WORLD: Fanatical Muslims vs. The Free World

Originally posted by karl 12
reply to post by Majorion

 

Theres a few interesting links here about the highly bigoted and prejudiced wahhabi islamic mindset and the actions of the Saudi Arabian 'relgious police':
www.belowtopsecret.com...
Is it all just media hype?

It's true, but they are in much lesser numbers and have much less power than a long time ago. It strongly depends on which city you're in... in the capital 'Riyadh' there are still a number of them bigoted idiots. But where I live is the most liberal city in SA which is Jeddah right next to the red sea.. I know many Americans and other foreigners who love it here(to an extent)... there are certain freedoms in the U.S and certain other types of freedoms in SA.

You'd have to see Saudi for yourself to able to judge it. All in all I can assure you that it's not as half as bad as the MSM make it out to be

Majorion

reply to post by VinceP1974


Heres some authenticated quotes that contradict that position.
(final post):
www.belowtopsecret.com...

Originally posted by Gools
I'm disappointed in a fellow staffer "taking sides" like this.

With all due respect, Gools, your objection to this thread being started by a staff member surprises me especially after your exchange in the thread Freedom Of Speech, ATS, and Ending the Eternal September and, in particular, your opinion expressed in THIS POST concerning mods being members as well and being able to express their opinions.

reply to post by Skyfloating


Interesting thread, Sky. It's a unique approach to allow only pictures to demonstrate a certain perspective while authoring a thread. The one image I didn't understand, however, is image 3 'Who defends Human Rights?' Can you explain what the colors represent? Thanks.

reply to post by AshleyD


Pink and Purple are the countries with the lowest human rights stats.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
reply to post by AshleyD

 

Pink and Purple are the countries with the lowest human rights stats.

isreal included.

Originally posted by VinceP1974
Maybe maybe not. I dont know how open they are with a Kufr in the audience.

Why don't you check. Then maybe you can understand who Muslims label as a "Kufr," rather than misleading the other poster.

You do know that in Islam Muslims are not to befriend Non-Muslims

You do know that you're twisting information? Muslims are not allowed to befriend Christians or Jews that are there to do them harm, and not form any "peace" between the parties.

,, so if you have Muslim mates, then they're already by definition out of adherance

It's statements like this that shows why you need to read the Quran to see why you're wrong.

but dont thinik your friend's attitudes going to make a bit of different to the Radicals. The Radicals have the full Islamic text as their justification.

Except that the radicals can't read the text. The poor villagers who are recruited into radical groups are illiterate. When they're either forced (at gunpoint or their family is placed at gunpoint), or they're tricked into joining (the recruiters will tell them that they're fighting to protect their family), they're taught to follow their recruiter's teachings. Those teachings are not from the Quran itself, but whatever the recruiter wants the person to do. Since the villager is unable to read the Quran for themselves, they believe what the recruiter tells them as being written in it.

Your friend's actions are not due to anything written in Islamic law, but from ignoring it.

Can you show us which laws they're "ignoring"?

so anyway.. be blind if you want. its your country. well.. it was.

He's not blind for seeing things for himself. How many Masjids or Mosques have you attended, or how many Muslims have you personally known?

Labeling this country as one race's/religion's goes to show how biased someone can be. Last I checked, everyone's anscestors or family here is an immigrant

reply to post by Skyfloating


Oh, so there is some sort of point or reason for the maps (the 3rd in paricular)!!

Thanks for that... only took 9 pages

Look, Muslims actually don't exist





See how pointless it may seem looking at a random map with no explanation at all?
You really could have thought this through a lot more huh?
Saved yourself all this grief.

[edit on 6/1/09 by blupblup]

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Pink and Purple are the countries with the lowest human rights stats.

"Human rights" defined by whos standards?

What one country see's as a human right, another sees as "evil," and vice versa ( for example, Europeans have enough humanity in them to treat gays and lesbians with respect, and yet here in the US, the government wont even let them adopt or marry.)



[edit on Tue Jan 6th 2009 by DJMessiah]

Originally posted by pieman

isreal included.

I know it is real but it also is rael.

Originally posted by VinceP1974
It only takes one side. Ask the people in the World Trade Center how many sides you need to obliterate them.

If there is only one side involved it is an attack, not a conflict, perhaps in the instance that you refer to impact would be a better description. Do you believe that 9/11 came out of nowhere, without warning, without events leading up to it? Do you think that those people just thought it might make a change to fly aeroplanes into buildings? I am not saying they are right, or that I agree with their actions, but I do not exactly think it was a surprise to some given US foreign policy.

