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Has Mankind been Duped into Rejecting The only Redeemer?

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posted on Jan, 22 2009 @ 11:40 PM
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Well, Christ must increase in my Spirit,
and the old Self must decrease in my soul.

Good night all.




posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 12:01 AM
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reply to post by John Matrix
 

I don't understand how someone can say their "old" spirit has died. The way I see it our spirits only grow and change forms, the "old" is still here, it is not dead, but it is not the exact same as it once was. This is just like say a mother dies and her child is wondering where its mom is, but it's mom is gone, she is not there any longer. But say the mother changed something about her, the child understands that it is still the same mother and doesn't say that it is a new mother. When you say rebirth of the spirit, this would mean every time we had an epiphany of some sort, our spirit would have to die and be reborn new, a completely different spirit. I do not understand how that can be.



posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 12:02 AM
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reply to post by John Matrix
 

What is Christ?



posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 12:49 AM
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reply to post by cancerian42
 


Think with for a bit about the situation of a son who watches his father die of a heart attack at 50... before the child never though tthat such a thing could happen... with this experiance your whole life can change. You may then see that a stricter diet and a lack of smoking can save those who love you a vast amount of pain. In this true understanding your motives.... change... this knowledge has changed you.

Some of these realizations are larger than others... they all change us in some amount.

Also realize that we are talking about a term tossed around in the circle jerk that is religion... "spirit". Maybe you have an ignorant defninition of spirit?



posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 07:24 AM
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reply to post by Wertdagf
 

ignorant definition of spirit? please enlighten my mind as to what you would call the spirit.



posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 07:44 AM
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Originally posted by cancerian42
reply to post by John Matrix
 

I don't understand how someone can say their "old" spirit has died.

When you say rebirth of the spirit, this would mean every time we had an epiphany of some sort, our spirit would have to die and be reborn new, a completely different spirit.


There are many ways to describe what was lost in us at the Fall. Some say it's a God shaped vacuum, some say seed, some say spark of eternity, etc. Whatever condition the Spirit we were originally created with was in, it was effected by the Fall.

Wertangf referred to epiphany. I would call it moments of enlightenment as a result of the renewed life of the Spirit. Both are ways of describing life changing realizations.

[edit on 23-1-2009 by John Matrix]



posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 07:54 AM
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Originally posted by cancerian42
reply to post by Wertdagf
 

ignorant definition of spirit? please enlighten my mind as to what you would call the spirit.


Spirit is the eternal essence from God that is within us, through which God communicates and works in, on, and through our soul.

There are many Spirits that are at enmity to God's Spirit, but the reborn Spirit in us works only with God's Spirit. Evil Spirits work in our Souls when we turn our wills to live by the Spirit of this World instead of the Spirit of God. A Spirit works as an inner desire and seeks to manifest the results of that desire in the outer world through the Soul.

[edit on 23-1-2009 by John Matrix]



posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 09:40 AM
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Not trying to be difficult or insulting (I hope), but for the religious amongst you -- if you replaced the word 'God' with 'Life' -- would that be any different to you?

The reason I ask is, I feel like I want to agree with many of your statements or sentiments in the posts about -- but the atheist that I am tunes out when I see the word 'God' because of what it implies to me.

When I see the word 'God' or references to it, it means negativity for me -- it means something that is sentient, biased, judgemental, retributive (maybe not a word), punishing, illogical, spiteful, conditional, insecure. But using the term 'Life' or 'Energy' means unbiased, non-judgmental and impartial and eternal an no matter who you are, or what you may or may not believe, you're part of it and it's part of you.

I'm just curious. Again, no insulting or personal attacks meant.



posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 10:01 AM
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reply to post by noonebutme
 


That would be fine by me for I feel the title as God has become too polluted.

The idea of 'god' being a forceful almighty described in the OT is not what I feel is the 'life' or 'energy' in all things.

LV



posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 10:52 AM
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Originally posted by noonebutme
Not trying to be difficult or insulting (I hope), but for the religious amongst you -- if you replaced the word 'God' with 'Life' -- would that be any different to you?

The reason I ask is, I feel like I want to agree with many of your statements or sentiments in the posts about -- but the atheist that I am tunes out when I see the word 'God' because of what it implies to me.

When I see the word 'God' or references to it, it means negativity for me -- it means something that is sentient, biased, judgemental, retributive (maybe not a word), punishing, illogical, spiteful, conditional, insecure. But using the term 'Life' or 'Energy' means unbiased, non-judgmental and impartial and eternal an no matter who you are, or what you may or may not believe, you're part of it and it's part of you.

