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Has Mankind been Duped into Rejecting The only Redeemer?

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posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 08:30 PM
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Originally posted by Wertdagf
reply to post by Ant4AU
 


There is no need for these things to be tied to a heaven or a hell... to a man on a cross or up in the clouds. These things are real and understandable... you dont need to spend your life worshiping someone else.... some person. You can have these understandings as your own for i have explained it. Just let the reader understand.


I can't speak for anyone but myself when I say that I do not worship a person. The image of Jesus on a Cross is an abomination to me because that was just his earthly vessel. He became the risen Christ, a Spirit being of the highest order, So my savior is the Living God, not a dead carcass.

Amen!

[edit on 20-1-2009 by John Matrix]




posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 08:33 PM
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Originally posted by godless

Originally posted by John Matrix
Are we in a fallen state as the Bible says? If not, then why do we seek a higher state of consciousness, awakening, enlightenment, oneness with God, etc.?

The animals do what they have always done and nothing more.

Mankind is different, always striving to attain some higher state than His present one.

Has mankind been duped into believing He can attain a higher state of being without Christ as His redeemer?

Why? Why? Why?


Was Moses schizophrenic? Was Jesus?


I would have to ask them to make an appointment so that I can make a diagnosis. Warning.....there is a long waiting list.



posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 08:35 PM
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Peace to all:

I would like to add little something here for thought, if that is alright


The common English usage, soul and spirit are without distinction of meaning, and after naming the corresponding words in Hebrew, Greek, and Latin. Dr. Hodge says, "these words all desgnate one and the same thing. They are constantly inter-changed" (Systematic Theology, Vo. 11, p. 48). That they are used interchangeably can be verified by comparing the texts where they occur. Contrary to the theory under consideration (PNEUMA) as well as (PSUCHE) is used of the animal creation (Eccles. 3:21, LXX). Also (PSUCHE) is ascribed to God, whe certianly does not have the nature of the animal. The disemodied spirits of the dead are called (PSUCHE), or souls (Rev. 6:29). It is the soul that sins (Lev.4:2), and God commands to love the Lord "with all thy soul" (Luke 10:27). It is the highest part in man and to him are referred the highest exercises of religion. It is the soul that is lost through sin "What shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?" (Mark 8:35) The soul, then, is not the mere animal life of the body, but which may be lost after the body is dead.

Although the terms "soul" and "spirit" do not represent distinct substances of human nature, the have value (like "heart" and "mind") in representing the higher spiritual nature in its different powers and faculties of man's psychic nature.

It is evident that man is superior to the animal. All must admit this. The superiority is such that he cannot have been evolved from the animal. Man is superior because he is created in God's image. The popular theory that man has reason and the animals have instinct is not a satisfactory distinction, for animals have a certian amount of reason and man is not entirely without instinct.

I believe that God creates out of nothing each individual soul when its body is formed, either at conception or at birth. "The spirit shall return unto God who gave it" (Essles. 12:7). God is said to form "the spirit of man within him" (Zech. 12:1) "Before, I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations."

Now how cool is that


This is WHY we have this desire to seek and search for faith, knowledge, consciousness, and enlightenment. BEFORE, I FORMED YOU in the womb I KNEW YOU, before you were born I SET YOU APART.........*our creator set us apart in the womb*.......this is the spark or the good seed, whatever you want to call it.....God put a part of himself into us. That is why we search.

I know some on here do not understand this kind of communion with the Father.......that's OK, maybe it is not time for you to find that path yet. But I can truly say that I have and it is indeed the greatest journey I have ever embarked. It is a journey of a lifetime!

I could go on and on about all the wonders the Lord has shown me in my alone time with him. With the help of the Holy Spirit my spirit becomes one with his. It is a most humbling experience to come before the throne. This time can also be a time where the love is so deep and wide, you just can't wrap your head around it. He has surely put a song in my heart and brings joy to my life.

Have I been duped? Well, some of you think so......that's alright. If I am duped.....then it is certainly the most beautiful reality that I experience.


Peace to all,
Grandma



posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 01:13 AM
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Originally posted by John Matrix

Cows eat grass, but don't try to grow better more tasty grass.
Beavers still make dams from branches and mud and don't look for better materials like bricks.
All animal life seems to be pre programmed to do nothing more than what they can do by their nature, and never more.

Man is always striving and seeking more. More knowledge, more wisdom, enlightenment, etc.


Animals can show compassion, empathy, love, something that many humans don't demonstrate.