Actually, I have right next to me a book that was written at least 400 years before an Arab did his Jihadist duty by conquering Bethlehem. And that book is full of stories about Jews in that very town.

Does it tell you how long the Jews that lived in Europe had been in Europe? The Jews that came in massive, culture changing numbers between the wars and thereafter, does it tell you how they impacted on those Jews already living, peaceably alongside the Arab peoples? One book does not make a good reference, try picking up one or two more and expanding your perspective. Many, many, many peoples attempted to take Bethlehem, some succeeded, some didn’t. Have you heard of the crusades? Did you know that following 9/11, George W Bush called for another?

A decision was made to create Israel. It was a decision that totally disregarded the opinions of all those people already living there, Jews, Muslims and Christians alike. I suggest that you read the Hussein-McMahon correspondence for further reference, or perhaps, T E Lawrence’s writings, or Harry St John Philby for a different perspective…there are a myriad of sources out there. But, you have a book, bless.

I've been there to , btw... It's clear which side actually gives a darn about the country and which side can't be bothered.

Did you get a badge? Very easy to judge isn’t it? It is amazing what you can do with a place when you have the money to invest in it.

No matter.. because the Muslim Palestinians are quite busy exterminating the Christian Palestinians... so pretty soon it will be incredibly hostile for any Non Muslim to go there. Not that you care. Whatever the Muslims do is a-ok with you. The Jewish / Christian culture of industry has no place in a Muslim dominated area.. you are correct.. unless one is self-sacrificing and doesn't mind paying the jizya.

I never said that either side was right. I disagree with both but I try at least to understand why, it makes no difference to me, not really, my child isn’t getting shot at from either side. I don’t like any form of fanaticism, it is all based upon ignorance, but nor do I assume radicalism based upon the misfortune of where some poor bugger is born. I don’t tar everyone with the same brush. I doubt very much that the Israeli people fully support the actions of their government, I am sure that most would like a peaceable solution to this conflict, and I believe the same of the Palestinians. A belligerant country does not necessarily have to be wholly composed of belligerants, that is merely an excuse used to carpet bomb with impunity in my opinion. When push comes to shove they are both killing children and I don’t think those children are doing too much to ask for that do you?

They weren't born that way. EXCELLENT insight! Wow.. where do you get your schooling I wish i could have been exposed to such clever insight.

I am glad you appreciated it. Thank you.

This is where the Extermism comes from

That may be where ‘extermism’ comes from, the source of extremism is far more complex I am afraid.

They have been doing this sort of jihadist education since the beginning of the Palestinian Authority. The Palestinians have no interest in peace. They are raising all their people to be Islamic killers.

And where do you come from dear? Because wherever it is seems to be doing an awfully good job of raising those who find justification for baby killers, no matter what side of the fence you sit. I personally see no need for any of it, but I see as long as there are people like you who support the status quo, who fail to understand that fanaticism has roots, and that the side that you support is right and all others wrong, the war profiteers will always be in business. Well done there son!

Please you bought their propaganda , which is quite pathetic, becuase they people aren't going to stop with Israel. Israel is the Little Satan. They're going after the Great Satan too.

Purleeeease, what propaganda exactly have I bought? Listen to yourself for just one minute. Perhaps you could show me what propaganda you think that I have seen. I do not agree with either side, I think Hamas should be rounded up and disarmed, and I think the Israelis should be dealt with likewise. I don’t believe there is any necessity for war, other than to those that make money from selling ammunition.

Every encroachment on their areas has been a direct result from their own barbarism and terrorism.

One word: Bollocks.

You do believe in cause and effect don't you?

Yes I do, and I understand the roots, you on the other hand do not, otherwise you would know that you are talking with vast ignorance of the history of the middle-east. Have you heard of the Hebron massacre? In fact let’s go back to way back when, what did the ‘christians’ do when they took the region in the Crusades, compare that to the enlightened approach of Saladin when he took occupation. The radicalism of the muslims, of the Arab tribes did not happen over night. As I previously stated, the intellectual heart of Islam was eradicated by the British forces, they had no leadership, that vacumn was filled by the Madrassa system, which is and was funded by the Saudis. Those Saudis who were put in the position of power by the British in conjunction with Standard Oil. Had the more elightened Husseini’s received the support they were promised after they fought the Arab Revolt for us (WW2 Allied nations), then we may be looking at a different world. Sadly I do not, as yet, possess the power to turn back time. But yeah, I can see the cause and effect, my memory is simply less short term than yours.

