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Has Mankind been Duped into Rejecting The only Redeemer?

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posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 10:53 AM
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reply to post by John Matrix
 


The problem is that the dogma connected to Christianity doesn’t allow for people to think on their own. It states that the heads of the church are right no matter what you personally believe. That is the reason people find it hard to put credit to it. The dogma creates the brainwashed closed mindedness. A lot of people can’t look past the dogma and study on their own. Not realizing that a lot of today’s Christians do not follow the church and study on their own and realize that they are now closer to God and are stronger spiritually. If you seek you will find what you are looking for you just have to want the answer and ask the right questions. My opinion only.




posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 10:56 AM
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Originally posted by letthereaderunderstand

True Christians never even knew they were christian or anything else for that matter. "I came to those who did not know me"...is what God says, yet Jesus says, "My sheep know my voice. They will not follow another..."


Thanks for dropping by. I like your Aikido style use of language.....kinda hits you when and where you don't expect it....



posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 10:59 AM
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Originally posted by Ant4AU
reply to post by John Matrix
 


The problem is that the dogma connected to Christianity doesn’t allow for people to think on their own. It states that the heads of the church are right no matter what you personally believe. That is the reason people find it hard to put credit to it. The dogma creates the brainwashed closed mindedness. A lot of people can’t look past the dogma and study on their own. Not realizing that a lot of today’s Christians do not follow the church and study on their own and realize that they are now closer to God and are stronger spiritually. If you seek you will find what you are looking for you just have to want the answer and ask the right questions. My opinion only.


And these are very good reasons to leave the Church behind. When they see no one around, they may run to catch up to the rest of the free thinkers who have seen through their foolish politicised system of organised authority and hierarchy.



posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 11:53 AM
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Originally posted by Wertdagf
reply to post by John Matrix
 


If i couldnt explain to you everything that jesus taught with logic. Then i would expect you to still lean on some ignorance in a book. You dont need a heaven or a hell to love and understand your brother... and if you do .. then you are already in hell.


I have often thought this is Hell. How is things where you are? Is it Heaven there?



posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 12:14 PM
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reply to post by John Matrix
 


If it wasnt for a world of people suffering because of their ignroance it would be. The few with a bit of logic get stuck on religion which enslaves them and promises punishment for anyone who doubts the grand delusion.

This ignorance of love and forgiveness. Ignorance of Faith. Its sickening...
I will walk on their ashes.



posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 12:29 PM
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reply to post by Wertdagf
 


You are the perfect person that represents that the dogma of Christianity is the problem. You are holding that against the religion. The teachings of the scriptures is what is important. If you replace God with karma there is still punishment for bad deeds. The meaning of the words are what is important. Once the dogma of the Christian faith is looked past then you see the truth behind the religion.

Religion actually promises a fulfilled life. If you live your life doing good deeds even karma rewards you for good deeds. Yes people can have love and understanding without a God. But that does not prove that God doesn’t exist.

I would have to agree with you that those who are stuck to the dogma are stuck in the grand delusion. I am not suffering for my beliefs. I truly feel sorry for you if you think that the fact that I believe in God is hindering me. Feeling love and forgiveness is ignorant? I will definitely need an explanation on that one.



posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 01:26 PM
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Originally posted by Ant4AU
reply to post by Wertdagf
 


You are the perfect person that represents that the dogma of Christianity is the problem. You are holding that against the religion. The teachings of the scriptures is what is important. If you replace God with karma there is still punishment for bad deeds. The meaning of the words are what is important. Once the dogma of the Christian faith is looked past then you see the truth behind the religion.

Religion actually promises a fulfilled life. If you live your life doing good deeds even karma rewards you for good deeds. Yes people can have love and understanding without a God. But that does not prove that God doesn’t exist.

I would have to agree with you that those who are stuck to the dogma are stuck in the grand delusion. I am not suffering for my beliefs. I truly feel sorry for you if you think that the fact that I believe in God is hindering me. Feeling love and forgiveness is ignorant? I will definitely need an explanation on that one.


Karma is just another ignorant belief. Another reason for ignorant people to do good things or else. A fear of punishment and not a love of good.

