Has Mankind been Duped into Rejecting The only Redeemer?

Are we in a fallen state as the Bible says? If not, then why do we seek a higher state of consciousness, awakening, enlightenment, oneness with God, etc.?

The animals do what they have always done and nothing more.

Mankind is different, always striving to attain some higher state than His present one.

Has mankind been duped into believing He can attain a higher state of being without Christ as His redeemer?

Why? Why? Why?

Actually not all of mankind is striving to achieve a higher state. Some people feel that they are missing something, so they look outward for some solution to their "problems". Other people are just living in the moment, happy to be alive.

Irregardless of whether I may, or may not, agree with your religious beliefs; I think it's safe to state the most appropriate answer to such a question ("Why, why, why?) is:

The flaw lies in the messengers, not the message.

MM

Originally posted by Maxmars
Irregardless of whether I may, or may not, agree with your religious beliefs; I think it's safe to state the most appropriate answer to such a question ("Why, why, why?) is:

The flaw lies in the messengers, not the message.

MM

What is the flaw in the messenger?

reply to post by John Matrix


There is no WE here, lol, speak for yourself.

Those who sacrifice their freedom of thought for a safety of "eternal" life are the ones who are actually fallen

Originally posted by cancerian42
Actually not all of mankind is striving to achieve a higher state. Some people feel that they are missing something, so they look outward for some solution to their "problems". Other people are just living in the moment, happy to be alive.

Cows eat grass, but don't try to grow better more tasty grass.
Beavers still make dams from branches and mud and don't look for better materials like bricks.
All animal life seems to be pre programmed to do nothing more than what they can do by their nature, and never more.

Man is always striving and seeking more. More knowledge, more wisdom, enlightenment, etc.

Doesn't this indicate that mankind is searching for something that by His very nature he knows he once had?

Originally posted by 5thElement
Those who sacrifice their freedom of thought for a safety of "eternal" life are the ones who are actually fallen

That is what I have always thought too. The only reason christians (and any kind of religious followers) exist is because they fear that a book with horrible things in it involving them, might actually come true.

No

Mankind simply has a more powerful brain, we have developed more, we have reasoning and thought capabilities, we don't simply function on genetic survival thoughts as such.


You can't compare beavers and cows to humans...

Mankind gets bored, they invent, they think, have vivid imaginations and struggle with their own existence... they get scared so they create a savior to make themselves feel better...

[edit on 19-1-2009 by Gears Of War]

Yes, the world certainly is in a fallen state. The weirdest part of that is people spend just as much effort on maintaining this condition as they do to free themselves from it.

Something is benefitting from the world as it has been and an improvement is not at all beneficial to it.

Don't despair, however, the creation has a mind of its own and appears to be self correcting; putting things back where they belong whether they like it or not.

And as a more direct response to your question. The Redeemer doesn't require acceptance or acknowledgement to correct what belongs to him and if your life is aligned with his it will improve with no additional effort required on your part.

Originally posted by 5thElement
reply to post by John Matrix

 

There is no WE here, lol, speak for yourself.

Those who sacrifice their freedom of thought for a safety of "eternal" life are the ones who are actually fallen

Or, is it not possible that you are bound by Your fallen Nature, and therefore not as free as you think you are?

And, Is it not possible that there is a Higher nature, "A Supernatural Nature" one can have?



[edit on 19-1-2009 by John Matrix]

The flaws in the messengers are self-evident.

The major proselytizers of religion, Christian or otherwise, are all compromised to interface with the people they call their flock. Politics in religion, perhaps, is the best simplistic answer.

The simple truths are all easily ascertained by the spiritually-minded, Muslim, Christian, Jew, Hindu; it matters not a stitch what they think they know about the other. Each has the same humanistic mandate which promotes a harmonious existence with the world in which we live.

The messengers 'promoting' their religion, or doctrine, as superior, or having supremacy over others is the problem.

WE all have eternal life. How we spend it is the question...
How we spend it is a reflection of how we live here now......
Freedom of choice is totally ours......even if you don't believe
in a God we have freedom of choice. If you do believe in God, and if this is so, even the demons believe but are disobedient, you must realize that choosing thru freedom of choice to disobey God makes one no more salvagible than demons; who had the knowledge and decided to disobey. As humans we have some latitude because we are mortal and not fully knowledgeable. I look at it this way...1. If there is a god and I don't believe I am screwed...for eternity. The risk is not worth it. God says those who believe and have faith are blessed. I read the book and in the end........God wins. We each must choose which team to be on....forget the other stuff.....Gods team or Satans team. Pick. If this was gambling it would be a no brainer......God wins. My money is there and even so God will tell us everything after it is over. Right now the test if faith.....Faith Faith.......I can gamble my meager few mortal years on eternity and on Faith that God owns me. That is fine........he created all this including the internet that we use. He allows things......how we use it is up to us......that is the interesting part. Remember easy bet: God wins...... place your bets

Originally posted by huckfinn
Yes, the world certainly is in a fallen state. The weirdest part of that is people spend just as much effort on maintaining this condition as they do to free themselves from it.

