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Originally posted by Wertdagf
reply to post by Ant4AU
There is no need for these things to be tied to a heaven or a hell... to a man on a cross or up in the clouds. These things are real and understandable... you dont need to spend your life worshiping someone else.... some person. You can have these understandings as your own for i have explained it. Just let the reader understand.
Originally posted by godless
Originally posted by John Matrix
Are we in a fallen state as the Bible says? If not, then why do we seek a higher state of consciousness, awakening, enlightenment, oneness with God, etc.?
The animals do what they have always done and nothing more.
Mankind is different, always striving to attain some higher state than His present one.
Has mankind been duped into believing He can attain a higher state of being without Christ as His redeemer?
Why? Why? Why?
Was Moses schizophrenic? Was Jesus?
Originally posted by John Matrix
Cows eat grass, but don't try to grow better more tasty grass.
Beavers still make dams from branches and mud and don't look for better materials like bricks.
All animal life seems to be pre programmed to do nothing more than what they can do by their nature, and never more.
Man is always striving and seeking more. More knowledge, more wisdom, enlightenment, etc.
Originally posted by John Matrix
Are we in a fallen state as the Bible says? If not, then why do we seek a higher state of consciousness, awakening, enlightenment, oneness with God, etc.?
The animals do what they have always done and nothing more.
Mankind is different, always striving to attain some higher state than His present one.
Has mankind been duped into believing He can attain a higher state of being without Christ as His redeemer?
Why? Why? Why?
Originally posted by cancerian42
Actually not all of mankind is striving to achieve a higher state. Some people feel that they are missing something, so they look outward for some solution to their "problems". Other people are just living in the moment, happy to be alive.
Originally posted by John Matrix
Are we in a fallen state as the Bible says? If not, then why do we seek a higher state of consciousness, awakening, enlightenment, oneness with God, etc.?
Has mankind been duped into believing He can attain a higher state of being without Christ as His redeemer?
Originally posted by racegunz
No, it is not all love, sorry but Jesus said he and He alone is the Way Truth and the Light, no one comes before the Father but through him. You can only reject his words or accept them, there's no middle ground. No matter how hard you try to convince me it doesn't matter, you will need to convince the Most High who has put the world as Jesus's foot stool, so get on your knees and try your philosphy with him. as for me I put my trust in Jesus.
That is an incredibly simplified and incorrect reason that Christians exist. Christians exist because Jesus Christ gave up his life for them, not because of a book. If this 'book with horrible things in it' is a reference to the Bible you are also mistaken. That 'book' contains incredible and beautiful things also with hell only being a small part of it. I'm all for equality and freedom of thought here on ATS but when you attack my faith just because you don't agree with it... then I'm going to say something. I'm sorry brother, but your post and thoughts would have been best left unsaid or at the very least been factual and correct.
Originally posted by cancerian42
Originally posted by 5thElement
Those who sacrifice their freedom of thought for a safety of "eternal" life are the ones who are actually fallen
That is what I have always thought too. The only reason christians (and any kind of religious followers) exist is because they fear that a book with horrible things in it involving them, might actually come true.
Originally posted by noonebutme
Originally posted by John Matrix
Are we in a fallen state as the Bible says? If not, then why do we seek a higher state of consciousness, awakening, enlightenment, oneness with God, etc.?
It's just a fictional collection of stories used to explain the unexplainable as a means of controlling people. I certainly wouldn't take to heart the sillyness of the Bible.
And so by that account yes, we do NOT need him. It's in everyone's own ability to "redeem" themselves and to make their own lives better and to achieve a higher state of consciousness through experiences, living life and keeping your mind (especially the ego) in check.
Maybe *you* need this 'Christ' fellow to help you out but I sure don't.
[edit on 21-1-2009 by noonebutme]
Originally posted by Tallsorts
Originally posted by racegunz
No, it is not all love, sorry but Jesus said he and He alone is the Way Truth and the Light, no one comes before the Father but through him. You can only reject his words or accept them, there's no middle ground. No matter how hard you try to convince me it doesn't matter, you will need to convince the Most High who has put the world as Jesus's foot stool, so get on your knees and try your philosphy with him. as for me I put my trust in Jesus.
Actually, I don’t want to try and convince you of anything, especially as you have a particular belief which is important to you, and which you live your life by.
I won’t need to convince anyone, natural or supernatural, because God gave me free-will to search for Him, and I have found Him, but in a different way to you. I live my life by God’s Laws, and have love for all mankind. When this life is over, I will have to answer for my own thoughts, words and deeds, just the same as everyone on planet Earth.
I will also defend your right to believe in whatever you want to believe, whether or not it is within my understanding of spiritual philosophy, and whether or not you would extend the same honour to me.
Originally posted by ahnggk
Originally posted by John Matrix
Cows eat grass, but don't try to grow better more tasty grass.
Beavers still make dams from branches and mud and don't look for better materials like bricks.
All animal life seems to be pre programmed to do nothing more than what they can do by their nature, and never more.
Man is always striving and seeking more. More knowledge, more wisdom, enlightenment, etc.
Animals can show compassion, empathy, love, something that many humans don't demonstrate.
What we have called 'technology' isn't really a symbol of man's superior wisdom over animals. We simply developed a faster and more efficient way to ravage the planet.
Many of the things we learn to know as 'better' isn't really better in the long run.
Originally posted by Gears Of War
No
Mankind simply has a more powerful brain, we have developed more, we have reasoning and thought capabilities, we don't simply function on genetic survival thoughts as such.
You can't compare beavers and cows to humans...
Mankind gets bored, they invent, they think, have vivid imaginations and struggle with their own existence... they get scared so they create a savior to make themselves feel better...
[edit on 19-1-2009 by Gears Of War]
Originally posted by noonebutme
Christ? He was just a man, albeit a very charismatic man with "good ideas" and sensible attitudes and a general belief in people -- but he was *only* a man -- nothing more. He wasn't God or a Redeemer as you put it. He's just a man.
And so by that account yes, we do NOT need him. It's in everyone's own ability to "redeem" themselves and to make their own lives better and to achieve a higher state of consciousness through experiences, living life and keeping your mind (especially the ego) in check.
Maybe *you* need this 'Christ' fellow to help you out but I sure don't.
[edit on 21-1-2009 by noonebutme]
Originally posted by noonebutme
reply to post by Alienmojo
It wasn't nasty at all. However, I can be very nasty if you like ?