Love and forgiveness are NOT possible without Understanding.



posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 01:46 PM
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Originally posted by Wertdagf

Originally posted by Ant4AU
reply to post by Wertdagf
 




Love and forgiveness are NOT possible without Understanding.




Yes and people come by understanding in many different ways. No one way is the right way for everybody. I don't think that I understand everything there is to know about God and don't expect anyone to think that I do. We spend our whole lives trying to understand people and what they do. Understand the world and the way it is. Saying that you know the one way is just as delusional as any Christian who feels his interpretation of the scriptures is correct.

I am not trying to change your beliefs, you are free to believe or know what ever it is you feel is right for you. And nothing you say in this forum is going to change the believers minds. Your words help us even more to believe in our faith.



posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 02:04 PM
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reply to post by Ant4AU
 


The bible doesnt teach why you should forgive others. It tells you to do it or go to hell. The bible doesnt teach you to love... it tells you to do it or got to hell. The bible doesnt teach you understanding............. IT SAYS DO WHAT I SAY OR GO TO HELL.

pitifull religion.



posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 02:08 PM
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Originally posted by Wertdagf
reply to post by John Matrix
 


If it wasnt for a world of people suffering because of their ignroance it would be. The few with a bit of logic get stuck on religion which enslaves them and promises punishment for anyone who doubts the grand delusion.

This ignorance of love and forgiveness. Ignorance of Faith. Its sickening...
I will walk on their ashes.


So if you love me and forgive me, you are ignorant?



posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 02:10 PM
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Originally posted by John Matrix
reply to post by bandaidctrl
 


Can you find a link to that book on Shamanism?



Amazon link

-JR



posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 02:11 PM
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Originally posted by John Matrix

Originally posted by Wertdagf
reply to post by John Matrix
 


If it wasnt for a world of people suffering because of their ignroance it would be. The few with a bit of logic get stuck on religion which enslaves them and promises punishment for anyone who doubts the grand delusion.

This ignorance of love and forgiveness. Ignorance of Faith. Its sickening...
I will walk on their ashes.


So if you love me and forgive me, you are ignorant?


Im saying that they do not understand Love and forgiveness... im saying they of all people have no understanding of faith.

You are allowing your weak mind to read incorrectly, because you have nothing left.



posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 02:23 PM
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Originally posted by Wertdagf
reply to post by Ant4AU
 


The bible doesnt teach why you should forgive others. It tells you to do it or go to hell. The bible doesnt teach you to love... it tells you to do it or got to hell. The bible doesnt teach you understanding............. IT SAYS DO WHAT I SAY OR GO TO HELL.

pitifull religion.


There are two Ways to Live.

One is for "Self" which has all of it's delusions, deceptions, controls, rules, which leads to strife, conflict, wars, murders, lies, injustices, crimes, etc.

The other is for God which is Love, forgiveness, reconciliation, restoration, Humility, Meekness, Patience, etc.

[edit on 21-1-2009 by John Matrix]



posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 02:32 PM
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Originally posted by John Matrix

Originally posted by Wertdagf
reply to post by Ant4AU
 


The bible doesnt teach why you should forgive others. It tells you to do it or go to hell. The bible doesnt teach you to love... it tells you to do it or got to hell. The bible doesnt teach you understanding............. IT SAYS DO WHAT I SAY OR GO TO HELL.

pitifull religion.


There are two Ways to Live.

One is for "Self" which has all of it's delusions, deceptions, controls, rules, which leads to strife, conflict, wars, murders, lies, injustices, crimes, etc.

The other is for God which is Love, forgiveness, reconciliation, restoration, Humility, Meekness, Patience, etc.

[edit on 21-1-2009 by John Matrix]


Your Religion has no explination for the things even I understand without your god. Your ignorant religion teaches people to Do these things without any reasoning behind it.

I tell YOU that these things are explainable by ME when no where in your BIBLE is what i have said written. What i have said about those values are understandable with the words i have used. You say AMEN to those things which i have said YET THEY ARE NEVER EXPLAINED IN THE BIBLE.

What Need do you have of a book that threatens DAMNATION if you do not willfully give over yourself to be a slave to ignorance.