Something is benefitting from the world as it has been and an improvement is not at all beneficial to it.

Don't despair, however, the creation has a mind of its own and appears to be self correcting; putting things back where they belong whether they like it or not.

And as a more direct response to your question. The Redeemer doesn't require acceptance or acknowledgement to correct what belongs to him and if your life is aligned with his it will improve with no additional effort required on your part.

Yes, it sounds like you have knowledge of "predestination". Am I correct?

Originally posted by John Matrix
Cows eat grass, but don't try to grow better more tasty grass.

How do you know what the cows think the grass taste like, they could think it was the best tasting food in the world, but even if they don't, the reason they don't grow tastier grass is pretty obvious, they don't have any shovels or rakes, duh...

All animal life seems to be pre programmed to do nothing more than what they can do by their nature, and never more.

What are you talking about?

Man is always striving and seeking more. More knowledge, more wisdom, enlightenment, etc.

And did your pet beaver tell you that he wasn't seeking any more knowledge?

Doesn't this indicate that mankind is searching for something that by His very nature he knows he once had?

No.

Originally posted by speaknoevil07
WE all have eternal life. How we spend it is the question...
How we spend it is a reflection of how we live here now......
Freedom of choice is totally ours......even if you don't believe
in a God we have freedom of choice. If you do believe in God, and if this is so, even the demons believe but are disobedient, you must realize that choosing thru freedom of choice to disobey God makes one no more salvagible than demons; who had the knowledge and decided to disobey. As humans we have some latitude because we are mortal and not fully knowledgeable. I look at it this way...1. If there is a god and I don't believe I am screwed...for eternity. The risk is not worth it. God says those who believe and have faith are blessed. I read the book and in the end........God wins. We each must choose which team to be on....forget the other stuff.....Gods team or Satans team. Pick. If this was gambling it would be a no brainer......God wins. My money is there and even so God will tell us everything after it is over. Right now the test if faith.....Faith Faith.......I can gamble my meager few mortal years on eternity and on Faith that God owns me. That is fine........he created all this including the internet that we use. He allows things......how we use it is up to us......that is the interesting part. Remember easy bet: God wins......

place your bets

Yes, I like what you have said.
Would you agree then, that we stand in the midst of two eternities, with a free will to live for one or the other, and at the end of one's life, either a devil or an angel will emerge and enter the appropriate entenity?

I don't know what is predestination. I only know that what I see is not sustainable, it is inorganic, mechanical and rigid, and someone is benefitting from it and is doing everything it can to keep it as it is...a consolation after having failed to completely consolidate its true vision, with this last war.

But the global social system has its own anti-virus protection as it is and doesn't require the input of men to improve it. Religion looks to be a pamphlet begging to you stay out of the way, while this goes down.

I do agree with your above characterization that we are in the midst of two eternities. It was called in David's Psalm, the valley of the Shadow of Death. Some go to the Pit. I'll go to the mountain...actually I am already on the Mountain waiting for the rest of the darkness to be swept into the Pit.

reply to post by cancerian42


What I mean is that animals do what they seem to be programmed to do and never anything more. I've played some computer games and I started to see that, if you take any animal, they always act the same way, a lot like the Artificial Intelligence programing in some computer games.

OK, have a good laugh, I don't mind. If I can make you crack a smile, then I will take it as a good thing.

If it's a predator, they hunt, kill, eat, sleep, drink, that same way all the time. If a Cow, it does what cows always have done. Pick any animal, they do as they always have.

Surely the same can't be said for mankind who is obviously always looking for some higher state of being, and bettering for himself. Sure, some things in mankind's nature never change...such as his deceitfulness, even deceiving himself quite often etc.

reply to post by huckfinn



I shall return in 30 min and discuss this more with everyone.
Thanks for you attention and patience.

reply to post by 5thElement

Those who sacrifice their freedom of thought for a safety of "eternal" life are the ones who are actually fallen

You do not have to sacrifice your freedom of thought to believe the Bible or to follow God. The true teachings of the bible are just to live a life not consumed by the world around you. To live a life that you could be proud of.

I am free to think for myself. I can ask why things are the way they are without being punished by God. Believing that there is a surpreme being that created the world and all that is in it doesn't make you a lunatic or a fanatic. If you believe then every thing that is happening today makes since to you.