The Palestinians are the Islamic vanguard of Jihad to eliminate the Jews.

Again, one word, and yes it’s bollocks again. The Jews and the Muslims lived side by side in peace for centuries under the Ottoman’s. The Jews were taxed more highly which is part of the reason they were actually encouraged under the Ottoman’s. The problems only arose when the Jews, who had been in Europe since at least the 9th Century, started emigrating in large numbers to Palestine. One of the purposes of this immigration was to increase tensions and was supported by the Nazis, particularly Reinhard Heydrich (head of the RHSA) to destabilise the British in position of protectorate. The Arab tribes had no objection to Jews emigrating to Palestine, their only objection was to mass immigration that they felt would change the semitic culture (Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews are not semitic in case you are ignorant of that information). This is what in fact happened. The first problems arose when the Arabs attempted to tend to their olive groves, their source of livelihood, the means by which they fed and supported their families. It seems that no one had thought to inform these European settlers that while they could purchase land, they did not own the olive trees. The reaction of these European colonialists was to cut the trees down and massacre the local Arab populations. And so on and so forth.

You should take your own advice and actually listen to what these people say to one another. It's no secret. That is how I know what I know.

I think they are lying to you, or maybe you’re only listening to one side. Could they be biased by any chance? Wouldn’t that be a shocker!!!

Everything I've said is from reading about it from their mouths.

Perhaps you should read words in books and listen to the words that come out of people’s mouths instead, that may be where your confusion/ignorance of the region comes from. Or do you lip read, useful skill, though your accuracy may need looking into. The only reason I have slightly more sympathy for the Palestinians is because they are ignorant for the most part, they have limited access the education and information, the Israelis on the other hand have no such excuse.

By the way folks,

this is a thread critical of muslim extremism. Being critical is entirely valid and something different than anti-muslim hate speech as portrayed in a few other recent threads here....such as...

reply to post by jam321


You wonder why the refugees aren't moved. They aren't moved because Hamas needs their suffering to get sympathy from the world. There was an excellent article on this. See Natan Sharansky's piece titled How the U.N. Perpetuates the 'Refugee' Problem. I saw it in the Wall Street Journal. An excerpt: Palestinian children are dying today not because of Israeli brutality, but because their own leaders have chosen to use their children as human shields, and their pain as a battering ram against Western sensibilities.

I don't agree with every word in this piece, but it is worth everyone's time to hear another point of view.

Originally posted by VinceP1974

Originally posted by Cadbury

Originally posted by VinceP1974
You should watch Dispatches: Undercover Mosque.

Or I could actually go to a Mosque with any number of the Muslims I know?

Maybe maybe not. I dont know how open they are with a Kufr in the audience. You do know that in Islam Muslims are not to befriend Non-Muslims,, so if you have Muslim mates, then they're already by definition out of adherance, and that's great.. but dont thinik your friend's attitudes going to make a bit of different to the Radicals. The Radicals have the full Islamic text as their justification. Your friend's actions are not due to anything written in Islamic law, but from ignoring it.

so anyway.. be blind if you want. its your country. well.. it was.

Have to say all the muslims I have met have been friendly and polite

The trouble makers are small in numbers,and we only hear about their twisted views because the useless media gives them a platform to preach on by spreading their narrow minded rants.
There always going to be a few bad eggs out there,but please dont believe the rubbish going round that they are taking over this country!

You cant be taken seriously when you say silly things like that.

As for this topic,lol-I think this thread has showed me I am wasting valuable time reading pointless muslim bashing!Still amusing,I bet you lot here check in the closet and under the bed for those darn pesky Arabs every time you go to bed at night.

To the OP thanks for wasting my time!lol

Originally posted by TheWayISeeIt

Originally posted by centurion1211

At least we all know where you stand in this issue.

Oh, you do? Great! Could you please tell me as I am at a loss as to how I feel about this issue. I keep finding myself going back and forth on it.

Very much looking forward to your speedy reply!

TWISI

Maybe not speedy, but here is your reply.

The statement in your original post can only be regarded as either an example of anti-Semitism because it somehow matters to you whether the OP's parents are Jewish, or as I said, it was an attempt to bait other members into a confrontation. Your words were something like "add gas to the fire". Baiting is a T & C violation.

