I’m Sick Of The Anti Israel Sentiment Here On ATS!

reply to post by mikesingh


Hey mike, I'm really glad to hear you say all this, and thanks for spreading all the info.
I think a lot of people forget that Israel is fighting terrorists, not another country or government. Its pretty hard to negotiate with people that have no disregard for human life.
I am sorry for all the lives lost, on both sides, really, but I had to take a break from ATS and cool down a few days ago when all I saw when I logged on were biased and negative opinions about Israel.
All of this name calling is simply spreading more hate, and it sickens me.
Its like I logged on to a yahoo questions thread where anyone can post whatever they want without much or any evidence at all. I just expected a bit more here.
I suppose thats what happens when emotions get in the way.
Please ATS, lets not become part of the problem.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Well SO, its quite simple really.
Even if those opinions did reflect your own, you have a freedom of speech to say whatever you like.
Whats important is not what is said, but how to resolve it.
Tattletailing or making threats only causes more friction, and then that little bit of hatred turns into blind hate.
I say blind hate because at some point the real topic gets lost, and all thats left is name calling and regrettable statements back and forth.

To the poster:
Listen man, I feel your pain. Like I said earlier, I had to take a step back, catch my breath, and tackle the problem in a peaceful manner.
Make an example of yourself.
War is tricky, and a lot of people talk about things they have no idea about, especially on a site like this. Not everyone agrees with eachother.
But if you just wait a little, you start to see threads like Mike's here, taking the other side. Now there are many active topics supporting the Israelis.
Let people make up their own mind, show them the respect you want to be shown.
Present your argument.
Some people will listen, others will read up until they see you support Israel, skip the rest, and post an uneducated, racist response...
Just let it go. They will be the ones that look bad in the end. and even if they dont, well, at least you know where your heart is.

mikesingh
Why was Hamas indulging in this sort of brinkmanship? Why couldn’t they shut the heck up with their rockets fire and come to the negotiating table instead? They refused and continued to finger Israel. WHY?

Does anybody really know what the hell is going on when it comes to the war on terror, the middle east and specifically the war between Hamas and Israel? It's so easy for governments to engineer situations and manipulate people into taking their side. Who really knows what goes on behind the scenes and who is really responsible. Every government has a hidden agenda.

On Monday, a rocket fired from the Gaza Strip landed in an empty field
outside the southern Israeli city of Sderot, causing no casualty or
damage.

According to AFP, Zahar told a Gaza radio station that the party which
fired the rocket was "linked to Israel as they provide a pretext to
exercise pressure on the Palestinian people."

After the latest incident, Israel on Tuesday closed the Nahal Oz
crossing to Gaza Strip that is used to ferry in fuel and the Sufa
passage for food deliveries to the impoverished and blockaded
territory. On his part, MP Jamal Al-Khudari, the head of the popular
committee against the siege, strongly denounced Tuesday the Israeli
decision to close the crossings, noting that the Gaza commercial
crossings are already paralyzed despite the calm.
In June 2008, in an admission that he did not know who was firing
rockets from Gaza into Israel, Palestinian Prime Minister Ismail
Haniyeh appealed for "factions" to maintain the cease fire.


That agents of the state of Israel are behind much if not all of the
"Hamas rockets" is a reasonable conclusion and backed up by the
Israeli governments long term penchant for fabricating Muslim
terrorism.

For example:
Yemen seizes Israel-linked cell

BBC News
Oct 7th 2008

Yemeni President Ali Abdullah Saleh has said the security forces have
arrested a group of alleged Islamist militants linked to Israeli
intelligence.

Mr Saleh did not say what evidence had been found to show the group's
links with Israel, a regional enemy of Yemen.

The arrests were connected with an attack on the US embassy in Sanaa
last month which killed at least 18 people, official sources were
quoted saying.

Israel's foreign ministry has rejected the accusation as "totally
ridiculous".

"A terrorist cell was arrested and will be referred to the judicial
authorities for its links with the Israeli intelligence services," Mr
Saleh told a gathering at al-Mukalla University in Hadramawt province.
And from the Yemen Observer:
President Saleh revealed on Monday that security forces in Yemen
caught an espionage network for Israel made up of Arab nationals. This
announcement came during his speech in front of MP's, Shura Council
members, local council members, scholars and military and security
leaders at Hadhramout University.

According to the president the suspected spies will be brought before
the courts shortly in a public trial after investigations are
complete.