What we have called 'technology' isn't really a symbol of man's superior wisdom over animals. We simply developed a faster and more efficient way to ravage the planet.

Many of the things we learn to know as 'better' isn't really better in the long run.



posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 01:34 AM
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Any religion that makes the claim that they are the only route to salvation is only a tool that divides us.



posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 03:01 AM
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In layman's terms in regards to the supposed fall.

God says let us create man in our own image, whomever
he was talking to is debatable but, he creates man
in his own image, a copy of God.

Later, he pulls a rib out of man and it turns into a
naked female.

Tells them to replenish the earth...What was there before?

Shows them two magic trees, a tree of knowledge and a tree of
eternal life. They can live forever but, they must not have
knowledge. He says, "Don't eat of that tree of knowledge it is
bad stuff!" "It makes you smart but, that is bad!"

Well Eve speaks to a reptile that tells her this fruit is very
good. She eats the fruit and freaks out now that she is no longer
stupid and that she is in fact naked, she screams realizing that a reptile is talking! She pleads with Adam to eat it too and he does. They freak out seeing each other naked fully overcoming their stupidity. They hide in the bushes and try to come up with some clothing from the underbrush.

God comes walking into the Garden, looks around for his favorite naked play things but, cannot find them. He calls out and they come out of hiding trying
to cover their nakedness. God says, "Are you two playing hide and seek again? " Gasp! Oh my God! You know you are naked!"
So he curses them and throws them from the Garden because he wanted
them to remain stupid. Oh I forgot he puts a curse on the reptile
too making it into a snake.

He instructs a helper Angel to keep men away from the forever magic tree.
No guards on the tree of knowledge though!


Moral of the story: Man in his own image was created as flawed
as God. He expected his children to know good from evil but,
without eating from the magic tree they wouldn't know they were
doing evil. Well not until they actually ate the smart fruit as they
were pretty much retarded

With proof being that they pranced around naked in a garden
with God ogling but, didn't realize it.


Now where did they put that unprotected tree of knowledge?
I want a cutting and grow my own smart magic fruit!




[edit on 21/1/2009 by toochaos4u]



posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 03:15 AM
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Originally posted by John Matrix
Are we in a fallen state as the Bible says? If not, then why do we seek a higher state of consciousness, awakening, enlightenment, oneness with God, etc.?

The animals do what they have always done and nothing more.

Mankind is different, always striving to attain some higher state than His present one.

Has mankind been duped into believing He can attain a higher state of being without Christ as His redeemer?

Why? Why? Why?


Animals i do not believe are pre programmed to do what they do. They are one with nature. They have not lost their sixth sense, humans have.
I have gone back to eating with how nature intended us to eat. I say intended instead of pre programmed. I eat the raw food diet and upon eating what is natural to the body i have enquired such wisdom that i cannot put into words. I tend to understand in my mind what animals do to intend to nature and keep the earth moving. If it was not for the animals having their part ot play in nature then earth would not thrive.
The same as with humans having shorter lives due to cancer and other diseases regardless of science telling us we live longer due to cleanliness but have a rise in diseases and not thriving to our potential.
When you pet eats the same food you do they get ill just like humans. But when they eat how they were intended to eat they thrive. They ar eintune with nature and use their sixth sense. Sometthing all humans have lost.

As for trying to attain alignment or wisdom or higher understanding does not mean people reject Jesus. Funnily he is still mentioned through the movement. I think the movement pertains to wisdom behind Jesus teaching especially with regards to the esoteric parts left out of the bible such as the essene teachings and other teachings left out about reincarnation etc. So all we are left with is the minute comical parts whilst those that pull on our heart strings are left out to keep us in a closed mind to not seek more about life and experience life as it should be experienced.



posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 03:58 AM
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Originally posted by cancerian42
Actually not all of mankind is striving to achieve a higher state. Some people feel that they are missing something, so they look outward for some solution to their "problems". Other people are just living in the moment, happy to be alive.



Yeah and the others look for a solution in a bottle or through the needle. Other people also use things as money or sex as a God. I still haven't seen Your point btw because everyone is like this.....



posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 04:33 AM
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reply to post by Maxmars
 


It is the Catholic Church that is the problem.