So, which is it? Anti-Semite, or baiting? Mods?

Sorry, but neither possible reason for your original post will reflect positively on you.

Originally posted by centurion1211


Maybe not speedy, but here is your reply.

The statement in your original post can only be regarded as either an example of anti-Semitism because it somehow matters to you whether the OP's parents are Jewish, or as I said, it was an attempt to bait other members into a confrontation. Your words were something like "add gas to the fire". Baiting is a T & C violation.

So, which is it? Anti-Semite, or baiting? Mods?

Sorry, but neither possible reason for your original post will reflect positively on you.

I would like to choose C) 'baiting Mods'. Skyfloating in particular

It seems to me that the substance of this thread is mostly about the substance, or lack thereof, of this thread. What was Sky's intent with the vagueries of his OP? Is he making a more oblique point than the one it seems he is obliquely making, etc.? (All of which is more interesting to me than the shame-on-you! No, shame-on-you! tit-for-tat that is also being bounced around here and everywhere else on ATS).

To that end I chose to look past the message and look to the messenger who I am pretty sure is not offended, as there is no reason to be.


That said, it would greatly appreciated if you would please direct your self-sanctioned Moral Authority elsewhere

I declare this thread done (for me at least). I dont enjoy beating up on my fellow human muslims, even if its necessary sometimes when they get all fanatic and sour. Peace.

[edit on 6-1-2009 by Skyfloating]

Originally posted by Skyfloating
By the way folks,

this is a thread critical of muslim extremism. Being critical is entirely valid and something different than anti-muslim hate speech as portrayed in a few other recent threads here....such as...

The Blame America for Everything Crowd cannot abide bt you criticizing Muslim extremism.. Because to do so would the mean that the Muslim war against American is due to factor other than Americas own fault.

Therefore, The Extremist Muslim is just a helpless automaton , unable to scumb to free will. totally without a choice... he reacts to the American intrustion on his primative culture and the resulting carnage can never be said to be his fault. it is Americas.

So when you rightfully call out the depravity of the death cult you open yourself up to be characterized having an even worse disposition than them.

Originally posted by VinceP1974

So when you rightfully call out the depravity of the death cult you open yourself up to be characterized having an even worse disposition than them.

Seriously.... the death cult?

Any religion that separates humans and looks to isolate other people/religions is bad... But that would be ALL RELIGION!!
Even the bible says to kill non-believers and those opposed to the work of god.


I'm sorry but your comment is just as misleading as the OP.
A few militant extremist nutters, does not equate to an entire religion being a death cult....

All of this, including the "Corruption Index", are all BIASED. There is no truth to any of these comparisons between countries. Human rights, corruption, literacy, age of consent.

It all depends of opinion which is overrun by the majority. And based on the so called "IQ" distribution, the majority of the world, around 98% has an IQ lower than 130.


Here are some examples[/s] of this Perception of Corruption Index:





There is no way a country like Singapore which has a democracy but in reality has a hereditary monarchy should be placed upon the top of the non-corrupt nations.





You cannot say that the world is overrun by Muslims because it is not.
The world is overrun by stupidity such as the recent threads here at ATS which are intentionally/unintentionally designed to arouse nationalism and hatred.



Does anyone here think they can provide a solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict that will satisfy U.S., Israel, and the Middle East? No, because this war of the millennium is meant to never end as long as we have radicals such as Zionsts and Jihadists and a world police, the U.S.A.


Who here has actually lived in an Muslim-dominated nation? If you have not then you cannot make ANY assumptions. This is what I learned, media and education propaganda is too strong. People here make so much pessimistic assumptions of Muslims and the Chinese that it has become unbearable to those two people.



In addition, what right do we have here to judge and interfere with an affair on the other side of the world? Do you REALLY think the people there wants you to make false impressions of them?

reply to post by Cadbury
Keep standing. I hope your not in a crowd when a member of a terrorist cell decides to blow himself and anyone around him to Kingdom Come. What you don't get, Cadbury, is that the authorities don't tell us everything they know, because it will blow the investigation right out of the water, and possibly get undercover officers killed.
Now you can live in a fantasy world if you choose, but I have found, especially as I have gotten older, that a little paranoia is healthy. Whcih is why I never leave my home unarmed, and always have a weapon within reach when I am at home.
If someone attacks me, or if there is a home invasion, they may kill me, but I will have an honor guard to escort me into hell!