The network was comprised of 40 people from different Arab
nationalities spying for Mossad, the Israeli international
intelligence said sources from National and Political Security Units.
The members of the espionage network entered Yemen on the premise of
conducting business, tourism and even for preaching in mosques. Saleh
said that the suspected spies form a terrorism cell that uses also
Islam to reach their targets.

When it comes to the war on terror, nothing is black & white.

groups.google.com...

PROBLEM, REACTION, SOLUTION! - manipulation is a fine art!

www.indexoftheweb.com...

[edit on 6-1-2009 by kindred]

Wow, ATS is going crazy.

I love anti Zionist Jews
I do not love Zionists
I love the anti-Zionist Israeli's
I do not like the state of Israel

Am I still a "Jew Hater" ?

reply to post by mikesingh


"For starters, I'm not going back into history"

Why not - Is it because 'history' would negatively affect your argument?

*Well let's just go back 60 years then...



[edit on 6-1-2009 by Exuberant1]

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
This is a reminder to theindependentjournal that I'm looking for a response to his rather serious threat toward ATS and our members.

Is there a reason that you believe the contributions of our members in a free-flowing discussion environment reflect the editorial policies and/or management position of the owners of AboveTopSecret.com?

You see what I mean Skeptic Overlord...anytime anyone criticizes Israel, you get threatened...or labeled an anti-semite and what not.

Don't worry about this guy's particular threat, I doubt he's worth your time anyway man. He's just stirring the pot of hate.

And with respect, I'm also rather surprised by your generalization MikeSingh, perhaps the terror attacks in India influenced your opinion about Muslims? .. It's quite a shame the way extremists' actions in this world only serve to stereotype the religion they claim to represent. Anyhow, Muslims aren't looking to rule the world, America already does

[edit on 6/1/09 by Majorion]

Originally posted by lawlb0t
Wow, ATS is going crazy.

I love anti Zionist Jews
I do not love Zionists
I love the anti-Zionist Israeli's
I do not like the state of Israel

Am I still a "Jew Hater" ?

It isn't just ATS, it's forums the Internet over. This is a hot topic on many major boards.

I wouldn't call you a Jew hater, Zionism and Judaism differ anyway.
There's also a difference between bashing the state of Israel for defending it self, and ignoring the cause.
Regardless of what has happened in past, there was a ceasefire which Hamas agreed to and for the most part abided by, save the occasional rocket fired at Israel. Ceasefire expired, Hamas starts attacking Israel unprovoked.
Yes, unprovoked. The ceasefire had mostly worked, till it expired and Hamas said to hell with it and launched rocket attacks.

What people forget is that both sides can point the finger at each other over many wrongs done to one another. But this time, there was a ceasefire and short lived peaceful situation. Hamas chose to end it.

Do people even realise that if Hamas stops attacking Israel, Israel would have no reason to do what it does, no more missile strikes, no more checkpoints(eventual)????

Instead of condemning Israel, and feeding Hamas the sympathy and hatred for Israel that it craves and lives off, why not turn attention to what Hamas and the Palestinians can do, to end the cycle of violence? Because it really does start and end with them.

Originally posted by Retseh
I suppose that Israel should be content to just sit back and let their anti-semitic neighbors lob missiles into their towns and cities as part of their Sunday afternoon entertainment.

Actually, yes, they probably should, while working with the international community to work on a way to come to some peace without resorting to military attack.
Russia can get a man poisoned in London.
The CIA can infiltrate any organization on Earth.
AQ (if we accept what we are told) can infiltrate a population in large teams in order to attack select targets.
Britain and America have spies in every major organization on this planet.
War is not a way to adequately deal with a group of people within an innocent population.
It would be far more effective to pay less money than it costs to go to war to a select group trained to infiltrate a terrorist organization on the ground and destroy it from within. Thereby not killing hundreds of people and not creating another generation of people wanting to enact revenge on your country.

Originally posted by Retseh
They should also send more food and financial aid into Gaza, because you definitely want to help people who are actively trying to kill you every day.

Again, you are absolutely right.
Why are they trying to kill you? And how is killing more of them going to change their views?
A country not fighting another gains international support. It would show that their beliefs and wishes are only peaceful.
There are two options here...

1) Attack, kill hundreds (if not thousands) of innocent people. Anger thousands (if not millions) more. Create another generation of terrorists, so many that you will NEVER seemingly be safe from them.