I'm just curious. Again, no insulting or personal attacks meant.


How about God = Spirit of Love which is an immutable eternal will to goodness and blessings toward the creature?

I prefer Spirit of Love, or the great Divine, the Divine Creator, Divine Light, Supreme Creator, etc.


[edit on 23-1-2009 by John Matrix]



posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 11:51 AM
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reply to post by noonebutme
 


Great post. This is exactly how I feel when someone mentions God to me. I grew up in a somewhat Westboro Baptist and the name GOD sends shivers down my spine as if bringing up trauma from being beaten.



posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 12:02 PM
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reply to post by noonebutme
 


I think that GOD is causality... I dont like to use the word because theres just to many confused people who think its a divine being on a cloud granting wishes.

My logical definition of spirit is your motivation.

Somone with a motivation towards life of wanting to understand reality no matter what it ends up being.. is somone who will find it. Well thats really the "holy spirit"..... somone with a pure motivation towards understanding is one with a "holy spirit". Pure/holy Motivation/spirit this can be towards anything, usualy used in referance to somone motivation towards life.



posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 04:07 PM
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Originally posted by Wertdagf
reply to post by noonebutme
 


I think that GOD is causality... I dont like to use the word because theres just to many confused people who think its a divine being on a cloud granting wishes.

My logical definition of spirit is your motivation.

Somone with a motivation towards life of wanting to understand reality no matter what it ends up being.. is somone who will find it. Well thats really the "holy spirit"..... somone with a pure motivation towards understanding is one with a "holy spirit". Pure/holy Motivation/spirit this can be towards anything, usualy used in referance to somone motivation towards life.


Interesting. We seem to have more in common that what appears on the surface.



posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 04:17 PM
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reply to post by noonebutme
 


You must have had a Hellfire and brimstone preacher. They use the scare tactic and live out of the Old Testament in their sermons. It works for some but unfortunately it turns more away and like you said brings a negative nature to the name. I do not understand why the different sects of Christianity the believe that Jesus was sacrificed for our sins use the hellfire and brimstone sermons. The sacrifice actually brought about a new era in religion.



posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 04:43 PM
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reply to post by John Matrix
 


My logic is undeniable. GOD is an equation.. not a man or a woman.. he doesnt anwser your prayers... GOD is the design of the division of infinty it is Physics.. it is Science..

This was told to some ignorant desert people a long time ago... and now we have all of these crazy religions.



posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 05:14 PM
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Everything is God. God is the creator and the created. He/She/It is the cause and the effect, which in eternity are the same. God is love, but It is also fear. God is the light, but It is also the darkness. God is the highest of the high and the lowest of the low. God is you and me. God is life and death. God is suffering and happiness.



posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 05:20 PM
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reply to post by cancerian42
 


I agree. Although we may disagree on free will. i dont believe it exists.

"The secret" is for ignorant people.



posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 05:38 PM
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reply to post by Wertdagf
 

Actually, I believe that we don't have free will also. Everything we do is cause and effect, every choice we make is based off of probability and possibility. The rollercoaster of life is not the will of a part of life(i.e. us), but it is the will of God as I defined It above. And it is not bad or anything, it doesn't mean we are doomed to be like robots, it just means that everything goes according to plan. Or maybe we are both wrong and chaos rules everything, nothing is safe, everything appears and disappears at random with no cause and no effect, but I seriously doubt that.



posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 06:28 PM
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reply to post by cancerian42
 


Well if GOD was a 3d fractal then our entire reality repeats the desgin infinitly high and infinitly low. although i do believe in determinism i dont think life is a "planned" part of the fractal, but just another aspect of the fractal at every resolution. Even if life does create itself and evolve naturaly throughout the fractal that wouldnt mean that we still were not geneticly engineered by an older race.



posted on Jan, 23 2009 @ 08:04 PM
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Originally posted by Ant4AU
reply to post by noonebutme
 


You must have had a Hellfire and brimstone preacher. They use the scare tactic and live out of the Old Testament in their sermons. It works for some but unfortunately it turns more away and like you said brings a negative nature to the name. I do not understand why the different sects of Christianity the believe that Jesus was sacrificed for our sins use the hellfire and brimstone sermons. The sacrifice actually brought about a new era in religion.


The fire and brimstone sermons appeal to morbid curiosity, are therefore entertaining for some, and brings in the almighty bucks.




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