Rev 17:1-COME HITHER; I WILL SHEW UNTO THEE THE JUDGMENT (or punishment) OF THE GREAT WHORE (or prostitute) THAT SITTETH UPON MANY WATERS:
17:15-THE WATERS...WHERE THE WHORE (or prostitute) SITTETH, ARE PEOPLES, AND MULTITUDES, AND NATIONS, AND TONGUES (or languages).
17:2-WITH WHOM THE KINGS OF THE EARTH HAVE COMMITTED FORNICATION (or adultery), AND THE INHABITANTS OF THE EARTH HAVE BEEN MADE DRUNK (or intoxicated) WITH THE WINE OF HER FORNICATION, (of the whore’s fornication).
18:3-FOR ALL NATIONS HAVE DRUNK OF THE WINE (or maddening wine) OF THE WRATH OF HER FORNICATION (the whore’s fornication), AND THE KINGS OF THE EARTH HAVE COMMITTED FORNICATION WITH HER, AND THE MERCHANTS OF THE EARTH ARE WAXED RICH (or grew rich) THROUGH THE ABUNDANCE OF HER DELICACIES (or from her excessive luxuries).

7:3-SO HE CARRIED ME AWAY IN THE SPIRIT INTO THE WILDERNESS: AND I SAW A WOMAN SIT UPON A SCARLET COLOURED BEAST, FULL OF NAMES OF BLASPHEMY (or covered with blasphemous names), HAVING SEVEN HEADS AND TEN HORNS.
17:18-AND THE WOMAN WHICH THOU SAWEST IS THAT GREAT CITY, WHICH REIGNETH OVER THE KINGS OF THE EARTH.
17:9-AND HERE IS THE MIND WHICH HATH WISDOM. THE SEVEN HEADS ARE SEVEN MOUNTAINS, ON WHICH THE WOMAN SITTETH.
17:4-AND THE WOMAN WAS ARRAYED (or dressed) IN PURPLE AND SCARLET COLOUR, AND DECKED (or was glittering) WITH GOLD AND PRECIOUS STONES AND PEARLS, HAVING A GOLDEN CUP IN HER HAND FULL OF ABOMINATIONS (or filled with abominable things) AND FILTHINESS OF HER FORNICATION (or the filth of her adulteries).
18:16-ALAS, ALAS, THAT GREAT CITY, THAT WAS CLOTHED IN FINE LINEN, AND PURPLE, AND SCARLET, AND DECKED WITH GOLD, AND PRECIOUS STONES, AND PEARLS!
17:5-AND UPON HER FOREHEAD WAS A NAME WRITTEN (or this title was written on her forehead-NIV), MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND (of the) ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
17:6-AND I SAW THE WOMAN DRUNKEN WITH THE BLOOD OF THE SAINTS, AND WITH THE BLOOD OF THE MARTYRS OF JESUS (or with the blood of those who bore testimony to Jesus-NIV): AND WHEN I SAW HER, I WONDERED WITH GREAT ADMIRATION (or I was greatly astonished).
18:4-AND I HEARD ANOTHER VOICE FROM HEAVEN, SAYING, COME OUT OF HER, MY PEOPLE, THAT YE BE NOT PARTAKERS (or share) OF HER SINS, AND THAT YE RECEIVE NOT OF HER PLAGUES.
18:5-FOR HER SINS HAVE REACHED (or are piled up) UNTO HEAVEN, AND GOD HATH REMEMBERED HER INIQUITIES (or crimes).
18:7-HOW MUCH SHE HATH GLORIFIED HERSELF, AND LIVED DELICIOUSLY(as the glory and luxury she gave herself), SO MUCH TORMENT AND SORROW (or torture and grief-NIV): GIVE HER: FOR SHE SAITH IN HER HEART, I SIT A QUEEN, AND AM NO WIDOW, AND SHALL SEE NO SORROW.
18:17-FOR IN ONE HOUR SO GREAT RICHES (or wealth) IS COME TO NOUGHT (or has been brought to ruin). AND EVERY SHIPMASTER, AND ALL THE COMPANY IN SHIPS, AND SAILORS, AND AS MANY AS TRADE BY SEA (or all who earn their living from the sea), STOOD AFAR OFF.
18:19-AND THEY CAST DUST ON THEIR HEADS, AND CRIED, WEEPING AND WAILING, SAYING, ALAS, ALAS, THAT GREAT CITY, WHEREIN WERE MADE RICH ALL THAT HAD SHIPS IN THE SEA BY REASON OF HER COSTLINESS! FOR IN ONE HOUR IS SHE MADE DESOLATE.
18:20-REJOICE OVER HER, THOU HEAVEN, AND YE (saints and) HOLY APOSTLES AND PROPHETS; FOR GOD HATH AVENGED YOU ON HER (God has judged her for the way she treated you-NIV).
18:23-FOR BY THY SORCERIES WERE ALL NATIONS DECEIVED.
18:24-AND IN HER WAS FOUND THE BLOOD OF PROPHETS, AND OF SAINTS, AND OF ALL THAT WERE SLAIN (or killed) UPON THE EARTH.
19:2-FOR TRUE AND RIGHTEOUS ARE HIS JUDGMENTS: FOR HE HATH JUDGED THE GREAT WHORE, WHICH DID CORRUPT THE EARTH WITH HER FORNICATION, AND HATH AVENGED THE BLOOD OF HIS



posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 04:33 AM
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Originally posted by John Matrix
Are we in a fallen state as the Bible says? If not, then why do we seek a higher state of consciousness, awakening, enlightenment, oneness with God, etc.?


Well, keep in mind the Bible isn't "real" in the sense that the Earth was created a few years ago (compared to the billions it's estimated at) and that humans did not come from Adam and Eve, etc.

It's just a fictional collection of stories used to explain the unexplainable as a means of controlling people. I certainly wouldn't take to heart the sillyness of the Bible.



Has mankind been duped into believing He can attain a higher state of being without Christ as His redeemer?


Christ? He was just a man, albeit a very charismatic man with "good ideas" and sensible attitudes and a general belief in people -- but he was *only* a man -- nothing more. He wasn't God or a Redeemer as you put it. He's just a man.

And so by that account yes, we do NOT need him. It's in everyone's own ability to "redeem" themselves and to make their own lives better and to achieve a higher state of consciousness through experiences, living life and keeping your mind (especially the ego) in check.

Maybe *you* need this 'Christ' fellow to help you out but I sure don't.

[edit on 21-1-2009 by noonebutme]



posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 05:35 AM
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Originally posted by racegunz
No, it is not all love, sorry but Jesus said he and He alone is the Way Truth and the Light, no one comes before the Father but through him. You can only reject his words or accept them, there's no middle ground. No matter how hard you try to convince me it doesn't matter, you will need to convince the Most High who has put the world as Jesus's foot stool, so get on your knees and try your philosphy with him. as for me I put my trust in Jesus.


Actually, I don’t want to try and convince you of anything, especially as you have a particular belief which is important to you, and which you live your life by.

I won’t need to convince anyone, natural or supernatural, because God gave me free-will to search for Him, and I have found Him, but in a different way to you. I live my life by God’s Laws, and have love for all mankind. When this life is over, I will have to answer for my own thoughts, words and deeds, just the same as everyone on planet Earth.

I will also defend your right to believe in whatever you want to believe, whether or not it is within my understanding of spiritual philosophy, and whether or not you would extend the same honour to me.



posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 05:44 AM
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Originally posted by cancerian42

Originally posted by 5thElement
Those who sacrifice their freedom of thought for a safety of "eternal" life are the ones who are actually fallen

That is what I have always thought too. The only reason christians (and any kind of religious followers) exist is because they fear that a book with horrible things in it involving them, might actually come true.
That is an incredibly simplified and incorrect reason that Christians exist. Christians exist because Jesus Christ gave up his life for them, not because of a book. If this 'book with horrible things in it' is a reference to the Bible you are also mistaken. That 'book' contains incredible and beautiful things also with hell only being a small part of it. I'm all for equality and freedom of thought here on ATS but when you attack my faith just because you don't agree with it... then I'm going to say something. I'm sorry brother, but your post and thoughts would have been best left unsaid or at the very least been factual and correct.

[edit on 21-1-2009 by Alienmojo]



posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 05:56 AM
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Originally posted by noonebutme

Originally posted by John Matrix
Are we in a fallen state as the Bible says? If not, then why do we seek a higher state of consciousness, awakening, enlightenment, oneness with God, etc.?


It's just a fictional collection of stories used to explain the unexplainable as a means of controlling people. I certainly wouldn't take to heart the sillyness of the Bible.

And so by that account yes, we do NOT need him. It's in everyone's own ability to "redeem" themselves and to make their own lives better and to achieve a higher state of consciousness through experiences, living life and keeping your mind (especially the ego) in check.

Maybe *you* need this 'Christ' fellow to help you out but I sure don't.