2) Don't attack. Loose maybe a couple of dozen innocent civilians a year to these terrorists, but be the innocent nation. Refuse to attack under moral statements of peace and protecting the innocent civilians. Gain international support, and win over the hearts and minds of the people in Gaza. Show the next generation that you are not their enemy, no matter how much Hamas tries to tell them so. Don't do anything that will be considered an act of aggression.

Originally posted by Retseh
The reason that Americans are not at war with either Mexico or Canada is based on the fact that they do not randomly launch missiles at us with the full support of their general population.

I'd like to see the evidence you have to prove that Hamas works with the full support of the entire population.
Even suggesting that they do, why would this be? Perhaps because the country has been divided and taken from them over many years? Perhaps because their people are detained and imprisoned without charge for decades (if they are ever seen again)? Perhaps because aid and supplies are rationed by Israel?

Originally posted by Retseh
Israel is here to stay, the Arabs need to come to terms with that and so does the small legion of defiant Hamas supporters that regrettably call this site home.

You need to learn the difference between "Hamas supporter" and "person against mass slaughter"

I don't care how often the pro-Israel, anti Muslim, racist, xenophobic, religious bigots proclaim me to be a supporter of terrorism on this site. The fact is, Israel is currently murdering innocent women and children in a indiscriminate manner, without regard for anyone within Gaza. They are committing war crimes against a population and there is NEVER any excuse for that.

I don't care what religion you are, what blows your country has suffered, or how many of your own innocent civilians are killed. Israel is has no excuse for murdering people in this way, and trying to label those who say so as Hamas supporters is not going to make the actions of Israel any more acceptable.

reply to post by mikesingh

It’s beyond belief that so many threads and so many posters here on ATS are anti Israel.

Maybe because here on ATS people don't read only MSM ?
Maybe because people here try to get a different perspective on facts happening around the world?

In any case to say that because someone criticize israel is pro-jhiad...

Originally posted by theindependentjournal
reply to post by mikesingh

 

I have lost 4500 points trying to defend Israel from the Jew Haters on ATS but ATS loves the Jew Hating posts, even though it is a clear violation of their tos. They allow anyone that wants to to slander a race of people in there threads and I for one have started sending these threads to the ADL, JDL and other such groups.

ATS can remove my posts and take my points, hell they can ban me from their threads but til they do I will send copies of their JEW HATING NATURE to the JDL and such for proof of their racism and possible actions against ATS by the JDL.

They deserve nothing more than that considering everyone can see their slant against the Jews by their allowing racist posts against a whole people, ATS does not allow that about other races or peoples on their threads...

I am sick of extremists like you who are of opinion that you are either with Israel or you are with the terrorists. It's small-minded people like you, who have never been to the region and calling everyone who disagrees with the Israeli government a anti-Semite, Jew-hater or worse, that cause the hatred on this forum. What are you waiting for? You are free to leave ATS if you think it's such a miserable place, I, for one, won't shed a tear. Go complaining, I'd like to see some evidence as I am convinced that 99% of those who oppose the Israeli government don't hate Jews, Israelis or whatever retarded claim you come up with.


Ontopic now:

Firstly, I think that the Holy land should never have been given to Israel. The best solution would have been for Jews to return where they originally came from. I wouldn't have problems with having Jews as neighbors. Another solution would have been to transport all non-Jewish Americans from, for instance Texas, and establish a Jewish state there. However, the reality is that Israel exists and should continue to do so. Those who threaten Israel should be prevented from doing so. Personally, I would fully support Israel if a legit enemy would threaten its existence Arabs should, moreover, accept that the Israeli state exists.

Secondly, Hamas is a terrorist organization. No doubt about that. However, it was Israel that violated the truce early November while the truce was still in place, by bombing a tunnel. Whether you agree with that action or not, it's a fact that Israel did this but rarely mentioned in the mainstream media.

