Has Mankind been Duped into Rejecting The only Redeemer?

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posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 08:15 PM
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Originally posted by cancerian42

Can you explain to me how we could have been more divine. It doesn't make much sense to me, did God love us more when we didn't have knowledge of good and evil assuming that is the case? Why?


Is it not possible that Adam and Eve lived in the Eternal Realm with God, and therefore were Eternal Beings, made a little lower than Angels; and they caused their bodies and the Earth to break forth into it's present materiality?




posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 08:16 PM
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Originally posted by John Matrix
Are we in a fallen state as the Bible says? If not, then why do we seek a higher state of consciousness, awakening, enlightenment, oneness with God, etc.?

The animals do what they have always done and nothing more.

Mankind is different, always striving to attain some higher state than His present one.

Has mankind been duped into believing He can attain a higher state of being without Christ as His redeemer?

Why? Why? Why?


Well I personally believe the fallen state can be taken from individual from individual, but the only worldwide fallen state I can think of was during the dark ages, those were the days the bible was ripped apart, true books taken out false books added, purposeful mistranslations, King James adding the word James more than it had originally had, although I do believe the King James version is still the most accurate english translation. Whenever people are stoning prophets to death we are in a fallen state, people don't really stone to death anymore at least in the west, maybe they still do in the middle east or China.

All these things are my opinions and I tend to write less and less on these forums about my religious opinions because they are un-provable, I'd say man that has ever sought spirituality has always sought englightenment, many don't find it, because they aren't looking too hard, the answer is right in front of everyones faces, all they have to do is ask the supreme being....

In asking the supreme being, I've found, you usually don't get an answer that is clear as day, but... what I've found is this, pray with the actual belief that the supreme being or God is hearing your prayer in real-time, it takes a little faith, just believe that a being out there knows who you are, knows your thoughts, knows your words, and in real-time can actually hear you like your on the phone, you can ask God anything thats on your mind, but I've noticed if the questions are not specific you will not get a specific answer, if you ask a specific YES or NO question, you can get a specific YES or NO answer, I *have* had yes or no questions answered by the supreme being so I know it works, one would say it was evil but God is love and his Spirit is love and it can't easily be confused with the hateful spirit of evil, my yes or no questions were personal but no matter how 'dumb' the topic, no matter how funny the question, if you honestly want to know the answer, think about it for more than a few days, then ask sincerely wanting to know.... That's a major step that athiests have with prayer, they might try it for mocking purposes or they might try it with skepticism in their heart but if they ask sincerely being honest, they will get an answer the bible promises.


Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: Matt 7:7



For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. Luke 11:10


For those that aren't interested in knowing or asking, an interest can't be forced into them by me or anyone.

I do believe that many have been decieved by their religion, the ones that replace Christ with something else, of course non-christians woud not agree, but Scientology for example, they replace Christ with mind over matter type thinking, it can only do so much good it can't redeem sin, there will always be an emptyness to those that replace Christ, because sin can only be cleaned away through the sacrifice of Jesus. Through Jesus, the more I repent the more quickened my mind is, the more I can focus on important matters, and be enlightened.

I do believe a form of enlightenment can be reached through meditation and being generally a good person, but it can't make one perfect except through Christ.

[edit on 19-1-2009 by Razimus]



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 08:17 PM
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reply to post by John Matrix
 


Pretty much, not that i think wanting things is bad in it self, it's when the troubles of life choke out the gospel, when they become the focus of our existence. So yes basically I agree with your statement. I was trying to point out that some people cannot hear what God is saying, no matter how much you'd like them too.



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 08:21 PM
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reply to post by John Matrix
 

What would be the point in creating food for them if they were not material beings. The bible says that they were human, non-material beings are not human and they don't have ribs or need food.



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 08:28 PM
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check out needgod.com and wayofthemaster.com

they will help you understand the "why why why" question.

Im a christian and its not because of :some horrible stuff in a book might come true"

needgod.com

bye



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 08:38 PM
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reply to post by Razimus
 


No one should tread on what you have stated as it is from your heart.
I appreciate the insight and experiences you have shared.



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 08:44 PM
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Originally posted by cancerian42
reply to post by John Matrix
 

What would be the point in creating food for them if they were not material beings. The bible says that they were human, non-material beings are not human and they don't have ribs or need food.


Right, but do we know for certain that non-material beings needed to eat?
It can be assumed that they could eat if they wanted to.

What I am saying is that the Earth was also in a different state, as were the animals, and all creation, but the entire creation, including the Universe; broke fourth into materiality at the Fall of mankind.

I suppose it is an overwhelming thought, but who can say Yes, or No?



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 08:50 PM
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reply to post by cancerian42
 


BTW: I love your avatar, it is very Majestic.

oops, I guess that is off topic....unless I add that we need a redeemer to regenerate the Divine Life in us that we once had, and allow us to enter Heaven when we shed this vessel we call our fleshly bodies.



[edit on 19-1-2009 by John Matrix]



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 08:55 PM
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reply to post by John Matrix
 

but the way it is described in Genesis doesn't really sound like that to me. It sounds pretty rock solid. Like I said though, unlimited possibilities.

:edit: thanks for the compliment on Eleanor of Aquitaine(my avatar).

[edit on 19-1-2009 by cancerian42]



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 08:56 PM
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John, the universe is a fractal. There has been no divine creator.
when the day comes that you can no longer run from this realization you will see that you have wasted all of these years on something so useless. You will realize that no one has been watching over you and that there is no "god".