[edit on 21-1-2009 by noonebutme]

Believe what you like brother, but understand this: just because you or I believe something doesn't necessarily make it true. What is in your heart is where the truth is. Many of us truly believe the Bible. However, one area where you are incorrect is in stating the bible is silly or fictional. Every year scientists discover places and people who were mentioned in the bible that were thought to not exist. www.scribd.com...
You may not need Jesus and that's great for you. Some of us do. Just because you have something against religion is no reason to be so nasty in your posts to feel the need to call it silly. It isn't silly to us.
I'll say this much... maybe YOU do need Christ more than you think. He taught us to be brothers and love each other, yet here on a forum of supposebly like-thinkers you mock them. If this is how you 'redeem' yourself I must say I think you are on the wrong path.



posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 06:02 AM
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Originally posted by Tallsorts

Originally posted by racegunz
No, it is not all love, sorry but Jesus said he and He alone is the Way Truth and the Light, no one comes before the Father but through him. You can only reject his words or accept them, there's no middle ground. No matter how hard you try to convince me it doesn't matter, you will need to convince the Most High who has put the world as Jesus's foot stool, so get on your knees and try your philosphy with him. as for me I put my trust in Jesus.


Actually, I don’t want to try and convince you of anything, especially as you have a particular belief which is important to you, and which you live your life by.

I won’t need to convince anyone, natural or supernatural, because God gave me free-will to search for Him, and I have found Him, but in a different way to you. I live my life by God’s Laws, and have love for all mankind. When this life is over, I will have to answer for my own thoughts, words and deeds, just the same as everyone on planet Earth.

I will also defend your right to believe in whatever you want to believe, whether or not it is within my understanding of spiritual philosophy, and whether or not you would extend the same honour to me.

Hey Tallsorts, just wanted to leave a note stating that you wrote a wonderful post and I hope you are applauded for it. For though you may believe different things you were able to express that to the other person without mocking or attacking him like so many others have.
Kudos to you my friend and God bless you (hey... it can't hurt right?)



posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 07:54 AM
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Originally posted by ahnggk

Originally posted by John Matrix

Cows eat grass, but don't try to grow better more tasty grass.
Beavers still make dams from branches and mud and don't look for better materials like bricks.
All animal life seems to be pre programmed to do nothing more than what they can do by their nature, and never more.

Man is always striving and seeking more. More knowledge, more wisdom, enlightenment, etc.


Animals can show compassion, empathy, love, something that many humans don't demonstrate.

What we have called 'technology' isn't really a symbol of man's superior wisdom over animals. We simply developed a faster and more efficient way to ravage the planet.

Many of the things we learn to know as 'better' isn't really better in the long run.


I agree. The animal behavior is evidence that mankind is in a fallen state.

Man invents something to make life easier, and creates an enviromental disaster with a hundred more problems.



posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 08:00 AM
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Originally posted by Gears Of War
No

Mankind simply has a more powerful brain, we have developed more, we have reasoning and thought capabilities, we don't simply function on genetic survival thoughts as such.


You can't compare beavers and cows to humans...

Mankind gets bored, they invent, they think, have vivid imaginations and struggle with their own existence... they get scared so they create a savior to make themselves feel better...

[edit on 19-1-2009 by Gears Of War]


The savior is completely true and real and applies to any living being that bares young, as the young...ARE the saviors.

We have nature, not science, as a witness to truth. Science, while it is supposed to be observable is in actuality not observed, but projected...just like Christianity. It shouldn't ever be shouted out or preached, but lived, with no mention of a name, only the one you have been called under for it is God calling His name over you....Your Surname....The "Gospel".

True Christians never even knew they were christian or anything else for that matter. "I came to those who did not know me"...is what God says, yet Jesus says, "My sheep know my voice. They will not follow another..."

Names for you to know:
Jesus means "Self-existent salvation"
Lucifer/Hillel "Light Barer/Exalted"
Satan means "Adversary" and can apply to anyone opposed to anything.
Pharisee means "Religious separatist"
God is a form of Gad and Means "Good Luck"...Don't use the word God...It blasphemes your Good Name.
Joseph means "let him add"
Mary means "Egypt"
Judas means Celebrated
Iscariot Means T



posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 08:21 AM
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reply to post by Alienmojo
 


It wasn't nasty at all. However, I can be very nasty if you like ?


But you made fair points -- yet I still cannot understand why some people of seemingly weak moral fibre must cling to these outdated, religious dogmatic texts as though they can provide salvation.