Thirdly, the US wanted fair elections in the Palestinian territories. Hamas ran to be elected and was democratically elected. After they had been elected, the US immediately stopped all aid to Palestine. Even though Hamas offered Israel to discuss a two-state solution Israel didn't even want to discuss that, instead they started to isolate them immediately, not giving peace a chance. Soon after, Gaza was fully sealed by puppet state Egypt and Israel with the motive to stop weapons from being smuggled into Gaza. Understandable, but I cannot disagree with sealing Gaza from medical aid and food supplies. Yes, every now and then a few trucks are allowed to enter Gaza, but that's by no means enough to supply all Gazans with food. Especially when taking into account that 80% of Gaza relies on food and medical aid and have an average aid of less than $2,-

Fourthly, why does Israel not have to obey international laws. You can come up with whatever excuse you have, no other country is allowed not to obey laws. As I mentioned before, the hypocritical US was first to condemn Russia for countering Georgia while the same country (US) fully supports Israel in countering Hamas. Why should Israel be allowed to be above the law? They can because the US and EU won't seriously condemn them anyway. The US will not because Israel has very much influence on US politics, mainstream media, etc., the EU will not because of guilt feelings from World War II.

Fifthly, I don't support the illegal settlements in Palestinian territories. If they really want peace, they should not allow settlers to build illegal settlements on the West bank and let settlers kill Palestinians while taking their land. The IDF builds fences around these settlements and hence, basically annexes the land to the state of Israel. Many families living in the south of the West Bank cannot even visit their families in the north of the West Bank, because the IDF doesn't allow them to use the roads and neither are they allowed to travel through these illegal settlements to the northern part of the West Bank and the other way around.

Sixthly, most of you who unanimously support Israel are either brainwashed by the mainstream media, have not been to the region, have ties with Israel or are Christian zealots who feel that the temple needs to be rebuild for the resurrection, therefore supporting Israel unanimously. I am not saying that supporting Israel is wrong, supporting them unanimously is wrong, because this conflict is slightly more nuanced than 'Israel is all good or all Palestinians are terrorists'.

Seventhly, many Americans seem to have the stereotypic idea that all Palestinians are terrorists. Most Palestinians are just like you and me and want to live in their country Palestine, peacefully alongside Israel. Another reason why a two-state solution should be realized as soon as possible. Israel largely controls the US media and therefore continues to present their ''enemy'', the Palestinians as terrorists, giving Americans the idea that the majority of Palestinians are really terrorists.

Eightly, Kadima supports the ideology of a greater Israel, which doesn't make it surprising that the Israeli government could very well want the Palestinians to move to other Arab countries, so they can take their land.

Last, I don't support Hamas and their terroristic attacks on Israel nor is Israel blameless. Yet, those who think to have the knowledge are too shortsighted to see that. Instead, they think the situation is as follows: Hamas doesn't like Israel, they want to kill all Jews and are therefore firing missiles into Israel. As explained above, the conflict is slightly more complex than the mainstream media wants you to believe.

Either educate yourself on it or travel there yourself to find out both parties are to blame or remain stupid and watch Fox News while believing that Israel is all good and Palestine all bad.

[edit on 6 Jan 2009 by neformore]

reply to post by mikesingh


Yes... These are all Muslim propaganda and they are ALLLL actors, and using special effects and fake blood just to herd the gullibles into thinking the Israelis evil while in fact they are angelic, good mannered and wonderful regime.

Oh how the muslim world has lied to the world by using child actors (pretending to be dead) and actors worthy of the top hollywood awards acting out pretending to be sorrowful of their dead loved ones?

FAKES!

Thank you mikesingh for pointing that out to me!

Star and flagged! Star and flagged!


[edit on 6-1-2009 by SkepticalSpectacle]

reply to post by mikesingh

AAC, but why is there so much bias against Israel in the posts? Why not against the Hamas and other terrorist organizations?

Because everyone knows what Hamas is like,its shouted from the roof tops on a regular basis.Not so with the Israeli government.

reply to post by downtown436


"Our goal is clear - to wipe Israel off the map." - President Aref of Iraq - May 31 1967

In the words of the immortal, celluloid Kurt Steiner 'I have nothing for, or against, the Jews...' but your truly astounding ignorance has forced me to reply. We can all get millennia silly about who was there first, who has the greatest claim to the land etc., but from a modern history perspective the founding of the Jewish State in 1948 started with a literal bang as neighbouring Arab Islamic States tried to destroy it from the off. See also The Six Day War (1967) (which saw the accession of the currently disputed territories), Yom Kippur (1973). Israel exists as a homeland for people who have existed there for thousands of years, and as a unifying target of aggression for states unified by religious homogeneity. The requirement for a Palestinian State is an obvious truth, but is often used as an excuse at Sovereign State level to target Israel, and the sooner it becomes a reality then that drum will no longer be there for the banging.