WHat need do you have for this ignroant belief anymore? For your precious afterlife? Do you still now cling to the pitifull idea that you will be given eternal life as a reward for you ignorance?



posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 03:00 PM
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reply to post by Wertdagf
 


Some people act like the Bible is another appendage attached to their bodies and life, relying on it for salvation....some religious nuts think their religion will save them.

We really don't need either. But to be honest, I get confusing messages from you. Plain talk makes good sense.



posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 03:05 PM
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reply to post by John Matrix
 


Very good post you made about that we are searching for something we lost long ago. Our oneness with the Father when we lost that right when our first parents fell from grace. Christ is indeed our redeemer and through him we have access to the Father again.

I believe it is within out nature to have this heartfelt desire to search for our maker.

There truly is no greater love story ever told and a life's journey that is so sweet. Oh, to be in love with God.......what a amazing thing indeed



Peace to all,
Grandma



posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 03:06 PM
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reply to post by John Matrix
 


The Way i discribe LOVE, FORGIVENESS, and UNDERSTANDING are found NOWHERE in the bible. The bible instead tells you to remain ignorant of these things and believe it or GO TO HELL.

What is so hard for you to understand. Show me those things in the bible that you agree with me on... show me where they are in the bible. show me where your almightly god has explained these things as simply as i have.



posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 04:21 PM
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reply to post by Wertdagf
 


Emphasis mine:


The Way i discribe LOVE, FORGIVENESS, and UNDERSTANDING are found NOWHERE in the bible. The bible instead tells you to remain ignorant of these things and believe it or GO TO HELL.


This simply isn't true. The Bible does not tell us to be "ignorant of these things".

LOVE:
1 Cor. 12:1 through 1 Cor 14:40
The whole book of 1 John is about love.

FORGIVENESS:
Matt 6
Matt 18

UNDERSTANDING:
The whole book of Proverbs gives instruction on understanding:
Proverbs 1:1-2 The proverbs of Solomon the son of David, king of Israel;
2 To know wisdom and instruction; to perceive the words of understanding;

There is a wisdom in the Bible that absolutely contradicts what "commonly" passes as wisdom to a natural man.

You also said:

What Need do you have of a book that threatens DAMNATION if you do not willfully give over yourself to be a slave to ignorance.


I think you have it backwards. Sinful mankind is ALREADY condemned:
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Both of these verses imply a state of "already damned". It is a subtle, but important difference to me.

I also believe that there is no way that I could "willfully give myself" to Jesus.
Jesus said:
John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.



posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 04:34 PM
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Originally posted by Wertdagf
reply to post by John Matrix
 


The Way i discribe LOVE, FORGIVENESS, and UNDERSTANDING are found NOWHERE in the bible. The bible instead tells you to remain ignorant of these things and believe it or GO TO HELL.

What is so hard for you to understand. Show me those things in the bible that you agree with me on... show me where they are in the bible. show me where your almightly god has explained these things as simply as i have.



He that loveth not, knoweth not God for God is Love.
If you say you love God but in your heart you hate your brother, you are a liar and the truth is not in you.
Love your neighbor as yourself.
Greater love has no man than he who lays down his life for a friend.
Love is patient, kind, considerate, doesn't envy, not proud, not self seeking, not boastful, is forgiving, merciful, honorable, just, etc.

What's your description?


[edit on 21-1-2009 by John Matrix]



posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 05:24 PM
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reply to post by PreTribGuy
 


The book Corinthians tells you to speak in tounges... which is a bunch of bull crap. Does not explain WHY you should love somone other than knowing a mystical god would bring that about. Again generalitys based on fake knowledge of a magical god.

Matthew talks of good acts BUT without logical explination.

saddly the bible was written by confused people who believed in a magical god that would anwser their prayers.

Remebering jesus's name will not help you one bit... ever.

John-
Those are good words... but yet again you give no WHY to your attempt. You have listed the symptoms of love without explaining why somone would have the motive.... you have not explained them. My GOD and your GOD are very differnt.

You think god is some magical divine being that flys around on a cloud granting wishes.

I think that god was a geometric design of the infinite fractal division of space givin to a bunch retarded desert people who got all confused and started thinking it was a person.



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