When people claim that Jesus has saved them, or they've been touched by God or deity X has helped/aided/saved them from whatever the issue -- it makes me question why that person wasn't able to do it themselves? Because at the end of the day, no paranormal entity help you "find your keys" or "cure your cancer" or "saved little Timmy from down the well". You found your keys because you investigated and used deduction to trace your steps. Your cancer was cured because your body defeated it, which is not unheard of. Little Timmy was saved cos the Littlest Hobo heard his cries and got Sherrif Podunk to rescue him.

Why do people feel the need to diminsih their own greatness and innate abilities as a human being by claiming it was some form of deity that resolved the issue? Why are these unexplainable events considered miracles or acts of God? Just because we don't understand them doesn't mean they are Godly.

This is one of the annoyances I have with religion - it's very disempowering of the human spirit.

But if you need it then that's fine and I certainly won't be the one to tell you you can't have it.

As for science proving the Bible.. that's subjective. Sure you can prove locations and events -- that's not the bits of the Bible that people think about when wanting proof. It's the ridiculous ideas of a tower to the heavens which upset the very childish God who cast them down and made them all speak different languages. Or a big boat that contained a pair of *every* animal on earth. Or that we just "popped" into being and didn't evolve over millions and millions of years.

Very silly!



posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 09:45 AM
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Originally posted by noonebutme
Christ? He was just a man, albeit a very charismatic man with "good ideas" and sensible attitudes and a general belief in people -- but he was *only* a man -- nothing more. He wasn't God or a Redeemer as you put it. He's just a man.

And so by that account yes, we do NOT need him. It's in everyone's own ability to "redeem" themselves and to make their own lives better and to achieve a higher state of consciousness through experiences, living life and keeping your mind (especially the ego) in check.

Maybe *you* need this 'Christ' fellow to help you out but I sure don't.

[edit on 21-1-2009 by noonebutme]


I can't disprove your view of what happend long ago or prove the existance of things unseen.

But you cannot disprove that Jesus is now the Christ, Son of God, Redeemer, Emmanuel, Savior, The One who was, came, ascended and is to come Again as a Lion, King of Kings, Lord of Lords and to establish His Kingdom on Earth.

If you do not see the evidence that Mankind is in a fallen state, then mankind's search for a higher state is a result of an incurable delusion. But from where comes this delusion?

It makes more sense to see this innate or inherent inclination toward attaining some higher state as emanating from an awareness that some part of Him is missing; a Spirit Nature that he possessed before the Fall.
Call it what you want, but it is something He had, and He is striving to re-gain it.




[edit on 21-1-2009 by John Matrix]



posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 10:41 AM
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Originally posted by noonebutme
reply to post by Alienmojo
 


It wasn't nasty at all. However, I can be very nasty if you like ?




No, please! Let's not attack. Let's make this a respectful search for common ground. The ideas and questions I started with transcend religious dogma and mind control.

I see mankind, as from birth into this world, is in a fallen state, because to me, the innate striving of mankind to reach a higher state is evidence that he was once much more than he is. Mankind is incurabley obsessed with the eternal realm, the supernatural, life after death, transcendance, enlightenment, illumination, being One with the Divine, etc.

So it only makes sense that an eternal, supernatural element in Man was Lost, and only an eternal supernatural redeemer is required to set mankind back on course, and prepare us for life in eternity.

So why couldn't that redeemer be Christ, the Son of God?
Forget attacking religion. Forget attacking the Bible?

What is wrong with: Love your neighbor as yourself ; Love God ; do unto others as you would have them do unto you; Forgiveness; Humility; Patience; Meekness; Kindness; generousity; selflessness and placing One's Faith in Christ who empowers your life with all of those things and more?

And isn't all of the above what Christ is and seeks to establish in us through the Spirit of God working with Christ and God in, with, and through our reborn Spirit which was Lost at the Fall? Surly no one can see any worldly religiousity, mind control, or harm in following this Christ, who is not a mere image of a man, but is the very Divine Nature of God that we are made partakers of?

Now Look at what those things which constitute Christ are in oposition to: Selfish wanting, hoarding, striving for self, seeking self exaltation, pride, stubborness, prejudices, hate, murders, fits of rage, cheating, stealing, drunken brawls, etc.

There is your two eternities set before you. Nature, or God manifested in Nature.

Forget all your former notions and opinions. Choose your path to the eternity of your choice.


[edit on 21-1-2009 by John Matrix]



posted on Jan, 21 2009 @ 10:45 AM
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reply to post by John Matrix
 


If i couldnt explain to you everything that jesus taught with logic. Then i would expect you to still lean on some ignorance in a book. You dont need a heaven or a hell to love and understand your brother... and if you do .. then you are already in hell.



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