The main problem now is one of essentially internal conflict within the Judeo-Palestinian lands, and the heavy handed response from Israel in what it deems as it's right of defence against an enemy (Hamas) which functions as an organisation at 'war' with Israel, but which operates purposefully within the folds of the Palestinian population it declares it is fighting for. If you constantly provoke an entity at some point it's frustration will boil over and sense will be overtaken by the determination of rage. Once that happens it is very hard to pull back from the see-saw of reciprocity we're all so sickeningly familiar with.

Arab summit conference in Khartoum during August 29 ­ September 1, 1967, formulated the Khartoum Resolutions. It stated: no peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel and no negotiations with Israel.

Originally posted by Majorion
And with respect, I'm also rather surprised by your generalization MikeSingh, perhaps the terror attacks in India influenced your opinion about Muslims? It's quite a shame the way extremists' actions in this world only serve to stereotype the religion they claim to represent. Anyhow, Muslims aren't looking to rule the world, America already does

Maj, as far as I’m concerned, religion is an outdated concept. I’m not Christian, Muslim, Hindu, or a follower of any of the other myriad religions. Over the centuries it’s brought nothing but war, mayhem, destruction and bloodshed. I’m not an atheist either but I do believe in the concept of humanism. Which is:

’A rational philosophy informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by compassion. Affirming the dignity of each human being, it supports the maximization of individual liberty and opportunity consonant with social and planetary responsibility. It advocates the extension of participatory democracy and the expansion of the open society, standing for human rights and social justice.’

And that’s my religion. And probably the way forward. But looking at the present chaos the world is in, it would take perhaps another few thousand years for humanity to rise above this religious bigotry and attain a higher level of consciousness. And that’s when we can truly call ourselves a Type 1 civilization.

Until then, it’s the mullahs and the self styled religious priests and preachers who will rule the roost, leaving us to stew in their obnoxious juices.

This is MY personal opinion. If religious sentiments have been hurt, then I apologize.



Quote from: AHA. The voice of human science.

reply to post by xmotex


You are trying to establish some kind of moral equivalence to this situation. You are trying to 'rise above' the argument. That attitude is elitist snobbery at its best. However, it is academic laziness. To say that both sides are evil and at fault, implies an attitude of indifference, which solves nothing except preserving your air of moral superiority, based on all things being relative. Translation: your feet are firmly planted in mid-air!

reply to post by TheNoSpinZone


Here! Here! Right on! Amen! Thank you for your contribution...this is needed on ATS! Common sense - gotta love it!

reply to post by mikesingh

Maj, as far as I’m concerned, religion is an outdated concept. I’m not Christian, Muslim, Hindu, or a follower of any of the other myriad religions. Over the centuries it’s brought nothing but war, mayhem, destruction and bloodshed. I’m not an atheist either but I do believe in the concept of humanism

I pretty much consider religion in the same manner you do Mike Religion HAS become outdated let's be honest, but my problem with this thread is in the apparent support of Israel.

Israel is an extremist state who go out of their way to terrorize the Palestinians, let's just leave Hamas out of this subject for a minute..and look at what Israel is doing to their neighbors...

Did you know that the Israeli air force's jets send fliers down to the city stating that they either leave their homes or be destroyed in the process? Now how would you feel if someone did that to you?..kick you out of your own house and if you don't leave then you'll be killed. Assuming you comply with them..Where do you even go?? ... I suppose that's what they mean by "specific targets".

Now back to Hamas... I'm not defending their actions, but I do understand them. There was never really a ceasefire! Israel constantly harass, assault, assassinate and violate the Palestinians every single day of the year anyway. If you were in such a position..wouldn't you resist or retaliate?

Anyhow this topic is bringing out the worst of people, or at least some strong emotions. No offense intended peeps if I've said anything. I wish this topic would just come to an end and be done with it.

Take care Mike,

And peace all,

Majorion

[edit on 6/1/09 by Majorion]

I don't hate jews, I do hate the lying terrorist state of israel. They would like the people to believe there the victims,when in fact they are a just another sovereign nation. Here is proof that the rockets from gaza are not a true threat.
www.disclose.tv...

And personally I don't give a bad weather you like what I have to say or not,I'm sick and tired of the zionist propaganda bull shot which is my favorite drink.

Oh, by the way if your sick of the anti israel sentiment don't worry your precious little head and read it or stay away. Thats my thought on your post.

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[edit on 6/1/2009 by Mirthful Me]