look how they practise this "religion", then look at the past of this theology, you'll find you are the one who's refuted what's really going on, and what has been going on in the subversive element of Islam since its beginning.

No, underling, you are wrong.

Solarix put all his heart and soul into this thread I bet (Unless he didn't get it from somewhere else) but I want him to do the same with Judaism because everything he posted in that is how Judaism is practiced.

I have a friend who's father is a very Orthodox Jew. It's the same thing but it's only noted when it's Islam.

I'll give you that much, that judaism has its own disgusting points, but some of the things of which solarix wrote about are undeniable. I'm not a christian trying to bash Islam, or you, who i would believe is a member of NOI, but i'm looking at it from a human perspective. Religion was meant to be a stabalizing force in the world, but Christians, and more violently Jews and Muslims, have shown that it's going to end up destroying the world, rather than saving it.

Agreed Underling. These people just won't put aside their hate.

I expect this will happen to all religions eventually as science proves these superstitous belief systems to be without any rational foundation in reality. More people will see past the dogma and reject the so called "holy men" that would enslave them to fear.

Illmatic67, I notice that you refute what Solarix said by pointing to Judaism and saying "Hey, they do it too". Well, that justifies or refutes nothing. This is what I mean by "not putting the hate aside". You don't let go of the hate, you just send it back out to do more harm.

I try to refrain from Religious debate, as they tend to be passionate, therefore clouded by emotion. However, I would like to point out a few things. ALL future post making sweeping statement of another religion from here on should be backed by imperial data and references. Painting with such a broad brush is detrimental to intelligent conversations and ignorant. (no disrespect to anyone, but it is)

The comments made toward the islamic religion are based on the actions of a group og people who by no means represent the ENTIRE religion. Although war or Jihad may be a part of the religios beliefs, the causes for which one fights differs in each MAN!

All religions have there pros and cons, We can't trample on someone's religion, until you expopse and discuss the negatives of your religion as well? If you want to be critical, be truely critical!


On A personal note...
The only thing that strikes me as odd is those religions who who seem to have a high rate of members/followers/believers who take liberty with minors, and steal their innocence. These people often are some of the most "clean" people, but in their closest lay deep dark secrets.... Sort of like this country, and some of it's founders, presidents, and button pushers!



[Edited on 12-4-2004 by Freeworld_Esq.]

let me guess.....ur a self-centered christian who believes that every religion is wrong. well, christianity along with all religions have just as many fallacies. that's y i turned into an atheist. to find and live by the truth instead of pissing money away to all these lies.

Mostley all religions are corrupted the only religons closest to the truth are Buddism.

Well i think the Islamic and Christianic + Judism god is the same god

As Islam from Muhammed see Jesus as a Prophet from god and Christians see Jesus as the son of god meaning that they acknolege the same god and if they both acknolege the same god then i believe the Old testiment ties in with both Judasm, Christians and Muslims from foundation times

(Thats just my opinion i could be wrong)

Pardon me, is this a conspiratorial thread, or is it merely another bash-a-religion thread?!?


Please, read the forum and try and make it fit. Do you think in the history of ATS you are the first to come here and reveal such notions about Islam? How many mental midgets do you think charge in here doing the same thing for Christianity and Judaism?

How about some genuine conspiracy, huh?

Repeated 100 times
Refuted 100 times.

People have been trying to bash Islam for a long time now on ATS, it's getting old and all of it has been refuted.

Illmatic67, I notice that you refute what Solarix said by pointing to Judaism and saying "Hey, they do it too". Well, that justifies or refutes nothing.

No, that is not why I said that. I think people should be fair. Don't just single out one religion because you don't like it or because you don't know anything about it, but talk about them all.

That is why I've said that.