I want you to know that i love you. I know that you and me are interchangable and that it is only our positions in this infinte universe that has made us differnt. Remeber what ive said here. Do not kill yourself if just for my sake.



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 08:59 PM
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Originally posted by Wertdagf
There has been no divine creator.

And you know this how?

when the day comes that you can no longer run from this realization you will see that you have wasted all of these years on something so useless. You will realize that no one has been watching over you and that there is no "god".
Nothing is a waste.



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 09:03 PM
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reply to post by Wertdagf
 


You have no more proof of God not existing than you do if God exists. It is all in ones belief the existence of God. You do not believe so for you he doesn't exist. But those of us that do believe he is real. Also to those of us who believe, the actions of nonbelievers solidify are believes because our scriptures tell us that there will be people speaking against the existence God. So to all those who disbelieve keep it up your only helping our beliefs.



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 09:06 PM
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Originally posted by cancerian42
reply to post by John Matrix
 

but the way it is described in Genesis doesn't really sound like that to me. It sounds pretty rock solid. Like I said though, unlimited possibilities.

:edit: thanks for the compliment on Eleanor of Aquitaine(my avatar).

[edit on 19-1-2009 by cancerian42]


Perhaps it's been too long since I looked back at Genesis, but I think the story is just an overview and a lot more was going on that we don't need to know about.

The main theme is that mankind Fell, and mankind, as well as all of nature, is under a curse which someday will be lifted. The earth will be restored to what it was before the Fall, and the animals will also be restored(lion will lie down with a lamb, etc.).

In the meantime, since Christ ascended to the right hand of the Father, man has the opportunity to accept redemption through a rebirth of the Spirit that was lost at the Fall.



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 09:14 PM
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Originally posted by Ant4AU
reply to post by Wertdagf
 


You have no more proof of God not existing than you do if God exists. It is all in ones belief the existence of God. You do not believe so for you he doesn't exist. But those of us that do believe he is real. Also to those of us who believe, the actions of nonbelievers solidify are believes because our scriptures tell us that there will be people speaking against the existence God. So to all those who disbelieve keep it up your only helping our beliefs.


You... you are just a perfect example. The human mind can place itself is such a loop of logic. just remeber that i knew and that i have already forgivin you. I know how you will feel.



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 09:21 PM
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reply to post by John Matrix
 


this is not exactly true there are animals that have recently made changes to the way they do things here is a post i found interesting

www.youtube.com...

[edit on 19/1/09 by redwolf.of.odin]



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 09:27 PM
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Originally posted by Wertdagf
John, the universe is a fractal. There has been no divine creator.
when the day comes that you can no longer run from this realization you will see that you have wasted all of these years on something so useless. You will realize that no one has been watching over you and that there is no "god".

I want you to know that i love you. I know that you and me are interchangable and that it is only our positions in this infinte universe that has made us differnt. Remeber what ive said here. Do not kill yourself if just for my sake.


If my delusion causes me to be at peace, helps me sleep at night, gives me a clear conscience, assists me in loving my neighbor as myself, gives me something other than myself to exalt, causes me to be willing to help others, provides me with empathy and compassion, raises my IQ scores to 145 from 120, gives me creative abilities that I did not have before, etc. and; prevents me from entertaining all manner of evil thoughts,

Is that something I should regret at the end of my life?

It seems to me that my delusion is a help, not a hindrance.

And, I love you too. We have crossed swords and I am better for it.
No hard feelings from the past......you actually made my day a few times and sent me rolling on the floor laughing.....probably the combination of your words and your avatar...quite qute actually

[edit on 19-1-2009 by John Matrix]



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 09:27 PM
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reply to post by Wertdagf
 


Okay I am in a loop of logic where I believe I am a created being from a higher power. You are in a loop of logic where we were a freak of nature cooked up in a pool of sludge. That is fine, I am not here to judge your beliefs. We are in two different loops. But who’s loop is right. I cannot prove I am right and you can not prove you are right. I’m sorry I don’t need your forgiveness. With us being in two different loops then my beliefs are not hurting you and your beliefs aren’t hurting me. So why step into my loop just to crap on it. If you choose not to believe that is fine, but there is no reason for you to crap on other peoples belief. If you are right then I have wasted nothing I lived my life to fullest and had a good time and my bones will simply become dirt and an eternity won‘t matter. But if I am right I will be with the creator in an eternity of joy and happiness and you won’t.



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 09:31 PM
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all so on the main topic i agree that most people in the world seek a inlightenment in one form or another. but i do not think this is a new think i think it is something we have been doing for all of recorded time. mans search for enlightenment pretty much started when we used tools for the first time. the conception of human thought.



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 09:35 PM
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Originally posted by redwolf.of.odin
reply to post by John Matrix
 


this is not exactly true there are animals that have recently made changes to the way they do things here is a post i found interesting

www.youtube.com...

[edit on 19/1/09 by redwolf.of.odin]


Yes, it has begun. The renewal that the Bible speaks of. All of creation is about to transform.

I started a thread which people have been posting these types of videos.

the thread is here and I encourage everyone to check it out. I believe these animal behaviors are a sign or the beginning of a transformation that is coming or has already begun.

www.abovetopsecret.com...




posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 09:35 PM
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reply to post by Ant4AU
 


There is a differance though.... One of our loops is based on real research and explorations... the other is based on one book that tells you to belive it or go to hell.

The earth is not 6000 years old.... Noahs ark is NOT FEASIBLE AT ALL.





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